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Commuter Cars - Tango
- Thread starter tonybelding
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- Electric Vehicles
That's cool. Jorg has been good about sharing his enthusiasm.
Yes, the gearbox is noisy, particularly for back seat passengers, although Jorg says that his seems more noisy than it should be based on other ones he test drove.
Also, when you corner fast in it, it leans quite a bit, but all 4 wheels stay firmly on the ground due to the very low center of gravity (heavy batteries under the floor). Someone calls it a "weeble" because it wobbles but doesn't fall down!
I thought the handling was "spooky". It concerned me what would happen when you finally broke traction. Maybe it is OK once you get used to it being different, but it felt (to me) like it might be dangerous in some situations.
Yes, the gearbox is noisy, particularly for back seat passengers, although Jorg says that his seems more noisy than it should be based on other ones he test drove.
Also, when you corner fast in it, it leans quite a bit, but all 4 wheels stay firmly on the ground due to the very low center of gravity (heavy batteries under the floor). Someone calls it a "weeble" because it wobbles but doesn't fall down!
I thought the handling was "spooky". It concerned me what would happen when you finally broke traction. Maybe it is OK once you get used to it being different, but it felt (to me) like it might be dangerous in some situations.
stopcrazypp
Well-Known Member
graham
Active Member
That sure beats shoveling!
If I ever move to snowy climes again, I think I will avoid trying that with the roadster. Unless it has the hard top on. :smile:
If I ever move to snowy climes again, I think I will avoid trying that with the roadster. Unless it has the hard top on. :smile:
Commuter Cars
I couldn't find the/a thread specifically for commuter cars and the tango, so I'm starting a new one. I got the following email from commuter cars this morning and checked out their showing in berkeley.
Latest Orange Tango on Tour
Posted: 26 Sep 2009 08:50 AM PDT
This orange Tango, the last one completed to date will be on tour at various times from the end of September until the beginning of November. Anyone who is interested in a T600 and on the rout or near one of the destinations should send me an email or call for an appointment.
[email protected]
509-979-1815
Current Event Schedule:
Berkeley Telegraph Ave. Street Fair: Sunday, Sept. 27th, 11:00 am to 7:00 pm
Santa Monica Alt Car Expo: Friday and Saturday, Oct. 2 & 3, from 10 - 5
New York, NY: October 19
Las Vegas, NV: November 1-3
A couple of the photos I took of Tango #10:
Some things I learned from talking with the Owner:
-This is the 10th completed car.
-He began the whole process about 10 years ago.
-He had a couple of companies agree to build the cars for him, one under contract to build the first one for over $300,000 and to build the rest for $60,000, but both companies backed out (I don't recall the names of the companies).
-The current version of the tango goes for about $130,000, the next generation is targeted for about $50,000, the third generation- $30,000.
I couldn't find the/a thread specifically for commuter cars and the tango, so I'm starting a new one. I got the following email from commuter cars this morning and checked out their showing in berkeley.
Latest Orange Tango on Tour
Posted: 26 Sep 2009 08:50 AM PDT
This orange Tango, the last one completed to date will be on tour at various times from the end of September until the beginning of November. Anyone who is interested in a T600 and on the rout or near one of the destinations should send me an email or call for an appointment.
[email protected]
509-979-1815
Current Event Schedule:
Berkeley Telegraph Ave. Street Fair: Sunday, Sept. 27th, 11:00 am to 7:00 pm
Santa Monica Alt Car Expo: Friday and Saturday, Oct. 2 & 3, from 10 - 5
New York, NY: October 19
Las Vegas, NV: November 1-3
A couple of the photos I took of Tango #10:
Some things I learned from talking with the Owner:
-This is the 10th completed car.
-He began the whole process about 10 years ago.
-He had a couple of companies agree to build the cars for him, one under contract to build the first one for over $300,000 and to build the rest for $60,000, but both companies backed out (I don't recall the names of the companies).
-The current version of the tango goes for about $130,000, the next generation is targeted for about $50,000, the third generation- $30,000.
Thanks for the update.
Some old Tango threads:
http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/electric-vehicles/684-update-tango.html
http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/electric-vehicles/731-old-tango-video.html
Some old Tango threads:
http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/electric-vehicles/684-update-tango.html
http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/electric-vehicles/731-old-tango-video.html
Jay Leno does the electric Tango [w/VIDEO] — Autoblog Green
The Baker electric comes out again.
The Baker electric comes out again.
Range wise Li-ion batteries are a nice improvement. I wonder if they've heavy enough on their own. That vehicle needs a lot of low positioned ballast mass.
When I rode in the Tango at Alt car this year I asked Richard about the weight difference with Lith batteries. He said he is making 2 inch lead plates to put on he bottom of the car.
I wish I could remember the weight of the lead. 800? 2000lbs?
