Companies that install and operate charge points.

[MontyFloyd]

I am helping a friend (really!) get chargers at their business for customers (get on the map, and this map too).

I am looking at Tesla (first recommendation, and yes, did send application), but wonder about others.

I found Blink, Electrify America, and EVgo, and is that it? (ChargePoint seems only device and business, not public facilities)

Any pitfall need to know about?
How long to expect?
Costs?
Gov incentives? (which ones?)
What else?
Is there companies that do this, regardless of the type of charger you choose?


The more I study this, the more details I am finding about process.
(PS, they will likely get a Tesla as well)

 

[Rocky_H]

I found Blink, Electrify America, and EVgo, and is that it? (ChargePoint seems only device and business, not public facilities)

The neverending pile of charging network companies. If you go to Plugshare, it has a list of 24 charging networks you can include or exclude. Here are some others you haven't mentioned yet.

Semaconnect (used to be called Semacharge I think)

EV Charging Stations-SemaConnect Network

semaconnect.com

Webasto (horrible name. Used to be called Aerovironment, which sounded cool. They have the West Coast Electric Highway, which is a network throughout Washington and Oregon.)

Webasto Smart Charging Stations for Business and Home Users

charging.webasto.com

Greenlots (This is a big one)

Shell Recharge Solutions

Shell Recharge Solutions is unlocking the future of mobility. Learn how we are shaping electric mobility using our EV charging solutions.

greenlots.com

Opconnect

EV Charging Network - Sustainable Transportation | OP Connec

OpConnect offers comprehensive EV charging solutions, including planning, installation, and ongoing support. Our cloud-based software platform and robust charging infrastructure integrate seamlessly with your existing fleet management systems.

www.opconnect.com

Sun Country (mostly in Canada, but I think have a little bit in the U.S.)

Sun Country Highway - Bringing Sustainability to Life

Sun Country Highway is fostering the change to emission free transportation by creating the infrastructure to support EV adoption.

suncountryhighway.ca

Volta

Volta Charging - The most utilized EV Charging Stations

Volta delivers EV charging solutions to property owners, power to the electric vehicle community and impactful brand stories to everyone.

voltacharging.com

Flo (interesting thing with this one is that in Canada, where there were some regulations requiring standards-compliant charging co-located with proprietary, Tesla got Flo stations put in at the same place as some of their Superchargers.)

EV Charging Stations For The US And Canada | FLO

FLO is a leader in electric vehicle charging, offering a selection of reliable EV charging stations and a coast-to-coast network with 98% uptime.

www.flo.com

There are several others that I see listed in Plugshare, but I don't know much about, like GE Wattstation, Ivy, Petro-Canada, myEVRoute, Circuit Electrique, etc.

 

[srs5694]

The main reason to go with one of the big networks (ChargePoint, Blink, etc.) is if you want to bill for the electrcity. If it's to be given away free (as it is with most Tesla Destination Charging locations), then an easier and cheaper solution might be to install a solid non-networked EVSE, like a Clipper Creek unit. I own one of these myself, and I see them frequently at hotels, mostly because Tesla distributes (or used to distribute) them along with Wall Connectors to sites that wanted two or more Tesla Wall Connectors. I've seen other industrial-strength non-networked EVSEs, too, but I don't recall any brand names, offhand. Some have fancy features like retracting cables.

 

[MontyFloyd]

The main reason to go with one of the big networks (ChargePoint, Blink, etc.) is if you want to bill for the electrcity. If it's to be given away free (as it is with most Tesla Destination Charging locations), then an easier and cheaper solution might be to install a solid non-networked EVSE, like a Clipper Creek unit. I own one of these myself, and I see them frequently at hotels, mostly because Tesla distributes (or used to distribute) them along with Wall Connectors to sites that wanted two or more Tesla Wall Connectors. I've seen other industrial-strength non-networked EVSEs, too, but I don't recall any brand names, offhand. Some have fancy features like retracting cables.

ChargePoint seems more like a station servicing company, not one who installs stations. (other seem to do both).

Thanks for Clipper Creek link, that sounds like simpler start.


PS, you know of any networked charger that is not Wi-Fi?

 

[Rocky_H]

ChargePoint seems more like a station servicing company, not one who installs stations. (other seem to do both).

I really don't understand where you would get that idea. ChargePoint installs their own stations and runs a billing network for theirs just like Blink, EVGo, Greenlots, etc. ChargePoint is actually I think the largest of those.

