TMC is an independent, primarily volunteer organization that relies on ad revenue to cover its operating costs. Please consider whitelisting TMC on your ad blocker or making a Paypal contribution here: paypal.me/SupportTMC

Comparision of an 85D to a P85D

Discussion in 'Model S' started by breser, Mar 2, 2015.

  1. breser

    breser AutoPilot Nostradamus

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2014
    Messages:
    2,310
    Location:
    North Bend, WA
    #1 breser, Mar 2, 2015
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2015
    As I mentioned in another thread I got a P85D for a loaner today while they were working on my 85D. I figured a lot of people might be interested in a comparison of someone that have driven both. Especially since a number of people have mentioned being on the fence as to which one to buy.

    What's different?

    Very little was different between the two cars. The P85D had the following options in addition to what was on my car

    • NextGen Seats (I have leather seats).
    • Ultra High Fidelity Sound Package
    • Premium Interior Package
    • 21" Turbine Wheels (I have 19" Standard)
    • Carbon Fiber spoiler
    • Red brake calipers.

    Other differences were mostly cosmetic differences like paint color, trim, headliner color, etc.

    Acceleration

    The P85D is quicker. I know that's obvious but wanted to just get this out of the way. I'm not going to spend a lot of time describing the acceleration experience, but I find Insane mode very jarring. Took the fiancée for a ride and managed to get quite an exclamation out of her even when she knew what was coming. The 85D is plenty quick but the P85D is definitely insane. Even in sport mode the P85D is obviously quicker.

    Handling

    Both cars had air suspension. My car had 19" wheels, the P85D had 21" wheels. I took the P85D to a twisty road I'd been to with my 85D and S85 before. Both D's handle much better than the S85 did here. Both dual motor cars drive like they're on rails. If there's a difference between the P85D and the 85D as far as handling, I didn't notice it. I'll admit that I'm not one of those people that is likely to talk about how a given car is too floaty or be super particular about the suspension. So it's possible there is a difference, but if it's there it's more nuanced then me.

    Seats

    As I mentioned above the P85D has the next gen seats. They are certainly comfortable. But I think the old seats are comfortable too. I don't think there is one seat that is going to be universally preferred by everyone. The bolsters on the next gen seats give you the feeling of being gently hugged by the seats. The P85D seats definitely were cushier but I wouldn't equate that with comfort. I kept finding myself shifting because I wanted more freedom than the next gen seats provided. So I think I prefer the old seats. If you're not sure which you'd prefer I strongly advise you go sit both for a while. I also strongly recommend spending some time playing with the adjustments. There is a lot to adjust on both seats and the seats can be uncomfortable if not adjusted to suit you well.

    Regen

    I think the P85D has a little stronger regen. It's not a huge difference, so don't expect a massive change here. But my gut feeling is that there is a little more there. It's also not enough more to make a huge difference in driving it.

    Range/Efficiency

    I didn't have the P85D for long so I didn't drive too terribly far with it. Neither car was in range mode and I didn't bother to try range mode on the P85D. Boy does it eat the watts. I've never seen my 85D get into the 500 Wh/mile (except at the very beginning of a trip). I saw that some with the P85D and in some cases way beyond. I'd guess that the P85D uses 50-100 Wh/mile more than my 85D (no that's not a scientific test, it's just eyeballing it). I certainly did some spirited driving with it while I had it but even tamely driving 30 miles to and from the service center it easily used more power than my 85D.

    None of this should be a surprise to anyone given the window stickers/EPA information about the two models. It's just very easily noticed and obvious.

    Noise

    Didn't notice any significant differences in the noises. Both cars make a bit of noise from the front motor.

    Sound System

    I didn't get the upgraded sound system on my car and the P85D had it. It's clearly better. I'm not sure if the difference is worth the cost. If you're an audiophile you might be better off with an aftermarket upgrade. But if you wanted a stock system and were willing to pay for it I don't think it's a bad purchase. I didn't buy it since I mostly listen to talk radio when in the car making an upgraded system a waste for me.

    Interior

    The P85D had the Premium Interior Package. Which means it had the upgraded leather panels and the lighting package. Both cars had the yacht floor since Tesla made it standard. The upgraded leather package replaces a plastic that is similar to the leather on the doors, arm rests and the center of the steering wheel. The trim on the B pillar even without the premium interior package is real leather on my car. The lower dash didn't seem any different to me, if it is it's very subtle. It's definitely nicer, but again for the price I don't think it's worth it for the cost. Especially since it's tied to the lighting package.

