TMC is an independent, primarily volunteer organization that relies on ad revenue to cover its operating costs. Please consider whitelisting TMC on your ad blocker and becoming a Supporting Member. For more info: Support TMC
Start a Discussionhttps://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/tags/

Comparing Model S with E 43 AMG. Have to wait a bit?

Discussion in 'Model S' started by gowthamn, May 13, 2017.

Tags:
  1. gowthamn

    gowthamn Science

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2016
    Messages:
    235
    Location:
    Seattle
    My 2nd attempt to buy the Model S 90D failed. I could not convince myself yet to buy a MS. I am holding Mercedes E 43 AMG as the benchmark car.
    Below is the comparison based on my experience. Model S falls short. I might need a push from you all if I am to buy an MS.
    Abbreviation for Merc E class. will be "ME".

    Advantages of MS:
    Torque: 0-60 for ME is 4.5 sec and MS is 4.2. The instant torque of an EV gives a MUCH better experience and there is no turbo lag.

    Autopilot: Tesla will have a better autopilot. ME has some safety features related to Autopilot like auto breaking and lane keeping, but not as good as MS. For convenience and active safety MS is better

    Apps: Tesla's mobile app is and other apps built using Tesla's API are much better than Merc.

    Interface: I like the screens and touch based interface of MS

    Exterior looks: MS looks good. I like the nose and real tail lights.

    3 year cost to own: Maintenance cost and depreciation is less for MS.

    Disadvantages of MS:
    Charging: Note: I don't have home charging. Have to charge at work or in Superchargers. The frequency of charging is high because the rage of a fully charged MS is lesser than a fully fueled ME. Range of MS is just 58% of ME. Charging duration for MS to 80% is 800% slower than fueling ME even by using a super charger. Charging to 100% is 1500% slower than ME. Availability of charging stations are not as good as gas stations. Charging within a destination city is MUCH shower (Only NEMA / Chademo) than superchargers.

    Safety Rating
    : 2017 MS is rated lower than 2016 ME overall in the IIHS website.

    Interior Design: The interior design of ME is beautiful and elegant. MS is too bland for my taste. Also no door storage in MS.

    Cabin Noise & Ride Quality: Cabin noise in MS is higher than ME. I drove on the same road at the same speed with a sound meter app on my phone. MS was 6 dB louder. ME also had a smoother ride.

    Features: Features like ventilated seats not available in MS

    Build Quality: Panel gaps, interior finishing and materials choice, trim alignment etc are not very good in MS.

    Audio: Premium audio in MS not as punchy and detailed as ME

    Price: The price for both cars as configured is: MS - 106,800, ME - 89,155

    Overall I think MS scores a bit less than ME. I am willing to wait several months for MS to catch up. Specifically in areas of charging speed, cabin noise and build quality. Hopefully the price comes down when 2170 battery cells are used for MS.
     
  2. croman

    croman Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2016
    Messages:
    1,836
    Location:
    Chicago, IL
    Don't go with the IIHS safety tests. While helpful NHSTA standards are the truer test. IIHS changed the test completely and therefore the results are not comparable to 2016 and previous tests. If there was an apples to apples IIHS test, then it would be fine.

    Also, I wouldn't stress so much about charging. How long is your commute? Also range is very variable. I think this is the biggest red herring when comparing ICE to EV. I have a 2014 LEAF that has 86 rated miles but I've been on several 120+ mile trips with it (no DC fast charging capability). That's 50% more range than advertised just by driving differently and picking the right time of year (Not winter). That being said, my point about commute distance is that you only need to replace what you take out each day. Charging at work should be more than sufficient to do that (even 120V/15A regular outlet will provide ~35 miles of range in 6-7 hours assuming battery does not require heating (Tesla only -- other EVs do not actively manage battery heat so don't drain battery doing that)).

    I can't disagree that build quality isn't up to ME standards, but I'd also say that Tesla goes for a different aesthetic and its amazing for me. I love the body styling and the interior minimalism. Also you did not factor in the much larger and more ergonomic cabin -- especially for back seat occupants. Not having the dreaded "hump" is critical for my kids and wife to have a comfortable ride. Also, MS has the best storage of any sedan. I took a 1500 mile round trip over Easter and with AP it was the most relaxed I've ever been. I was able to leave in the evening, drive through the entire night, and arrive at my destination 14 hours later (3 charging stops for a 60D). ICE cars take 12.5 hours (740 miles one way). That extra 1.5 hours was spent at a Meijer's shopping, having breakfast at a hotel charger, and bathroom breaks). The way back was even faster (upgraded to a 75D). Did it in 13 hours (only 30 minutes "extra" as compared to ICE). Skipped one charger and was able to avoid taper by not lingering at chargers if I wasn't doing anything. You can SC for 20 minutes and get over 100 miles of range which is generally good enough to get to the next charger. The nav does a good job telling you when you have ample charge to get going again. I would really not overestimate how your lack of knowledge about EVs creates range anxiety where there will be no issues.
     