Something that is interesting is that some of these companies are running roaming agreements, like the cell phone companies used to do. So you could use a Chargepoint account to activate a session on a Greenlots station or one of the others.

 

[MontyFloyd]

I really don't understand where you would get that idea. ChargePoint installs their own stations and runs a billing network for theirs just like Blink, EVGo, Greenlots, etc. ChargePoint is actually I think the largest of those.

Then it is hard to find how to submit application to host a unit, others are obvious.
I guess this is the contact point.

 

[SarahsDad]

If not billing, I agree with the earlier recommendation for Clipper Creek. I have a CC HCS-40R at my beach rental home and it has worked perfectly for 4 years. Doesn't require Wi-Fi connection and is "free to use". I had a local electrician install it.

If billing, ChargePoint would be my choice. Pretty good turnkey solution from what I can tell - I've charged at several of these in the past without difficulty. CT4000 Family | ChargePoint

And yes businesses qualify for tax credit. Federal Tax Credit Resources | ChargePoint

Of course these are both J1772 connectors.

Get the Tesla destination charger first!

 

[miimura]

ChargePoint seems more like a station servicing company, not one who installs stations. (other seem to do both).

Thanks for Clipper Creek link, that sounds like simpler start.


PS, you know of any networked charger that is not Wi-Fi?

ChargePoint CT4000 has Wi-Fi and LTE. ChargePoint CPF50 (Multi-Family type) is Wi-Fi but requires a LTE gateway for each 9 stations. ChargePoint monthly fees are relatively high.

 

[MontyFloyd]

related topic note to self

supercharge.info

Zoomable Tesla supercharger map with adjustable range indicator.

supercharge.info

 

[RTPEV]

related topic note to self

supercharge.info

Zoomable Tesla supercharger map with adjustable range indicator.

supercharge.info

...and I am working on creating a non-Tesla offshoot of this site (fast chargers only--it seems like you are likely more interested in L2 charging):

fastcharger.info

 

[MontyFloyd]

...and I am working on creating a non-Tesla offshoot of this site (fast chargers only--it seems like you are likely more interested in L2 charging):

fastcharger.info

Great job!

Person I am helping has a budget. If the L2 gets the traffic, then might go L3 (unless Tesla or other steps in)

 

[IronQQQ]

ChargePoint CT4000 has Wi-Fi and LTE. ChargePoint CPF50 (Multi-Family type) is Wi-Fi but requires a LTE gateway for each 9 stations. ChargePoint monthly fees are relatively high.

I just got off the phone with a Chargepoint rep as I am selecting equipment to replace and install at my workplace. The Chargepoint fees are high IMHO. Their CT4000 machines are bricks without a software subscription. Subscriptions are charged per port and can be paid annual of prepaid in 5 year chunks.

Annual: $329 per port.
5 Year: $263 per year, per port, prepaid = $1315

Personally I'm not a fan of this recurring cost just to use their software, even if I don't need billing services. All I need is local control of who and who can't charge.

They also have a subscription model as well, where they supply the equipment, cover all the maintenance and software costs. $2040 per year for dual ports and $1500 for single ports.

 

[miimura]

I just got off the phone with a Chargepoint rep as I am selecting equipment to replace and install at my workplace. The Chargepoint fees are high IMHO. Their CT4000 machines are bricks without a software subscription. Subscriptions are charged per port and can be paid annual of prepaid in 5 year chunks.

Annual: $329 per port.
5 Year: $263 per year, per port, prepaid = $1315

Personally I'm not a fan of this recurring cost just to use their software, even if I don't need billing services. All I need is local control of who and who can't charge.

They also have a subscription model as well, where they supply the equipment, cover all the maintenance and software costs. $2040 per year for dual ports and $1500 for single ports.

Did you inquire about their CPF50 system fees? If you could pay the $329/yr per gateway with 9 slave stations, that would be much more palatable.

 

[IronQQQ]

Did you inquire about their CPF50 system fees? If you could pay the $329/yr per gateway with 9 slave stations, that would be much more palatable.

wow... Thank you. I'm looking at it now. The equipment seems much cheaper too and it's a cleaner look (IMHO)... and it appears to be able to deliver 40 amps (50 amp circuit) which is way faster than the 30 amp max of the CT4000. I'm asking the rep to get back to me. I could much better sell $329 prepaid for 5 years.. at around $1600 subscription total

208V @ 40 amps at least get me to 8kW. Way better than 208@ 30A = 6 kW.