New email from commuter cars:
Tango: A Progressive Automotive X-Prize Finalist
Posted: 02 Aug 2010 06:55 PM PDT
The Tango was never designed to be the most fuel-efficient car in the world. To do that, safety and rollover threshold would be compromised. The fact that the 3,300-pound Tango made it to finals in the Automotive X-Prize competition is quite remarkable.
Following is the official data from the efficiency event. Note that although the Tango was less than 1% short of the required MPGe to go to Argonne for the Validation Stage, it needed 104 MPGe, because of the emissions requirement. They use a national grid average to calculate the emissions from creating the electricity for the grid. It's obviously very unfair when considering solar charging, but even if the California or Washington grids were used because of the predominance of hydro and natural gas, it would not be an issue. It's all of the electricity generated from coal that skews it against EVs.
Following is a breakdown of the Tango's efficiency for each cycle independently.
89.07 MPGe. (387.269 Wh/mi.)
This was a combined Urban, City, and Highway cycle.
The Urban Cycle was 74.34 MPGe (464.75 Wh/mi.)
It was 16 miles of start and stop many times per lap at lower speeds.
The City cycle was 58.86 MPGe (586 Wh/mi.)
This was 30 miles of acceleration to 50 mph and brake twice per lap, and then 40 mph in-between. It's a 2-mile oval.
As you can see, the starts and stops w/o regen and a 3,300-lb car really hurt efficiency. The motorcycles that competed in our class were getting 180 to 200 MPGe, but only weigh 1,300 lbs. The way the rules were written, there was no way to beat them.
The Highway Cycle was 112.21 MPGe (307 Wh/mi.)
This was 90 miles of 50 mph, but stopping once every 5 laps (10 miles).
All of the above Wh/mi calculations are reading from the meter on the wall, and includes all inefficiencies including losses at charging and at the cells.
During the Urban Cycle, I had to run the A/C constantly. The rules were that if the cabin temp exceeded 95°, a full penalty lap would be added. In the driver's meeting, they pleaded with us to follow the rules and not allow cabin temp to rise above that limit. The other teams in our class did not run A/C. One or two used buckets of ice to keep their cabins cool. Many of the teams went to the competition with cars built especially to win the competition, so the purpose of the competition, to provide vehicles that people want to drive, was virtually ignored in many cases
Durability was an event at Shakedown. It was 40 miles of the roughest track you can imagine. I was within 2 seconds per lap of the fastest car which was a Factory-5 electric race car. I had a blast driving lap after lap pushing the limit at every turn, and then rewarded by never having to stop. I lapped all the other cars in my group several times.
In the finals Range Test, I ran out of juice at 99 miles. I was half way around the final lap when I ran out. I heard that the temperature was recorded at 120° on the lawn that afternoon. I ran with A/C on full blast, but it seemed to lose efficiency. The evaporator might have frozen up. In any event, drawing 8 amps for nearly 2 hours ate up 5 kWhrs or 20 miles of range. I thought that I had plenty of margin, but miscalculated. Being eliminated because of efficiency, I didn't have a lot to lose, and thought that I could at least run the 100 miles without cabin temp penalty. So 49 1/2 laps is all she wrote with the A/C compressor running at 6,500 rpm.
The final event was a tie-breaker for all of the teams that made it through the qualification runs. It was run at any speed between 45 and 70 mph, but had a very tight chicane midway around the track. They let me run with the other eliminated cars in a demonstration run. Driving at 60 to 65 mph, I lapped every other car at least 3 times in my group during the 100 miles, which I finished with 10% of charge remaining. Luckily, it was not so hot so I never ran the A/C.
I got exactly 100 MPGe on that run of 100 miles using 34 kWhrs, or 340 Wh/Mi at the meter and had 10% state of charge left at the end.
Those of us that were eliminated also got to run the acceleration, braking, and emergency lane change events as a demonstration class. The Tango passed these with huge margins.
David Champion, Director of Consumer Reports Automotive Testing said that I had the fastest time of any of the cars in the X-Prize competition by running the emergency lane change at 51 mph. The test had to be completed at 45 mph to pass. I passed the test on the first try at knockout, but forgot that there was a camera attached on the side at the finals and took out a cone (and the camera) on the first run. The second was at 51 mph.
The CO2 numbers for the national grid today have little to do with CA where many times more EVs will be sold than elsewhere in the country, and doesn't account for the fact that the grid gets cleaner every year with added wind, solar, and even improvements to coal burning plants.
All in all, the Automotive X-Prize competition was a very worthwhile event. I look forward to the awards ceremony at the White House on September 16, where I'll be with the Tango, the winners of the 3 prizes, and the other finalists.
