Comprehensive USB Bug List

[neroden]

When I got my Tesla 2.5 years ago, the most frustrating bug, by far, was that listening to USB audio books and podcasts was nearly impossible because the car's player would not keep its position after power off. In fact, sometimes it resets to the beginning of the podcast while I'm driving.

I was so certain that this would be fixed in a software patch within a month or two. But it has now been 2.5 years and despite USB playback updates, the problem is still there.

My lease is up in 5 months. I don't plan to get another Tesla... it's terrifying to think my life is in the hands of a car company who can't get something right that is so basic.

Yep. And this is the sort of thing which will kill Tesla. Not next year, but in a couple of years, people will stop tolerating this bullcrap.

 

[neroden]

I'm going to be out of town for a while and dealing with some craziness at home when I get back, but sometime later this year (likely October or later) I might organize something to try to get something done about this; anyone who wants to potentially be part of a united front here should feel free to PM me. If anyone else is organizing something, *please* PM me.

 

[DaiPlusPlus]

Tesla's policy of pirating open-source software misses the whole point of open-source software.

They aren't pirating anything - I understand the MCU's software-stack is largely built with Qt on Linux and they're using both in accordance with their respective licenses (GPLv2 for Linux, and Qt's commerical license) - and they're probably using a smattering of Apache, BSD and MIT-licensed libraries too. The problem we have is the "Tivoization" issue where companies are technically compliant with GPLv2 despite not giving users any way to modify and install the software on the hardware because the devices themselves are locked-down - if Linux was GPLv3 - or it's discovered they're using anything under GPLv3 then we'd have a case - but until then we're stuck.

Getting to the firmware isn't straightforward - we can't simply intercept the downloads (e.g. by disabling the LTE radio so the car uses Wi-Fi, with our own proxy set-up) because the connection is likely encrypted and there's no way to install a new root CA or trusted certificate list in the car so the proxy wouldn't see anything. Another issue is that the firmware updates are incremental, not complete - so intercepting firmware downloads, even if we could decypt them, won't give us the full picture.

...instead we'd have to dig out the MCU from the car and mount the flash storage chips on another computer assuming they aren't encrypted with some machine key stored on a TPM-like device (a la Bitlocker), in which case the difficulty is now tenfold.

I'm personally not willing to tear-apart the MCU computer in my car, but if someone like RichRebuilds could send-off an MCU to someone who could do it then we'd have a viable method to poke around.

I remember ages ago some people said they were able to access hidden menus and whatnot in the MCU software which I speculated could only be done by tinkering with the firmware - I wonder how they did that.

It's far more likely there's a vulnerability in the USB stack or even the web-browser in the MCU which would allow for the execution of unsigned code, but I wouldn't know where to begin with this - assuming Tesla hasn't aggressively locked-down that avenue. But given that a firmware update can break the heated steering wheel then maybe we shouldn't be so pessimistic?

 

[neroden]

They aren't pirating anything - I understand the MCU's software-stack is largely built with Qt on Linux and they're using both in accordance with their respective licenses (GPLv2 for Linux, and Qt's commerical license)

They were not complying with the GPL v2 last I checked.

Please point me to the "complete corresponding source" for the version of Linux they are using, including configuration files. (Linux has insanely long configuration files.) Last I checked they hadn't published it. If they finally have done so, I'd love to see it.

 

[neroden]

Oh, back on topic. Got a useless response from executive escalation saying "I sent it to the right team, I'll note that it's unresolved", and then stupid platitudes about prioritization

Sent back a letter pointing out that this is a warranty issue since they broke features which were on the car when I bought it, and that this really ought to be a very high priority.

 

[DaiPlusPlus]

They were not complying with the GPL v2 last I checked.

Oh dang - you're right. I found this thread from November of last year: LKML: Geunsik Lim: Re: About GPL license compliance of Tesla Model S, Linux kernel 4.4

Time to send a strongly worded letter to Tesla's legal department

 

[X Fan]

I mentioned this a little while ago but latest SW Rev has significantly cut down rescans and when rescanning its very quick.