BTW, my project is for 2X dual and 2X single for a total of 6X plugs. RFID access control.

 

[e of pi]

...and I am working on creating a non-Tesla offshoot of this site (fast chargers only--it seems like you are likely more interested in L2 charging):

fastcharger.info

That's really cool, thanks! Any thought of adding a cutoff by power level?

 

[RTPEV]

That's really cool, thanks! Any thought of adding a cutoff by power level?

Yes, but only as a way to help speed things up. Plugshare already has that capability, and is a more appropriate tool for mapping out fastcharger sites based on criteria such as that. I'm not really looking to compete with Plugshare, but rather to simply provide a discussion forum and tracking mechanism for existing and upcoming fastchargers, similar to what supercharger.info and this forum provides for Tesla Superchargers.

Additionally I have the problem that I have close to 4000 fastcharger sites in my database (seeded from AFDC - Alternative Fuels Data Center: Electric Vehicle Charging Station Locations) but that database doesn't have power information, so I don't have that data for the majority of my sites. I am adding it as I go, but it's likely not going to be complete without help.

 

[Rocky_H]

If you are looking for something with access control that is much cheaper, Clipper Creek does have some stations that have push-button number pads on them. So you can set up access by code and only give that code out as you like.

 

[MontyFloyd]

I just got off the phone with a Chargepoint rep as I am selecting equipment to replace and install at my workplace. The Chargepoint fees are high IMHO. Their CT4000 machines are bricks without a software subscription. Subscriptions are charged per port and can be paid annual of prepaid in 5 year chunks.

Annual: $329 per port.
5 Year: $263 per year, per port, prepaid = $1315

Personally I'm not a fan of this recurring cost just to use their software, even if I don't need billing services. All I need is local control of who and who can't charge.

They also have a subscription model as well, where they supply the equipment, cover all the maintenance and software costs. $2040 per year for dual ports and $1500 for single ports.

A Bloomberg report says companies making charging equipment are in a tough spot, as they make one-time sales on a lot margin device with lots of competition, so this is a another way to earn revenue.
This is probably great for fleet and other services, but dubious for a simple charge point.

 

[IronQQQ]

Did you inquire about their CPF50 system fees? If you could pay the $329/yr per gateway with 9 slave stations, that would be much more palatable.

I talked to the rep about the CPF50 and she said it would not work. they would no elaborate too much except that each charger would have to be tied to a particular vehicle / RFID. that's sounds pretty dumb to me, i.e... if I had 4X fleet vehicles, and I assigned Vehicle 1/RFI 1, to charger #1, that vehicle could only charge on Charger #1 and never on chargers #2-4.

that sounds extremely dumb, as a company will likely have more vehicles that chargers and available charging spaces. I don't get it... or perhaps the rep is doing what she can do get me to buy a higher dollar and higher recurring CT4000 system.

I've been searching for RFID controlled, non-networked, systems and there aren't that many. I've found that most chargers are either dumb (non-networked, non-RFID) or full gateway networked with recurring fees.

With our current building, we have chargers in the back parking lot (we share half the building with a busy medical center) and the chargers on our side have only been occupied maybe 2X in 10 years, but ppl no in our company. so I would be comfortable of having no RFID control if the chargers were to be located in the back of the building, but moving to a NEW building, the chargers will be in the front of the building on a super busy street. I'm sure ppl will come and crash our building for free charging unless we have some sort of RFID control or implement some sort of signage and charging permit system and to let our security department do some patrolling of the chargers.

 

[Rocky_H]

I've been searching for RFID controlled, non-networked, systems and there aren't that many.

I'm sure ppl will come and crash our building for free charging unless we have some sort of RFID control or implement some sort of signage and charging permit system and to let our security department do some patrolling of the chargers.

I'm confused here. You seem adamant that the specific access method MUST be RFID. Period. But you said they can be dumb non-networked ones. So why does the particular method of access matter? I mentioned above the stations which can be activated by a number code. That would prevent Joe Random from using your chargers, because the general public would not have the activation code.

(Ah, dang. I just double checked, and I see that the ones I was thinking of from Clipper Creek with the number code pads on them are still networked. They have a $9 per month fee for the code verification service, which isn't all that bad--certainly cheaper than ChargePoint.)