Complete Removal of Roof Due to Loose Seal

[DarkMatter]

Please recognize that auto manufacturing is very difficult. Even companies that have been doing it for 100+ years get serious things wrong. A couple of examples I remember seeing on Reddit: I thought convertibles are supposed to leak from the top.. • r/Justrolledintotheshop The latest recall from Ford, 15B21. All this because they skipped seam sealer in the A-pillars. This one had 200 miles on it. • r/Justrolledintotheshop
I'm not picking on Ford specifically here, they were just the ones I could bring to mind. Complex manufacturing involves problems. How the company responds and fixes things is as important as how many mistakes they make. Of course the target should be zero faults at delivery. None of the manufacturers are there. The very best manufacturer (Kia!) still had 72 initial quality problems per 100 vehicles. http://www.autonews.com/article/20170621/OEM01/170629948/2017-j-d-power-iqs-kia
It's okay to demand perfection. It also is important to accept making things right.

 

[Sawyer8888]

It's okay to demand perfection. It also is important to accept making things right.

You do provide good examples of how the car industry struggles with manufacturing. However a luxury vehicle with a high price tag should have much fewer issues. This is one reason we pay more; it's not just because we want one of the first battery-powered performace vehicles. We expect near perfection when spending +/- $100K on a car, and we are willing to pay for that perfection. The multiple minor problems with Teslas detracts from its value and enjoyment IMO.

Sure, Tesla will fix it. That's great. It's the inconvenience that is not so great. But as previously mentioned, it's best to look at and take advantage of the postitives when the car has to go in for service. After all, that's really the best option we have.

Acceptance is important, and I am close to that stage, but I suppose I'm still dealing with a little anger and depression.

 

[DarkMatter]

Did you come from a less expensive car? In my experience less expensive cars are actually much less troublesome than luxury cars. Luxury cars tend to have more hand built parts, more complex parts, and smaller manufacturing volumes. There's a reason Land Rover, Jaguar, and Mercedes are all below average on the IQS.

 

[Sawyer8888]

Did you come from a less expensive car? In my experience less expensive cars are actually much less troublesome than luxury cars. Luxury cars tend to have more hand built parts, more complex parts, and smaller manufacturing volumes. There's a reason Land Rover, Jaguar, and Mercedes are all below average on the IQS.

You do make a good point about less-expensive cars being less troublesome. That appears to be accurate for the most part:

"Mainstream brands collectively had a cumulative higher quality score than all the luxury brands for the first time since 2006."​

Surprise! Non-luxury car brand now tops quality study
​

I thought this was very telling:

"How do the quality ratings for the 2017 Tesla Model S and Model X compare to competitors?

They don't, based off J.D. Power's 2017 U.S. Initial Quality Study. That's not because Tesla Inc. doesn't make quality vehicles, but because it doesn't allow J.D. Power access to its customer registration data for the survey."​

Tesla snubs J.D. Power for Initial Quality Study data​

 

[DarkMatter]

Tesla has repeatedly proven that they really don't want people nosing around in their data. This isn't surprising, even if it does feel a bit unfortunate. Given the volume of deliveries at the service center when I've been there compared to the service volume, things can't be that tragic. I bet they'd actually land on the chart somewhere in Land Rover territory, which isn't great, but is still competitive. Total guess though.

 

[BrokerDon]

Reminds me of the composite roof Chevy glued on the C6 Z06 (2006 - 2015?) Corvettes that would loosen and even fly off at high speed. Chevy had two recalls to fix the issue. First one was remove the original roof and re-glue which failed within months. Second was replace the roof with a brand new roof... including painting the new composite roof to match (expensive). You could tell you roof was starting to let go when you heard wind exiting the roof at speed... or you were in a high pressure car wash and got drenched. Ask me how I know... LOL

Frustrating after paying $75,000 for GM's most expensive car in 2006 but GM eventually got it permanently fixed... which is what warranties are for.

Give Tesla Service a chance to fix it. They've fixed the quality issues with our 2015 inventory P85D quickly and completely. I hope your result is the same since our Tesla is BY FAR the best vehicle I've ever owned in 48 years / 1 million miles of driving.

 

[Sawyer8888]

Update: My car went in on 10/30 for the roof/seal correction and I received it back this morning, 11/18.

I did as most suggested in the poll on this thread - just let Tesla take care of the issue. Although I did ask if there was anything they could do regarding the dent in my bumper...