 

[Alkettory]

Well, would you look at that. Tesla has released some of the Model S & Model X source code:

Tesla releases source code for some of its in-car tech

teslamotors/buildroot

teslamotors/linux

 

[wdolson]

Interesting

 

[aesculus]

I did a quick scan through the USB stuff and did not see anything obvious wrt my album track issue. Might have to spend a bit more quality time on it.

While no one is going to hack their car with this stuff, perhaps people who know or understand the code could make very specific "recommendations" to Tesla on where to apply fixes for certain issues we face. But of course maybe our issues are on the proprietary code built on top of the base pieces so ...

 

[DaiPlusPlus]

I did a quick scan through the USB stuff and did not see anything obvious wrt my album track issue. Might have to spend a bit more quality time on it.

While no one is going to hack their car with this stuff, perhaps people who know or understand the code could make very specific "recommendations" to Tesla on where to apply fixes for certain issues we face. But of course maybe our issues are on the proprietary code built on top of the base pieces so ...

Unfortunately none of the code they've posted relates to the music-library or any user-facing components, really. Those parts of the source-code are not licensed under the GPL so they're under no obligation to release them.

 

[DaiPlusPlus]

I thought of a possible solution to the track-number-ordering problem:

As said before, in Folders view the files are sorted by ID3 Track Name only and not by ID3 Disc Number + Track Number.

I did think about altering my ID3 track names so that they contain the track number, but there's a few problems with that approach:

• As it's (presumably) a lexicographical sort instead of a numeric sort it means most tracks will need a 2-digit (with leading zero) track number, that takes up space.
• The track numbers will appear twice in Normal view (once in the space for actual ID3 track number tags, and again in the title)

I realised that I could insert a sequence of invisible Unicode characters as a prefix of the ID3 Track Name value to establish a desired sort-order without being visible. Specifically we could use "Zero width space" U+200B, or "Invisible separator" U+2063. Assuming Tesla's MP uses a Unicode-compliant library (and doesn't `Trim()` strings) this should work.

This does mean you won't get alphabetical filename sorting in those folders anymore, but I don't think anyone really wants that anyway (and if you have a folder of assorted songs without track numbers then just don't apply this modification).

I'll try this out sometime and see what happens!

I also have a workaround idea for the Compilation Album Artist vs. Artist issue - where for Compilations the Artist tag comes the literal "Various Artists" and the original artist value is prepended into the Track Title - the problem is the layout of the UI means that there's not enough space for long track-titles that would embed the artist name. I'll still try it and see what happens though.

 

[BertL]

FWIW, I almost never use Folders View anymore with the tweaks I have come up with in my dBpoweramp conversion process detailed upthread. I am now able to use the (not-so-great) standard MP methods to get to albums, album artist, and genre of my 7K tracks most of the time, and in combination with the not always random play, I’m pretty happy... once I also figured-out and made the move to using only MP3 VBS tracks in my MS which provide me better success with tracks not always starting from the beginning each time I enter my MS, and less unexpected reboots across the last several months of firmware updates.

There are a multitude of ways to try and circumvent the many MP shortcomings that exist — especially when one is focused on accessing their music in certain ways that may be different from others of us. Folder view is fine, but Imprefer the elegance of the “standard” interface alternatives if I can get them to work. I’m glad you’re enjoying the hunt funding some new options for yourself.

For me, I’ve spent literal man-weeks in an effort to understand what did and did not work in MP, then how to create some automated method to minimize problems Tesla imposes on me while still being able to use the non-folder view ways to access my library. Now that I have a process that as long as I don’t mess with it, and neither does Tesla with all their issues — it works fairly well for me most of the time. I’m at least not grunting, groaning, and thinking rude thoughts to myself multiple times each day as I was for so many months trying to just use standard tracks of various types copied from my master library to a USB stick, as I can do with most any other electronic device I’ve ever owned. Besides the problematic service experiences, MP remains my biggest pet pieve with my decision to buy into the Tesla Vision almost 3 years ago, and sadly why I doubt very much Tesla will be in my stable when the time comes to replace my current MS one day.

 

[BionicGuy]

Agreed all around.

Probably the most important thing for me isn't on your list though. When I get back to my car it should keep playing where I left off. This is especially annoying for audio books that I have on a USB drive.

