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Companion EV for a Model S ? Nissan Leaf maybe ?

Discussion in 'Australia & New Zealand' started by istevens, Jul 24, 2015.

  1. istevens

    istevens Member

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    Hi all ... have had a bad experience in the last little while with my wife's car, a Peugeot 207 HDI ... she only drives about 3000km per year and it's required more than $4K in service costs ... yep, more than $1 per km ... crazy

    It's got me thinking about whether there is a viable EV on the market here to replace it ... the requirement is low km, around town, no trips (we'd take the MS for those)

    Does anyone have any knowledge or recommendations here ? Is a Nissan Leaf a possibility ? We walked in to the local Nissan dealer today and they were pretty clueless (didn't have one to show us). They did however proudly show off this really large charging unit from Origin Energy (about 4x the size of the Tesla home unit) that apparently draws only 15A ... hmmmm ??

    Supplemental question ... having invested a few $K in getting the Tesla home charger properly wired up (100A dedicated circuit) and noting that I'm not an electrician ... can the charging systems of any of the "other" EV's on the market leverage this more effectively than others ?

    Thanks in advance

    Ian

    S85 - Chatswood NSW
     
  2. Keiron

    Keiron Member

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    Gudday Istevens

    I am one of the original Model S buyers in Melbourne. Timpoo needs to talk to about all of this in terms of chargers etc but simply put- If you have a single phase (240Vac) 100Amp line run for your Model S now then most other Ev's or PIHV's draw either 16Amp or 32Amp. Either way you cant miss in terms of available energy.

    As for The Leaf - I got all enthusiastic to get one for my wife who travels about 400kms per week but after quizzing Nissan I discovered the Leaf model they are offering in Australia at present is Gen 2- stock is about 4 years old and has max practical range of about 120Kms in traffic and under 100km on freeways. They have no intention of bringing in Gen 3 approx 250kms range until all old stock is sold. Cant say I blame them for their approach as they lead the way with Leaf in Australia and we just didnt take it up.

    I cant come at the BMW at $75K - Peugeot doesnt have a glowing reputation as best i can tell so I am suspicious. So we are living with the Impressa until the Model 3 arrives.:biggrin:
     
  3. istevens

    istevens Member

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    Thanks, Keiron

    I too am suspicious of Peugeot now ... it was a fuel injector failure in January, followed by another one this week, hence my post. Latest bill included a charge of $136 for "Software Download" ... which apparently was to "get the computer going correctly" ... good grief. The more amusing thing was the reaction of the mechanics when I just parked the MS in their workshop ... they were like bees :)

    I did specifically ask the Nissan guy today whether the version being sold today was the 2011 model or the 2013 model ... and he said it was the latter and quoted 170km range ... I'm guessing this is the Gen2 (?) If it's practically only 120km range then ... hmmmm

    Cheers

    Ian
     
  4. Dborn

    Dborn Confirmed

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    The Nissan didn't take off because it was stupidly priced for a small car. OK, a small premium for the battery cost. $50 odd grand for a tiny car? I don't think so unless you are a loony greenie.
     
  5. doctorwho

    doctorwho Member

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    I'm a loony green but nobody is that loony.
     
  6. reecho

    reecho Member

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    Any Leafs sold new currently are gen 1 models built in 2012. They may have compliance dates of 2014 or even early 2015 but they have been in storage for at least 3 years. Around 500 units came into bond in 2012. I have heard that a handful are still left, but not a lot. No Gen 2 cars have ever been brought into the country. The talk on the street is that Nissan will offer a 30Kwh model which should be available to order in the US very shortly. No word if this model or any updates will come to Australia, but I would of thought now that Nissan has straightened out it's over supply it could still be on the cards.
     
  7. WhiteStar

    WhiteStar Member

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    I'll probably keep the LEAF for short trips & easy parking. I get a bit loony when it comes to electric mobility. First electric bikes then the LEAF then the P90D then an electric aircraft :) Actually in the future, the loonies will be the ancestors who burnt dinosaur juice and did their best to destroy the planet.
     
  8. ecarfan

    ecarfan Well-Known Member

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  9. Gabz

    Gabz Member

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    The current Nissan leaf price is $35-40k driveway.
    other options
    BMW i3
    Plug in hybrids
    Audi a3 etron
    outlander PHEV
    and overly expensive porches
     
  10. abasile

    abasile Independent Software Eng.

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    The batteries in 2012-2014 LEAFs are well known to degrade overly rapidly when exposed to heat (particularly above about 30 C) for prolonged periods. Given Australia's warm climates, and that the LEAF has no active thermal management, I'd stay away from any LEAF lacking the updated, 2015+ "lizard" battery chemistry. My 2011 LEAF is doing better than many, but I've still lost 22% of the original capacity at a bit over 90,000 km on the clock. Driving carefully, I can do 100 km on a charge. Aside from the battery, though, my LEAF has been impressively reliable from the start.
     