    • Helpful x 1
    • Like x 1
  3. kort677

    kort677 Banned

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2015
    Messages:
    4,853
    Location:
    florida.
    there is no comparison between an ICE and a tesla.
     
    • Like x 12
    • Disagree x 1
  4. gowthamn

    gowthamn Science

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2016
    Messages:
    235
    Location:
    Seattle
    I commute only 300 miles per month for regular use. So charging at work should be enough. its a bit risky just in case some other EV come earlier than me to work. But I can always charge at another building.

    If, I can somehow fix home charging by forcing the apartment manager to put a charger or move to a different house, I can confidentially buy an MS.
     
  5. gowthamn

    gowthamn Science

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2016
    Messages:
    235
    Location:
    Seattle
    #5 gowthamn, May 13, 2017
    Last edited: May 13, 2017
    I will wait a bit and when Model 3 is launched hopefully Model S is improved at that time.

    Ok, I have made up my mind to wait. Others don't have to reply to this thread.
     
  6. croman

    croman Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2016
    Messages:
    1,836
    Location:
    Chicago, IL
    300 miles per month means 1 visit to a SC per month (to cover your monthly commute, obviously life driving will add to this). Go get this car. You will never have an issue keeping it charged and I don't see the Model S changing that much in the next 6 months. Maybe in a year it will have 2170 batteries but we have no real information on the battery chemistry changes other than 2170 costs Tesla less to acquire and it has 30% greater energy density (so its lighter). It might be worth it but we also don't know about longevity, ability to handle temperature extremes, etc. The 18650 cells in my car are time tested and we know they kick butt. I'd rather, when spending this $, stick with a battery I can trust will age gracefully. It provides more than enough energy and charges fast enough (see my above post) to be comparable to ICE when on road trips.

    I have a home charger so I never waste time/breath pollution/fumes with fueling my vehicle. Also EVs have 1000s of other benefits you didn't list but are more subtle (less vibration/noise, clean air, remote heat/cool even in garages, ability not to poison yourself with your own exhaust fumes while driving or idling in traffic, etc.)
     
    • Helpful x 1
  7. patrick40363

    patrick40363 Member

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2014
    Messages:
    503
    Location:
    Cali
    Buy what you want.
     
    • Like x 2
  8. gowthamn

    gowthamn Science

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2016
    Messages:
    235
    Location:
    Seattle
    I want a Model S. That's why I am waiting.
     
    • Like x 1
  9. Burnt Toast

    Burnt Toast Member

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2016
    Messages:
    368
    Location:
    Melbourne
    I was extremely underwhelmed with the new E class and thought it was not really an improvement on the old model. The E43 is even worse to me, it's by no means an AMG, its just the C450 engine rebadged for marketing purposes in the new E class. The Model S is a vastly superior car, despite it being an older model.
     
    • Like x 1
  10. ecarfan

    ecarfan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2013
    Messages:
    13,642
    Location:
    San Mateo, CA
    All that in the space of just about 3 hours. ;-)

    I would not assume that the S will "improve" significantly in the next few months, but it might. Tesla continually improves its cars and does not use the old school "model year" concept. Changes can happen at any time.

    I commend you for your patience.
     
    • Disagree x 1
  11. azred

    azred Member

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2016
    Messages:
    835
    Location:
    Chandler, AZ
    My stepson recently moved to San Diego and bought an S before he bought a house -- and he has no way to charge at the rental housing other than 110. I don't understand his thinking, but obviously you and he are more adventurous than I am. I love my S but the love would be strained if I couldn't have a Tesla charger in my garage.
     
  12. xav-

    xav- Member

    Joined:
    May 26, 2016
    Messages:
    598
    Location:
    Orange County CA
    I would chose a model s any day over an E class. Is anything more boring than an E class? Maybe get the C63AMG at least it's not as boring
     
  13. outie

    outie Active Member

    Joined:
    May 22, 2016
    Messages:
    1,332
    Location:
    SoCal
    I don't see the Model S "catching up" to to a E43 any time soon in those areas, if ever.
     
