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Comparable Cars

Discussion in 'Model S' started by nleggatt, Dec 15, 2011.

  1. nleggatt

    nleggatt Member

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    I was just thinking the other day about how I could get a new Mazda6 for about 35ish, but then my gas payments over the next 5-6 years would be about the same as $30k which makes the car the same price as the Tesla,

    But, then I was thinking, the Tesla doesn't come close to what the Tesla is, a luxury sedan. So, my question is, what are some comparable cars performance, handling ways, and cool factor ways etc that could be used in the above calculation.

    IE: if a comparable gas car (again forget the fuel economy) is 60k, then we are way ahead by the Tesla Model S. "i could have bought a porche, but it would have cost me, $75k + 30k in fuel over the next 5 years"
     
  2. Mycroft

    Mycroft Life happens

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    IMO, the Audi A7 is as close as you can get to the non-sport Model S.
     
  3. stopcrazypp

    stopcrazypp Well-Known Member

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    Yep. The dimensions are close and it's a sports-coupe-like 5-door hatchback.

    The Mercedes CLS, the new 2012 BMW 6 series gran coupe, and the Volkswagon CC are also going for a similar look, but they are not hatchbacks.

    If you move higher up in price, the Aston Martin Rapide and Porsche Panamera are both hatchbacks and also goes for the same kind of sports coupe look (although most people say the Panamera failed miserably in execution, even though it goes for the classic Porsche look).
     
  4. VolkerP

    VolkerP EU Model S P-37

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    The strongest competitor of course is the Fisker Karma :redface:
     
  5. AnOutsider

    AnOutsider S532 # XS27

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    I'd say the A7 is closer all around. Better performance, roomier interior, great driver (haven't driven a karma though), and more established. The karma has its looks and that's about it other than 30-50 miles on electric.
     
  6. Robert.Boston

    Robert.Boston Model S VIN P01536

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    Hmm, I disagree. Tiny passenger space, tiny storage. Beyond the fact that it has an electric powertrain, the similarities aren't really that strong. I agree with Mycroft's comparison to the Audi A7 (there are two that park near me at work now -- Audi really needed to have spent more time designing the back-end of that car). And at about $64k modestly equipped, it provides a good price point for comparing to the Model S.

    A7: Audi-A7-1.jpg
    Model S: bytheocean_0.jpg
     
  7. Mycroft

    Mycroft Life happens

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    To match the price/performance of the Model S Sport package, you need to jump up to the Panamera. Probably the 4S is the closest model. But the Porsche is severely limited in the storage department.
     
  8. nhurst

    nhurst Member

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    I would hardly call the Panamera "severly limited in the storage department".
     
  9. VolkerP

    VolkerP EU Model S P-37

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    The A7 is in fact a remarkably close shape. If I ever get tired of Tesla time, I'll slap these four rings on the nose cone and see if anybody can tell...
     
  10. rabar10

    rabar10 FFE until Model 3

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    #10 rabar10, Dec 16, 2011
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2011
    Well we can do this with Tesla's stated competition, the BMW 5-series. (US-specific price estimates follow)

    If I configure a 535i (0-60 in 5.4s) with 8-speed automatic, "Premium package" (power trunk open/close, garage opener, keyless entry) and "Technology package" (rear-view camera, nav), I come to $57,450. EPA city/highway gas consumption is 18/27.

    Let's compare it to the Model S with 300-mile pack but no other options - $77k before credit, $70k after.

    Each 10,000 miles on the BMW, assuming 23-24 mpg and $3.50/gal, costs you about $1500 in fuel. So after 100k miles (at this fixed gas price), you've spent another $15k in fuel. Assume that 100k miles worth of electricity for the Model S costs you $2500 (either home electricity bill increases, fast-charging fees, whatever -- this one is harder for me to estimate but is certainly lower than fuel costs), and the two total expenditures are roughly the same.

    You can obviously play with these numbers one way or the other (lower-range battery in the Model S, different or increasing fuel costs, etc. etc.) but it shows that, at least in the luxury car segment, the Model S lifetime ownership cost is competitive with other options.
     