  11. Gabz

    Gabz Member

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    depends what he wants the range hardly matters 3000km per year is like 57km per week.

    If you want something as a gap filler until you can get a model 3 etc..replace in 2 to 3 years can't go past the nissian leaf as the cheapest EV in Australia. you might have to do dealer shopping last guy from Sydney who brought one got it from a Canberra dealership as it was the only guys willing to do the deal.

    If you want something longer term the bmw i3 is faster than the LEAF but at nearly double the cost.

    In both cases 3rd party charging stations are cheaper than the manufactures recommended offerings.

    It's really a question of how much your willing to spend to say screw petrol/oil/diesel
     
  12. Mark E

    Mark E Member

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    That's a worry - what kind of range are you getting driving normally on a cold wet day? Do Nissan have any plans for battery replacement? I thought that the leaf could do 150+ km. 100km would be borderline for me frequently - even though my regular commute is only 40km to the office, a trip or two to a customer and I'd be looking for a charger in a hurry.
     
  13. abasile

    abasile Independent Software Eng.

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    On a cold, wet day, with my 22% degraded 2011 LEAF battery, I wouldn't count on any more than around 80km of range. My range numbers leave a little bit margin at the bottom, as I'm not going to drive to flat empty. The US EPA range rating on a new LEAF is 84 miles, which is full to empty with "average" US driving, so your idea of "150+ km" probably comes from Nissan's overly optimistic marketing department.

    Here in the US, I'd be eligible for a warranty replacement battery if I lost 34% capacity before 5 years or 60,000 miles. I've been too kind to my battery, and it isn't going to happen. (Nissan only instituted a capacity warranty upon confronting a class action lawsuit initiated by Arizona owners who lost capacity more rapidly.)

    If you could charge at the office (to be prepared for offsite customer visits), a LEAF might work for you. But only if Nissan has a capacity warranty in Australia.
     
  14. Gabz

    Gabz Member

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    battery.jpg

    5 years or 100k km for at least 9 bars or of 12.
     
  15. abasile

    abasile Independent Software Eng.

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    Good - 100k km beats the US warranty by 2100mi. (One LEAF owner in the US reported losing the 9th capacity bar at 62k miles and being denied a warranty battery...)

    The threshold for dropping below "9 bars" is about 66% capacity remaining. At least in the US, Nissan is giving improved 2015 "lizard" batteries to those eligible to make capacity claims. If a "new" Australian LEAF has been sitting around in the sun for a couple of years, then it might already be down 15% or more in capacity. That would work in your favor, as you'd almost certainly qualify for the capacity warranty within 6yr/100k km.
     
  16. Miggy

    Miggy Member

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    Why not get an E-Bike and share the Tesla Model S.
     
  17. timpoo

    timpoo Member

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    Hi Ian

    Cars

    Just to add to what's been said - the best companion EV to the Model S would be the BMW i3 or the Audi A3 eTron. The former can be all electric (with an optional petrol range extender), and the latter is a plug in hybrid.

    The Leaf is fine, and you can get one for $30k, but if it were me I would wait for them to release the next one in Australia (if they ever get around to it!!).

    The truth of the matter is there just aren't enough EVs available in Australia (yet).

    Charging

    When you say you got a 100A dedicated circuit, I'm assuming you mean 32A 3 Phase put in, or are you saying single phase?

    Keep in mind that Tesla chargers, including their home units, can only charge Tesla cars.

    There are other options that will allow you to charge both your Tesla and your other EV from the same unit. Given that you have already set up a dedicated circuit, it sounds like you'll need a universal charger, as your other EV will probably have a different plug to the Model S.

    Send me a private message if you need more info.

    Cheers
    Tim
     
  18. istevens

    istevens Member

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    Hi all

    Thanks heaps to everyone for your input, this is where I've come to ...

    The trigger for this thread was servicing bill-shock on the Peugeot 207 HDi, which is 5 years old and cost $26K when new ... it has ~16K km on the clock and, whilst fuel costs are negligible, service costs have always been high and have been >$4K so far this year ... the TCO is getting crazy ...

    An i3 or an A3 eTron would be wonderful, but serious overkill for the km travelled, which brings me back to the Leaf and it's TCO ... lots of people in the thread have talked about how the battery might degrade but I'm not really worried about that ... a 100,000km warranty is just fine for our needs.

    So, I've issued a challenge to the Nissan guys ... do a deal to make it worthwhile for me ... you want to get rid of these things, I want to buy one at the right changeover price ...

    We shall see :)

    @timpoo ... I will take you up on your offer and will PM questions re home electrical setup ... thanks :)

    Ian
     
  19. heosat

    heosat Member

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    I really like the look of the Renault Zoe as a second car. Does anyone else agree?
     
  20. istevens

    istevens Member

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    Agree, the Zoe looks promising but there's no word on when it might be available here in Oz
     

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