    • Helpful x 1
    • Like x 1
    • Disagree x 1
  14. Duke-U

    Duke-U Member

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2016
    Messages:
    303
    Location:
    Tilburg, Netherlands
    I was like you almost a year ago. My advise would be: rent one for the weekend or a week, drive it to your family visit or to work, and you will know why you want a Model S. I drove a Porsche 911 and that one is hard to beat if you compare it to other cars, however driving a Tesla is something totally different and that's why it's so addictive. No howling engine (I do miss that from time to time), no smelly gas stations, the autopilot, the app, the aura of the car, etc. We can sum up all of that but it won't tell you anything if you not have that experience yourself.

    You can't experience that in full with a test drive, you just have to incorporate it in your life for a little time.

    Ow.. did I mention the updates every so many weeks?

    Enjoy!
     
    • Like x 2
  15. gowthamn

    gowthamn Science

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2016
    Messages:
    235
    Location:
    Seattle
    Advice taken. Will rent a Model S for long drives.
     
    • Like x 2
  16. ShockOnT

    ShockOnT ⚡️⚡️⚡️⚡️⚡️

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2016
    Messages:
    1,466
    Location:
    Sydney
    Both wonderful cars.
    I prefer electric because it's less boring than yet another ICE car.
    It's just a different, new experience.
     
  17. Don85D

    Don85D Member

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2016
    Messages:
    182
    Location:
    Markham, Ontario
    For an apartment dweller this may not apply but our Model S is running on sunshine from our solar array and by charging at home the car is always topped up and ready. It's like my iPhone in that way as both get plugged in every night for a top up. Supercharging for 30 minutes while travelling has become a welcomed break for coffee or lunch. I adjusted my driving style a little but when running for free and not producing emissions I feel good.

    Fuel savings are significant over the life of the car which I expect to be 30 years.

    If you want smelly gas station experiences try owning a Mercedes 300D. We had one long ago.

    As with any large ticket purchase create your own business case. You will need to justify the purchase to others when they ask so take your time.
     
  18. No2DinosaurFuel

    No2DinosaurFuel Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2015
    Messages:
    1,071
    Location:
    San Diego, California
    Here is my take and I mostly agree you should wait.

    Torque:
    The point of EVs is the torque. No lag, instant torque when you need it. The E AMG is no match here.
    Winner: Tesla

    Autopilot:
    Yes I have tested both on the same track of road and similar lighting condition. The E class would ping pong back and forth in the lane, while the Tesla is dead center every time without any input. The salesman actually had to nudge the steering wheel from time to time for the E Class's autopilot.
    Winner: Tesla

    Apps:
    I am not sure on this one. The Tesla looks nicer, but it doesn't mean you can mess with the app on the center middle screen. If you are referring to the app on your phone, then I think there plenty of apps to monitor and view your Model S.
    Winner: Tie

    Interface:
    The E class has too many dials and screens and after the test drive, I still don't know what they all do. There is too much information spread out between I think 3 screens. I think Mercedes in working to improve this. Same goes with Audi and other German Luxury brand.
    Winner: Tesla Model S for now...

    Exterior looks:
    Yup you are right, The Model S does look better, but then again it's in the eye of the beholder. I'm sure there are people out there who like the Mercedes' look.
    Winner: Tesla Model S for me

    3 years own-ship:
    I don't really know if this is true. If you drive a lot of mileage, then it's lower for the Model S. If not, I think they are comparable. Some Mercedes dealership gives you free maintenance for like 2 years or so. So you are good for a while. For any brand new car, the cost of maintenance is pretty low. Model S will require $1200, $600 for each of the annual maintenance checkup. As for depreciation, I think they are comparable.
    Winner: Tie

    Charging:
    I completely agree with you on this. If you don't have home charging, the charging advantage goes out the window. And with the recent news about slower supercharging over time if you always supercharge, I don't recommend any Tesla cars. Maybe once the Tesla can charge in 15 minutes or less reliably without slowing supercharging penalty, then I would recommend it. Until then, hold on to your ICE car and your hard earned money and grow your money.
    Winner: Mercedes by a long shot

    Safety:
    There are different ratings systems and I'm sure both cars are very safe.
    Winner: Tie

    Interior Design:
    There is no doubt Mercedes wins here. Yes some will argue the minimalist feel, but guess what, you don't have cut holders and what not. The placements of cup holder on the arm rest is useless because where will you put your arm? Moreover it is not gripping so you have to go slow otherwise it spills all over. Tesla is a few years behind in this one. They are getting better, but overall still way behind ALL car manufacture IMO.
    Winner: Mercedes