  11. Volker.Berlin

    Volker.Berlin Member

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  12. Robert.Boston

    Robert.Boston Model S VIN P01536

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    So, let's see how this stacks up in a Net Present Value calculation. I've made the following assumptions:

    Model S: $80,000 sticker minus $7,500 US rebate; $0.12/kWh power escalating at 4% nominal; 3.33 miles/kWh.
    585i: $57,450 sticker; $3.90/gallon premium gas escalating at 8.5% nominal; 23.5 mpg.
    Overall, 5% discount rate for NPV purposes.

    Here's how it comes out, expressed as the cost difference between the two cars, only looking at these factors, as a function of miles driven per year. A positive number means that the Model S is more expensive than the BMW:

    5,000 mi/year : $7,493
    10,000 mi/year: $(65)
    15,000 mi/year: $(7,622)
    20,000 mi/year: $(15,179)

    Or, generically, the cost of the Model S over the BMW is about 15,000 - 1.5*(miles-per-year) (based on the assumptions above, looking only at purchase price and fuel).
     
  13. Eberhard

    Eberhard #421 Model S #S32

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    But you have to take into your calculation, that you dont need to replace oil or sparks. Cut down 80% from the maintenance cost as well.
     
  14. augkuo

    augkuo Member

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    He just based it on purchase price and fuel - insurance, registration fees, maintenance/repairs, etc. not included.

    The gist of it all though is that you're paying 3.6 cents/mile for the Model S vs 16.6 cents/mile for the BMW so of course you'll start saving money once
    you've driven enough miles to cover the premium of an electric car.

     
  15. Citizen-T

    Citizen-T Active Member

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    I wonder if your electricity rate estimate is too high.

    I contacted Progress Energy regarding Off-Peak pricing for electricity and found that (given my driving habits) the grand majority of my electricity costs for Model S will be at roughly $0.05/kWh.
     
  16. nleggatt

    nleggatt Member

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    The questions was more about which cars are comparable performance and feature ways. Not what cars are similar in price. Would I still have to pay $70k for a comparable (performance and features) car, or could I pay $30k and get a comparable (performance and features) car?
     
  17. Mycroft

    Mycroft Life happens

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    You can pay $5,000 or less and get a car that will get you to the same destination. You can buy a damned nice car for $30k but you can't buy a damned nice EV that seats 5+2 and goes 300 miles on a charge for less than $77,400.00
     
  18. Robert.Boston

    Robert.Boston Model S VIN P01536

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    There are no cars below $50k that I know of that will bring comparable build-quality and performance to the Model S. Some might argue for the top-end Caddies, but I wouldn't consider them to be in the same category as the Model S. Of course, many people are "buying up" with the Model S from what they might otherwise drive. For example, if I replaced my A3 with a new diesel one, it'd cost me $38,400 and get 34 mpg combined. Diesel's a bit more expensive than premium around here, but I'd have to be driving 33,000 miles-per-year to justify the upgrade solely on fuel savings.

    And, yes, I'm being conservative and not putting any cost difference on maintenance, but I'm also not putting in an a factor for amortizing the battery replacement.

    Electricity prices will, of course, vary. New England has among the highest energy prices in the country, and even the available off-peak tariffs don't eliminate many costs (we're still burning natural gas overnight). Under NStar's tariffs, I'd pay 4.3 cents just for delivery charges, plus 7.3 cents for power (or 9-12 cents for renewable power). :crying:
     
  19. nleggatt

    nleggatt Member

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    Dont want to open a new thread for this, but, how do I calculate how much it will cost to charge the 230 pack? Our hydro rates a

    "Under the Residential Conservation Rate, customers pay 6.67 cents per kWh for the first 1,350 kWh they use over an average two-month billing period. Above that amount, customers pay 9.62
    cents per kWh for the balance of the electricity used during the billing period. This rate structure is designed to encourage conservation and is referred to as a "stepped rate". The first portion is called Step 1 and the amount above that is called Step 2."


    Which would mean I'd always be charging at 9.92
     
  20. Mycroft

    Mycroft Life happens

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    A rough thumbnail would be 60kwh x $9.92 = ~ $6.00 to charge it up from completely empty. Roughly $0.50 for 20 miles.
     

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