Completely agree with this one. Upon rare occasions it performs as it should, but most times it acts like the USB has just been plugged in and has to read the drive again before showing folders or options. Incredibly frustrating

 

[BionicGuy]

Agreed. Other stuff are nice but this is the only thing I NEED.

And it's strange that my X will reset the USB while my S would continue playing same song and album as before but without showing the song list on the screen.



This certain works but you can also use a tag editor to write album and artist tags to your songs and to sort by them too.

Why oh why does the USB keep resetting after I park and return to my vehicle? Lose the track I was listening to and have to wait many times for the USB to be read again before I can access it. Frustrating performance that shouldn't happen in something like a Tesla (Model X in this case).

 

[BertL]

Why oh why does the USB keep resetting after I park and return to my vehicle? Lose the track I was listening to and have to wait many times for the USB to be read again before I can access it. Frustrating performance that shouldn't happen in something like a Tesla (Model X in this case).

I'm sure most of us here agree with you. MP and solid USB support isn't rocket science or something Tesla has to design, create and maintain from scratch, so there are few excuses. IMO it's just sloppy work on Tesla's part, and sad that Elon and his team do not see it as a quality concern that should have been prioritized by now to resolve long-standing bugs.

Assuming your comment isn't just rhetorical, but with your lower post count, you're perhaps a newer owner seeking some possible relief from the problems you're encountering, here's a few things to try. I realize this is a very long thread, and most of these things have been discussed ad infinatum over the past couple of years, but here's a summary off the top of my head:

Reducing Reboots, Freezes, & Rescans

• USB Error Recovery has not proven itself to be extremely robust -- better than it was, but unexpected reboots, freezes and rescans still occur. In-fact, my SvC and others have told us to unplug any USB device before powering on our MS each and every time -- which of course isn't any sort of practical solution considering the sometimes lengthy rescan involved after a USB device is inserted, and no USB music plays while that is in process for several minutes each time. It's annoying as heck if you're running errands and you get a rescan at every stop along the way.
  • Try a different physical USB Device -- at least a different mfgr of similar device type you're using (stick, SSD) for sure. My former rather extensive testing I summarized upthread showed some sticks and devices gave more problems in the MS, but not in other devices (likely because of poor MS USB error handling). There can of course also be the odd failure of a single USB device.
  • Try a different USB cable. Cheap Chinese knock-offs can give problems that better cables won't. This situation isn't unique to Tesla; Owners in BMW and MBZ have had this resolved with a cable swap, and I saw it a lot with people owning Lexus when I used to help moderate one of those forums.
• Reduce CID Memory Usage. While it's not 100% of what seems to cause CID reboots, MP stalls, and USB rescans, I'd say it more likely than not is what causes most problems for USB MP users. As painful as all these workarounds can be, it's also something you can choose to do something about and likely reduce some portion of your problems. The more of these you do, the more tracks you can likely have in your MS/MX before problems become more pervasive. The issue under the covers is the CID has a fixed amount of memory that all of Tesla's code and working areas have to fit in first (and that has grown over time), then Tesla makes all owner data compete for what's left WHILE NOT IMPOSING any limits on anything as every other mfgr does.
  • Manually delete all of your Nav History (old destinations)
  • Reduce the number of phone contacts and/or data associated with them on any phone you pair with your MS/MX
  • Reduce the number of physical tracks you have on your USB device. Their individual or aggregate physical size isn't an issue for the most part. Each owner has a different what I call "sweet spot" for the number of USB tracks that will work for them. E.g. Even though I've painfully had nearly 20K tracks in my MS, and at least one other person that has contributed to this thread in the past says they maintain 12-15K, my "sweet spot" is around 7K. As I go over that number (in combination with minimal meta tag data), I have increasing frequency of unexpected reboots and rescans.
  • Reduce the physical amount of meta tag data on each of your tracks. That includes album art and it's size. Consider using an application to do this across all your tracks as you copy them to your Tesla USB device. See a lengthy post 2-4 pages upthread of the automated process I use to build my USB device. From that, you'll be able to pick up many of the little things I do to try and decrease memory usage across each of my tracks, so I can have more tracks available in my MS.
  • Flatten the directory structure on your USB device. Try to keep your tracks within just one or two directories off the root. More seem to work, but other mfgrs like Lexus, BMW and MBZ have documented limits on 6-8 maximum depth. Regardless, more depth to your directory structure will consume more memory ... how much that may be is anyone's guess.
  • I've not proven this conclusively, but try running your Nav display in only "line mode" display, opposed to the satellite view, and perhaps in half-screen size vs full-screen. The way tiles are brought down from the mothership, there is a lot less data associated a basic graphical display, opposed to essentially scalable photos used in satellite view.