    Cabin Noise and Ride Quality:
    If you get air suspension, I think the ride is better. It dampens and cut out the road vibration quite a bit. This is one of the things I like over the Mercedes E class. As for Cabin noise, the Mercedes is well built. No ticking, rattling, squeaking, etc. The Tesla has all kinds. I had to take it to the service center thrice to get it fixed correctly. And even now, I don't know how long it's good for. As for the noise, I do like the silence of the EV. I really detest the low frequency grumbling of any ICE engine no matter how insulated it is especially on highway.
    Winner: Tie, Ride Quailty: Tesla, Cabin Noise: Tie

    Features:
    There are plenty of features on the Mercedes too. I would actually give this one to the Mercedes just because Tesla recently limited what configurations combo you can get.
    Winner: Mercedes

    Build Quality:
    I completely agree with you on this. The build quality of the Tesla is horrendous. This is after 4/5 years of building Model S. Panels are not flush and things are not thought out. i.e. Next gen seats were rubbing against the center arm rest. When I asked the SC about it, they said yeah it's not a problem with the textile seats or old leather seats. My take it they didn't do the measurements on the Next Gen seats and just put it there just for the sake of putting it there. It is a joke what those Engineers at Tesla do. I think all they care about it battery, auotpilot, and drive train. Everything else can be engineered by some High School drop out.
    Winner: Mercedes by a long shot

    Audio:
    I have driven in a $35K Infiniti and the sound in that is much much better than my "upgraded, aftermarket" sound in my Tesla. It is really that bad. Mercedes' sound is much better than the Infiniti so you get the point of how far Tesla needs to catch up here.
    Winner: Mercedes by a long shot

    Price:
    Mercedes E class wins here. It's cheaper for a better everyday car.
    Winner: Mercedes

    Thinking back, I should've waited on my car if I knew about the slowing supercharging overtime if I supercharge too often. I was willing to put up with a lot of crap from Tesla like bad sound system, horrible build quality, lack of usable cup holder etc. But I didn't know about the slowing supercharging. Right now the supercharging is borderline bearable for me. But overtime as the supercharging time goes up, then it's not. I might end up getting something else down the road with much better and more reliable charging time.

    Sounds to me like you are in the same camp as many where they need the quick supercharging. They are around the corner. ChargePoint and other charging companies have opened some 350KW charging stations even though no cars can take that charging speed yet. Tesla is all hype in this department. Elon has touted much faster charging, but has nothing show for it. So far Tesla has 0 charging stations with that even matches that capability. I can see in the not too distance future, cars will be able to charge in 15 minutes or less at these charging stations.

    It will be interesting to see where EV will be in the next few years. I have my money on Volkswagen just because they are forced to develop EVs technology after the diesel cheating car scandal.
     
    • Like x 2
    • Informative x 1
  19. roblab

    roblab Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2008
    Messages:
    2,279
    Location:
    Angwin (Napa Valley) CA
    I guess I just don't understand people when they say they can't charge at home. I have never seen a home in the US that doesn't have 220v feed to the circuit breaker. I can hook up a 220 v outlet to a circuit breaker box in about ten minutes. I can run 50 feet or more of #6 w/g to wherever I want, even from a circuit breaker sitting in a closet in a bedroom. I put the outlet in my garage. As owner, I needed no permit. It cost me roughly $50.

    A rental? Why would I prefer a rental where I couldn't charge? I would move if I couldn't get permission to make charging available. Even in apartment buildings and condos, people have arranged to put in 220 volt outlets. One guy lobbied to be the equivalent of the HOA president of his apartment complex, then lobbied to put in an outlet . I suspect he would have moved if that didn't work.

    Home charging is a big deal. No gas car can fill up at home overnight. Electricity is everywhere. 220 is almost everywhere, and there are wires to stretch that.
     
  20. suraj1194

    suraj1194 Member

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2016
    Messages:
    225
    Location:
    Bay Area CA
    Your charging/range issue is a variable controlled by the profile of your commute. Is it an intra-urban drive ? An unrestrained freeway run ? Slower 40-60 in traffic ? My Model S gets me rated range doing 70-75 on the freeway with climate control on. It does noticeably better at slower speeds of 40-60. The AMG might be the opposite, drinking like a sailor in city traffic and best as a freeway cruiser. I don't have the numbers offhand for the AMG, but my old E39 M5 was like that. Tesla even has an entire blog post on range vs speed:
    Model S Efficiency and Range
     

Share This Page