Tango: A Progressive Automotive X-Prize Finalist
Posted: 02 Aug 2010 06:55 PM PDT
The Tango was never designed to be the most fuel-efficient car in the world. To do that, safety and rollover threshold would be compromised. The fact that the 3,300-pound Tango made it to finals in the Automotive X-Prize competition is quite remarkable.
Following is the official data from the efficiency event. Note that although the Tango was less than 1% short of the required MPGe to go to Argonne for the Validation Stage, it needed 104 MPGe, because of the emissions requirement. They use a national grid average to calculate the emissions from creating the electricity for the grid. It's obviously very unfair when considering solar charging, but even if the California or Washington grids were used because of the predominance of hydro and natural gas, it would not be an issue. It's all of the electricity generated from coal that skews it against EVs.
Following is a breakdown of the Tango's efficiency for each cycle independently.
89.07 MPGe. (387.269 Wh/mi.)
This was a combined Urban, City, and Highway cycle.
The Urban Cycle was 74.34 MPGe (464.75 Wh/mi.)
It was 16 miles of start and stop many times per lap at lower speeds.
The City cycle was 58.86 MPGe (586 Wh/mi.)
This was 30 miles of acceleration to 50 mph and brake twice per lap, and then 40 mph in-between. It's a 2-mile oval.
As you can see, the starts and stops w/o regen and a 3,300-lb car really hurt efficiency. The motorcycles that competed in our class were getting 180 to 200 MPGe, but only weigh 1,300 lbs. The way the rules were written, there was no way to beat them.
The Highway Cycle was 112.21 MPGe (307 Wh/mi.)
This was 90 miles of 50 mph, but stopping once every 5 laps (10 miles).
All of the above Wh/mi calculations are reading from the meter on the wall, and includes all inefficiencies including losses at charging and at the cells.
During the Urban Cycle, I had to run the A/C constantly. The rules were that if the cabin temp exceeded 95°, a full penalty lap would be added. In the driver's meeting, they pleaded with us to follow the rules and not allow cabin temp to rise above that limit. The other teams in our class did not run A/C. One or two used buckets of ice to keep their cabins cool. Many of the teams went to the competition with cars built especially to win the competition, so the purpose of the competition, to provide vehicles that people want to drive, was virtually ignored in many cases
Durability was an event at Shakedown. It was 40 miles of the roughest track you can imagine. I was within 2 seconds per lap of the fastest car which was a Factory-5 electric race car. I had a blast driving lap after lap pushing the limit at every turn, and then rewarded by never having to stop. I lapped all the other cars in my group several times.
In the finals Range Test, I ran out of juice at 99 miles. I was half way around the final lap when I ran out. I heard that the temperature was recorded at 120° on the lawn that afternoon. I ran with A/C on full blast, but it seemed to lose efficiency. The evaporator might have frozen up. In any event, drawing 8 amps for nearly 2 hours ate up 5 kWhrs or 20 miles of range. I thought that I had plenty of margin, but miscalculated. Being eliminated because of efficiency, I didn't have a lot to lose, and thought that I could at least run the 100 miles without cabin temp penalty. So 49 1/2 laps is all she wrote with the A/C compressor running at 6,500 rpm.
The final event was a tie-breaker for all of the teams that made it through the qualification runs. It was run at any speed between 45 and 70 mph, but had a very tight chicane midway around the track. They let me run with the other eliminated cars in a demonstration run. Driving at 60 to 65 mph, I lapped every other car at least 3 times in my group during the 100 miles, which I finished with 10% of charge remaining. Luckily, it was not so hot so I never ran the A/C.
I got exactly 100 MPGe on that run of 100 miles using 34 kWhrs, or 340 Wh/Mi at the meter and had 10% state of charge left at the end.
Those of us that were eliminated also got to run the acceleration, braking, and emergency lane change events as a demonstration class. The Tango passed these with huge margins.
David Champion, Director of Consumer Reports Automotive Testing said that I had the fastest time of any of the cars in the X-Prize competition by running the emergency lane change at 51 mph. The test had to be completed at 45 mph to pass. I passed the test on the first try at knockout, but forgot that there was a camera attached on the side at the finals and took out a cone (and the camera) on the first run. The second was at 51 mph.
The CO2 numbers for the national grid today have little to do with CA where many times more EVs will be sold than elsewhere in the country, and doesn't account for the fact that the grid gets cleaner every year with added wind, solar, and even improvements to coal burning plants.
All in all, the Automotive X-Prize competition was a very worthwhile event. I look forward to the awards ceremony at the White House on September 16, where I'll be with the Tango, the winners of the 3 prizes, and the other finalists.
Fun video:
Video: Translogic proves funky Tango isn't just on the straight and narrow Autoblog Green
Now costs $150K. I love this car and would love to see them on the road, just way too expensive.
Video: Translogic proves funky Tango isn't just on the straight and narrow Autoblog Green
Now costs $150K. I love this car and would love to see them on the road, just way too expensive.
