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Commercial Crew Transportation Capability (CCtCap) SpaceX and Boeing developments

Discussion in 'SpaceX' started by Grendal, May 12, 2016.

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  1. Bobfitz1

    Bobfitz1 Active Member

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    I'm happy Commercial Crew (especially SpaceX) is going well. However watching a slick NASA video on how well 'their' CC program is going just reminds that NASA didn't start a CC (or anything else) a few years before the Shuttle had to be retired. Their lack of responsible planning led to the U.S. having to pay Russia billions to ferry our astronauts to ISS for nearly ten years.
     
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  2. Grendal

    Grendal SpaceX Moderator

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    It's not NASA. It's Congress. Congress tells NASA where their money is spent and Congress has delayed CC for years by not funding the program. If it were up to NASA then the SLS and Orion programs would get a lot less money and they would spend their budget on the programs they know work. NASA does not get that choice. We're lucky they got enough to get us this far.
     
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  3. Bobfitz1

    Bobfitz1 Active Member

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    Thanks for correcting who was responsible for the fiasco. Did the major aerospace companies used by NASA, lobby Congress against CC because they wanted to continue the same very lucrative contracting arrangements for NASA they'd enjoyed for decades? Even though there was insufficient political support for spending the sums needed to develop Shuttle replacement hardware?
     
  4. ecarfan

    ecarfan Well-Known Member

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    Speaking only for myself, at this point I don’t care about who delayed CC or who lobbied who. What I care about is that it seems likely that later this year American companies will be flying humans to LEO. Finally. Once that capability is established, that is a big step forward for taking humans beyond LEO!
     
  5. bxr140

    bxr140 Active Member

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    I dream of a day when it doesn’t matter who’s rocket launches who into space...
     
  6. Grendal

    Grendal SpaceX Moderator

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    Latest update from NASA:
    NASA’s Commercial Crew Program Target Test Flight Dates – Commercial Crew Program

    The next generation of American spacecraft and rockets that will launch astronauts to the International Space Station are nearing the final stages of development and evaluation. NASA’s Commercial Crew Program will return human spaceflight launches to U.S. soil, providing reliable and cost-effective access to low-Earth orbit on systems that meet our safety and mission requirements. To meet NASA’s requirements, the commercial providers must demonstrate that their systems are ready to begin regular flights to the space station. Two of those demonstrations are uncrewed flight tests, known as Orbital Flight Test for Boeing, and Demonstration Mission 1 for SpaceX. After the uncrewed flight tests, both companies will execute a flight test with crew prior to being certified by NASA for crew rotation missions. The following schedule reflects the most recent publicly releasable dates for both providers.

    Targeted Test Flight Dates:
    Boeing Orbital Flight Test (uncrewed): August 2018
    Boeing Crew Flight Test (crewed): November 2018
    SpaceX Demonstration Mission 1 (uncrewed): August 2018
    SpaceX Demonstration Mission 2 (crewed): December 2018
     
    • Informative x 1
  7. Nikxice

    Nikxice Active Member

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    Interesting. Now Boeing with the slight lead. Well this race ain't over yet!
     
  8. mongo

    mongo Well-Known Member

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    Have you watched Space Race from the BBC (currently on Netflix)? So much competition with milestones happening within one month of each other.
     
    • Informative x 1
  9. ecarfan

    ecarfan Well-Known Member

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    Both company’s schedules continue to slip. Who knows if either will fly manned mission in 2018. Disappointing.
     
  10. Nikxice

    Nikxice Active Member

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    Some sobering news concerning manned flight delays. The GAO now thinks SpaceX certification could slip to December 2019, Boeing out to February 2020. Both companies are making progress on NASA safety concerns, but a lot of work remains. I'd previously seen a 1/270 ratio for acceptable LOC risk. The Bill Harwood article I've linked below discusses 1/500 for ascent/entry and 1/200 for a 210 day mission. The article isn't specific concerning the 1/200 ratio, it only refers to possible spacecraft issues. I've previously read that long duration missions have been calculated to carry a much higher risk primarily due to threats from micrometeoriods or orbital debris.
    Lawmakers question safety, schedule for Boeing/SpaceX commercial crew ships – Spaceflight Now
     
  11. ecarfan

    ecarfan Well-Known Member

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    I am leaning towards the explanation that the postponements are more due to NASA obsessing over reducing the failure rate to unrealistically low levels than to SpaceX or Boeing issues.
     
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    • Disagree x 1
  12. AudubonB

    AudubonB One can NOT induce accuracy with precision!

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    ...talk about obsessing.....

    :p
     
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  13. Grendal

    Grendal SpaceX Moderator

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    Meeting with Congress. The video doesn't even begin until 22:00 in:
     
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  14. Bobfitz1

    Bobfitz1 Active Member

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    Talk about holding others to a higher standard than you do yourself.
     
  15. e-FTW

    e-FTW New electron smell

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    Took me a while to get to it, but that was an interesting watch. Especially to get a better understanding of procurement of crew capabilities and how NASA juggles its responsibilities to Congress, and how they deal with their private partners.
     
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  16. Grendal

    Grendal SpaceX Moderator

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    Here's an article about the current administrations plan for the ISS. Not too surprising since NASA has been targeting 2024. That's five or more years of commercial crew revenue for SpaceX. The current contract includes one manned test flight and two more official launches. That will probably cover 2019 and possibly one flight in 2020. So probably two of these and five or six CRS missions every year is a good and reliable revenue stream for the company.
    Trump administration wants to end NASA funding for the International Space Station by 2025
     
  17. jkn

    jkn Member

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    2025 BFR can build new bigger station. Start by parking a BFS into orbit. It has life support for trip to Mars.
     
  18. Grendal

    Grendal SpaceX Moderator

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    Commercial Crew update came out today. Lots of big information covered on their bullet point cards:
    ComCrew.jpg
    ComCrew2.jpg
    ComCrew3.jpg
     
    • Informative x 5
  19. e-FTW

    e-FTW New electron smell

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    Is COPV 2.0 a NASA requirement following the Amos-5 incident?
     
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  20. Grendal

    Grendal SpaceX Moderator

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    Yes. Along with a lot of other things mentioned. So this confirms the demands NASA made with Commercial Crew have been implemented and, more importantly, thoroughly tested: the new turbopump blades and improved COPV. Octoweb 3.0 is one of the major changes to allow for multiple reuse. Full burns and testing of the block 5 Merlins is another big thing.
     
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