Playback

• Sadly, not all encoding formats that appear to successfully playback in MP (there is no written list of what is supported) do so with the same reliability and perhaps functionality. E.g. I know for a fact that once I converted all my tracks from FLAC to MP3 VBS for use in my MS several months ago, I more often than not am now listening to the same track upon re-entry. I don't have the "restart from the beginning" issue you describe any more because I moved to an essentially lossless MP3 format.
• Pressing Pause before you exit your MS may provide some relief. I never personally found this to be a solid solution to the "restarting from the beginning" problem in the past, but others in this thread have reported success from time-to-time. I'm just not sure it's a real solution with current firmware levels, as I've not tried it recently.

Good luck!

 

[neroden]

Just bumping the thread to note that nothing has been fixed. I was forced-updated due to another firmware bug and now I have a warranty claim against Tesla for the things which worked when I got the car which they have subsequently broken.

I'm quite busy right now, but I'm actively interested in running a lawsuit against Tesla later in the year. It seems to be the only way to get their *attention*.

 

[X Fan]

Just bumping the thread to note that nothing has been fixed. I was forced-updated due to another firmware bug and now I have a warranty claim against Tesla for the things which worked when I got the car which they have subsequently broken.

I'm quite busy right now, but I'm actively interested in running a lawsuit against Tesla later in the year. It seems to be the only way to get their *attention*.

Given your litigious view, you should change your tag line from “happy Model S owner”.

FWIW: although Tesla’s USB approach has its shortcomings, I’ve found that by re-tagging I’m able to enjoy my 6k of songs without limitations (particularly since I no longer get the rescans after last two sw updates).

 

[Alkettory]

Just bumping the thread to note that nothing has been fixed. I was forced-updated due to another firmware bug and now I have a warranty claim against Tesla for the things which worked when I got the car which they have subsequently broken.

I'm quite busy right now, but I'm actively interested in running a lawsuit against Tesla later in the year. It seems to be the only way to get their *attention*.

I hear that Elon is unusually responsive on Twitter right now, if you're looking for some abuse.

 

[wdolson]

Given your litigious view, you should change your tag line from “happy Model S owner”.

FWIW: although Tesla’s USB approach has its shortcomings, I’ve found that by re-tagging I’m able to enjoy my 6k of songs without limitations (particularly since I no longer get the rescans after last two sw updates).

I don't play things on USB all that often, but while it has some odd quirks, it's light years ahead of my last car. My last car was a Buick Roadmaster I bought new in 1992. I drove it 24 years. One of the reasons I didn't replace it sooner was my old Buick was just as good or better in many critical areas as modern ICE. Gas mileage for the same performance is actually worse for many newer cars, and never better.

The infortainment system was rather primitive though, this is what I had:
92-93 Buick Roadmaster AM FM Cassette Radio 16120814 OEM 69K | eBay

The spring on the tape eject gave up the ghost around year 20 and while it still played tapes, I have to keep a pair of pliers in the car to remove them when I ejected. The AM section of the radio went out around year 15 and I could only listen to FM.

The USB media thing with Tesla does have problems, but when it does irritate me, I think about what life was like only two short years ago. It's Sopwith Camel to F-86 difference.

I do still wish Tesla would get it fixed, or find someone willing and able to do it as an outside contractor.

I hear that Elon is unusually responsive on Twitter right now, if you're looking for some abuse.

Someone on Twitter made Elon aware the Model 3 doesn't do WiFi. Apparently he wasn't aware it was broken. If he never plugs in a memory stick with music, he may be unaware of the problems with the media player.