    I didn't have the P85D at night so I can't comment on the lighting upgrades. I can say that the lighting in the trunk and frunk on my S85 and my 85D is abysmal. But I plan to upgrade that myself and don't think it justifies the price of the package.

    Overall Thoughts

    This is obviously my opinion but I'm glad I got what I did. The P85D launches sure make for an entertaining situation with other people in the car. In my case I don't have many different people in my car and would quickly become a very rare occasion. Unless you want to drag race with high end cars, I just don't see the point. Certainly not for the $20k more I would have spent for a P85D. I got back in my 85D and was still having plenty of fun with the acceleration it had. Shockingly driving the P85D didn't ruin it for me. I walked into this experience expecting to be blown away and figuring I'd wish I'd bought the P85D, but I wasn't. The things that really matter for a day to day driver the 85D has. It has enough acceleration to out run 99% of what's out there on the road. It has great handling and sticks to the road just as well.

    If you really want the P85D and don't mind the extra cost in price or the decreased range then by all means buy one. If you're on the fence, care about your range, don't need to wow lots of passengers and aren't going to be racing every Ferrari and Lamborghini you can find then I would pass on the P85D and just get the 85D. With the next gen seats now available to order in an 85D the only reason to order a P85D is if you want the acceleration, spoiler or painted brakes calipers.
     
  2. vvanders

    vvanders Member

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2014
    Messages:
    134
    Location:
    Portland, Or
    Thanks for the report, I couldn't justify the range decrease on the P85D(nor the price tag) so it's nice to hear that the 85D matches up so well.
     
  3. JMG

    JMG Member

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2015
    Messages:
    546
    Location:
    NE Texas
    Great thread, as I'm currently in that part of my research in trying to decide between the 85D and the P85D. Its interesting because I've learned that there isn't a big difference other that right off the line, in other words passing acceleration is not that much of a difference, is that right? Now that the 2nd gen seats are available in both, it certainly makes it more tempting.

    However, through reading through this forum and the other TM forum it seems like those that had regrets were normally wishing they would've splurged for the P. I have read a few other accounts like yours, that say they are glad they went with the 85D, but it seems like the majority wish they would've splurged.

    I'm still on the fence. The P won't break the bank, so I don't want any regrets. Too many decisions!
     
  4. breser

    breser AutoPilot Nostradamus

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2014
    Messages:
    2,310
    Location:
    North Bend, WA
    Forgot to mention the interior differences. So I added that section now.
     
  5. rjcbox

    rjcbox Member

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2013
    Messages:
    428
    Location:
    NJ, USA
    Appreciate your report since I'm currently comparing models, test drove both, and came to similar conclusions
     
  6. breser

    breser AutoPilot Nostradamus

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2014
    Messages:
    2,310
    Location:
    North Bend, WA
    I still think the P85D has more passing acceleration. Even when already at speed it seemed quicker to me. However, the difference at speed is not nearly as massive as it is at a stop.

    I must be missing them because I've only seen a handful of 85D owners talking about their purchases and all of them have been very positive. I'm not sure how many have driven P85Ds. But I don't recall seeing any of them say they regretted not getting the P.

    If you care about the acceleration and have to have the quickest thing out there go ahead and get the P, but realize you may have regrets there on the range. If you don't need that then I'm certain you'll be happy with the 85D. In my opinion the only place you're going to end up being disappointed with an 85D is in your ego or the drag strip.
     
  7. swengl

    swengl Member

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2014
    Messages:
    236
    Location:
    Lynchburg, VA
    The added cost and the lower range of the P85D were 2 of the biggest factors in my decision to go with the S85D.
     
  8. apacheguy

    apacheguy Sig 255, VIN 320

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2012
    Messages:
    3,715
    Location:
    So Cal
    Nice comparison. I'm somewhat shocked to see they had a PD available as a loaner though. Thought they'd be production constrained at this point.
     
  9. breser

    breser AutoPilot Nostradamus

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2014
    Messages:
    2,310
    Location:
    North Bend, WA
    Could have been a car that was ordered and then abandoned due to the delays. The door sticker said it was made in December 2014. It had about 1,800 miles on it when I got it. VIN was in the 69k range, so it actually had a higher VIN than my car.
     
  10. RyanT

    RyanT Member

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2014
    Messages:
    184
    Location:
    Portland
    I believe you said the P85D was on version 1.40 so maybe the range difference isn't as great with the added torque sleep? I have a 85D on order so I'm not biased, just a thought.
     