I'll try to keep it brief:

Pros:

• The panel gap on the rear corners of the roof are now about equal
• The seal on both sides in this area is now fixed in place, but mostly with adhesive as opposed to pressure from the panels.
• A new windshield was installed, which was great since my original had already suffered a few small rock chips.
• My squeaky driver's side interior door panel was resecured with new clips (panel was previously replaced as a courtesy due to a dent in the thin metal trim - not all clips were secure).
• Rear tires were rotated to the front as a courtesy.
• 1400 miles put on the loaner instead of my car. (just regular daily commutes)
• My SC picked my car up at my office and dropped it off at my home.
• I was kept updated via text and occasional phone calls throughout the timeframe.
• The dent in my bumper as a result of road debris was repaired as a courtesy. (>$4100 quote from a Tesla-authorized body shop). This was the second time my SC had my bumper retouched as a goodwill gesture in the 7 months I have owned the car (6 SC visits during this time). I just asked if there was anything they could do in each case without making demands, ready to accept a "no". But they stepped up each time.

Cons:

• The panel gap at the front driver's side corner of the roof panel is now half that of the other side. This is kind of the reverse of the initial issue, but all seals are in place. Hopefully they stay that way.
• The seal in the gap between the roof and side on the passenger side kind of disappears under the roof for a foot or so - oh well.
• There was a sticky black substance on a few panels that came off with Simple Green and some scrubbing.
• I will miss AP1 with rain-sensing wipers, better functioning auto-headlights and speed limit sign recognition in the loaner.
• I will miss the faster acceleration and better handeling of the dual-motor 90D loaner. (RWD-only in my MS60 tends to allow for fishtailing - didn't feel this once in the 90D).

The pros far outweigh the cons, especially the cosmetic bumper repair. My service center has some exceptional employees and the SC manager always does everything in their power to make things right. Tesla is fortunate to have associates like this.

Despite the many minor issues with fit and finish (also an A/C part that failed), my service center has always been receptive and more than accommodating despite my frequent visits - most of which I admit are as a result of my self-diagnosed OCD and my expectations of a luxury car.

 

[eye.surgeon]

I remember this Lexus commercial from 25 years ago. It is meant to show how much attention to detail goes into their cars. I think about this commercial when something isn't quite right in the manufacturing of the cars I have purchased, especially the Tesla. Makes me wonder why I haven't bought a Lexus yet.

I was assuming it was because of this.

 

[Sawyer8888]

View attachment 261170
I was assuming it was because of this.

Ok. Good point. I think that front grill is a monstrosity on the Lexus. I have actually said I would not purchase a Lexus for that exact reason.

 

[Siggy101]

Well, it's been almost exactly the 3 months that we talked about. Let's have that beer...

I'm so pleased to hear that you are feeling good after letting them do their thing.
I remember having the exchange with you in August when you really were not sure about letting them take the roof off.
I doubt you have forgotten about the roof but now it's resolved you will do in time.
Did they redo the expel for you as promised too?

How about those 1400 reasons to smile then? Did you get to take your good lady for a weekend away? At 1400 miles in 18 days, you certainly got some serious miles out of the loaner!
That's also awesome that they replaced the windscreen and fixed the ding in the bumper. I cannot think of any other brand doing such extensive work on top of seriously expensive warranty work!

It is good to hear that Tesla continues to amaze owners the world over.

My car is sadly going in tomorrow morning. SvC visit number 9 in 8 months.
Some issues seem to need many go's in order to get fixed!!
I'm going to have to take a leaf out of my own book and plan a weekend away... (although they say it'll be a one day job. Where have I heard that before?)

Enjoy your refreshed ride!!

 

[Mirlen]

Ok. Good point. I think that front grill is a monstrosity on the Lexus. I have actually said I would not purchase a Lexus for that exact reason.

 

[Sawyer8888]

Well, it's been almost exactly the 3 months that we talked about. Let's have that beer.

Cheers. We unfortunately did not make time for a weekend getaway. Most of the mileage was a result of my daily commute from home to office and back.

The roof was kept in one piece, so they didn't need to pay any new Xpel. And since the bumper repair was my request, I am responsible for the Xpel there.

Hopefully you and your wife are able to enjoy some time away via the loaner. All the best to you and Tesla on this 9th visit to the SC.

 

[SMAlset]

Ok. Good point. I think that front grill is a monstrosity on the Lexus. I have actually said I would not purchase a Lexus for that exact reason.

Everytime I see this vehicle on the road I think the same thing! I find it jarring and massively ugly, looks like a Mac Truck to me. I use to think the Lexus was a nice luxury car but if I can't look at the whole car and feel good about it, that's not something I want to park in my driveway. I was disappointed in the look of the new Toyotas as well (we've been Toyota owners for many years). It is funny how design changes can affect you. Like I'm also really bothered by that back odd rear window on the BMW i3 jogging down below the line of the front window. It so looks like an design flaw to me. I don't care for the hood grill either. LOL.

Back on topic however I would definitely let Tesla redo the roof if they thought that was an option. Especially for an issue where it's not just cosmetic. Cosmetic, maybe you think about the level of inconvenience as to how much it bothers you and that's going to be a very individual thing.