  11. breser

    breser AutoPilot Nostradamus

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2014
    Messages:
    2,310
    Location:
    North Bend, WA
    Could be. My 85D is on .179. Though I've seen plenty of P85D owners saying .167 and .179 are roughly the same as .140. I'm sure Tesla will continue to tweak torque sleep to try and get more range out of the P85D. However, to a degree any success they have there should help the 85D as well. So I doubt the difference I saw will change that much even with future software.
     
  12. Andyw2100

    Andyw2100 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2014
    Messages:
    5,387
    Location:
    Ithaca, NY
    Excellent comparison, breser!



    Very small detail, but the 21" wheels are Turbines, not Cyclones. The Cyclones are 19" wheels.




    .140 is a firmware version that has the torque sleep functionality.
     
  13. breser

    breser AutoPilot Nostradamus

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2014
    Messages:
    2,310
    Location:
    North Bend, WA
    Oops thanks, will fix.

    I read their comment as suggesting that improved torque sleep would help more. But maybe the way you read is what they meant.
     
  14. Canuck

    Canuck Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2013
    Messages:
    3,955
    Location:
    South Surrey, BC
    P85D loaner.... Wow! I wish mine needed to go in the shop in WA. Interesting also that they don't disable insane mode.

    Good and fair comparison thread too. Thanks Breser.
     
  15. breser

    breser AutoPilot Nostradamus

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2014
    Messages:
    2,310
    Location:
    North Bend, WA
    They did limit it to 80. Noticed that when I got on the Interstate on the way to lunch. Speed limit around here is 70, but had a situation where I wanted to go faster than 80 deal with a traffic situation. Got to 79 and had no more power. Actually didn't realize I was going that fast until after it limited me and I saw the speedo.

    I made the comment to my fiancée tonight that just a few months ago Tesla was refusing to let people drive P85Ds and today they sent me home in one as a loaner. Kinda crazy when you think about it.
     
  16. JMG

    JMG Member

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2015
    Messages:
    546
    Location:
    NE Texas
    Well I admit too I haven't seen too many on this forum but I've only been here about 5 days. Here is a thread on TM Forums that has a handful of comments (mainly referring to the S85 vs P85) about it. Folks who stretched to buy Tesla: Given another chance and knowing what you know, will you do it again or regret buying Tesla? | Forums | Tesla Motors
     
  17. breser

    breser AutoPilot Nostradamus

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2014
    Messages:
    2,310
    Location:
    North Bend, WA
    Ahh yes. I agree lots of people felt that way about the older P versions. But there is a huge difference there. The P85 was only about $10k more as opposed to $20k more (that may vary based on your options, I have the Alcantara headliner that's included on the P85D). There was no huge difference in range/efficiency. So given the smaller difference and the lack of significant negatives there were a lot more regrets.
     
  18. stevezzzz

    stevezzzz R;SigS;P85D;SigX

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2009
    Messages:
    6,062
    Location:
    Colorado
    Even though I ended up with the P85D, I still think the S85D is the sweet spot in Tesla's current lineup. For me it was a combination of earlier delivery, 'you only live once' and Next Gen seats (which I still don't have, btw) that tipped me in favor of the P.

    From my experience, I'd say that the P85D achieved near parity with the original S85/P85 (in terms of range) with the rollout of .139/.140 firmware; at least that was true for me when driven conservatively. We all know .167 had Range mode issues and I believe .179 is a step backward in terms of efficiency, somewhere between the poor efficiency under the earliest firmware version delivered with the cars in December 2014 and the quite good efficiency of .139.
     
  19. breser

    breser AutoPilot Nostradamus

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2014
    Messages:
    2,310
    Location:
    North Bend, WA
    Yeah I had a huge debate with myself over if it was worth just paying for the P85D to get it faster. I ended up going with the 85D because I'd already spent more than I wanted due to replacing the S85 I'd just gotten to get the autopilot. The D was a secondary consideration but I found it hard to resist at the then price of $4k.

    With or without range mode? From what I've seen a lot of P85D folks are driving around in range mode when I've only ever used range mode once on my S85 when I was taking a trip that pushed the limits on my range. Haven't even bothered with it on my 85D. Comparing a P85D in range mode to an S85/P85 without range mode doesn't really equal parity to me. Though I'm still fuzzy on what the negatives of range mode really are. I assume there must be some or there wouldn't be a reason to activate it.
     
  20. RyanT

    RyanT Member

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2014
    Messages:
    184
    Location:
    Portland
    Good point and actually I had my versions mixed up and thought .140 didn't have torque sleep. My bad. Also good to hear that 85D seems more efficient, definitely a big part of the reason I ordered it. Looking forward to the trip efficiency comparison with the S85 (if you're still doing it).
     

Share This Page