Concerns over Model 3 Performance brakes efficiency. How good is it? After market brakes?

[GasGasGas]

Hi

I had a great opportunity to buy a brand-new model 3 performance from someone else. Apparently, he needs that money for his business. The car is arriving mid-late next month. Despite ordering the Performance model, I’ve never driven it. I’ve ridden in it. It was amazingly quick as my head was pushed towards the sofa-like head rest.

The dealer that I got the deal from let me drive the model 3 long range dual motors. I was impressed by the swiftness despite its weight. The only downside that stands out to me is the brake. The suspension is a bit loose but not too hard to control. The engine brake is awesome.

Brakes are bad. I mean.. really bad. To give a little bit of my background. I currently own a 991.2 Carrera GTS and a F90 M5 competition. These cars have good brakes. M5 is a bit over 2tons including me and it brakes really well. I know they are in a different class. What I am trying to say is, the brakes feeling of the model 3 feels incredibly loose. It’s like it wouldn’t stop.

I know that it was the LR dual motors. I wonder if the Performance model offers a substantially better brakes. How well do they perform? Is the initial bite more noticeable? Should I get a set of aftermarket brakes like Brembo, Alcon?

Thanks.

 

[smokin'joeblow]

I would guess the difference you felt is more tires than brakes. The long range probably had grand touring all season tires on it (if the tire fitment in Thailand is similar to ours). I assume you have performance rubber on your other cars.

 

[MasterC17]

The Base brakes do feel bad. You have to really get on them to achieve the desired response. The Performance brakes on the other hand, while not great, are a considerable improvement in terms of feel.

There's nothing wrong with the Base brakes, they just have a very non-aggressive pad. Putting more responsive pads in a Base would resolve the concern.

That being said, I think you will find the Performance brakes to be acceptable.

 

[Mash]

Performance brakes are acceptable, but really low bite. Easy fix with different pads. There is no reason to upgrade calipers for street use.

 

[Gasaraki]

I currently own a 991.2 Carrera GTS and a F90 M5 competition. These cars have good brakes

Umm yeah, I sure hope so. And I can't even believe you are putting the M3 LR AWD in the same class as those sports cars.

Yes, the M3P has bigger Brembo brakes.

 

[Gasaraki]

Hi

I had a great opportunity to buy a brand-new model 3 performance from someone else. Apparently, he needs that money for his business. The car is arriving mid-late next month. Despite ordering the Performance model, I’ve never driven it. I’ve ridden in it. It was amazingly quick as my head was pushed towards the sofa-like head rest.

The dealer that I got the deal from let me drive the model 3 long range dual motors. I was impressed by the swiftness despite its weight. The only downside that stands out to me is the brake. The suspension is a bit loose but not too hard to control. The engine brake is awesome.

Brakes are bad. I mean.. really bad. To give a little bit of my background. I currently own a 991.2 Carrera GTS and a F90 M5 competition. These cars have good brakes. M5 is a bit over 2tons including me and it brakes really well. I know they are in a different class. What I am trying to say is, the brakes feeling of the model 3 feels incredibly loose. It’s like it wouldn’t stop.

I know that it was the LR dual motors. I wonder if the Performance model offers a substantially better brakes. How well do they perform? Is the initial bite more noticeable? Should I get a set of aftermarket brakes like Brembo, Alcon?

Thanks.

The Tesla brakes are already Brembos. As others have said, just change out the pads.

 

[Motion122]

Porterfield makes a very decent sets of R4-S performance street pads for the Model 3

 

[RacerChris]

Hi

I had a great opportunity to buy a brand-new model 3 performance from someone else. Apparently, he needs that money for his business. The car is arriving mid-late next month. Despite ordering the Performance model, I’ve never driven it. I’ve ridden in it. It was amazingly quick as my head was pushed towards the sofa-like head rest.

The dealer that I got the deal from let me drive the model 3 long range dual motors. I was impressed by the swiftness despite its weight. The only downside that stands out to me is the brake. The suspension is a bit loose but not too hard to control. The engine brake is awesome.

Brakes are bad. I mean.. really bad. To give a little bit of my background. I currently own a 991.2 Carrera GTS and a F90 M5 competition. These cars have good brakes. M5 is a bit over 2tons including me and it brakes really well. I know they are in a different class. What I am trying to say is, the brakes feeling of the model 3 feels incredibly loose. It’s like it wouldn’t stop.

I know that it was the LR dual motors. I wonder if the Performance model offers a substantially better brakes. How well do they perform? Is the initial bite more noticeable? Should I get a set of aftermarket brakes like Brembo, Alcon?

Thanks.

I race a Model 3 Stealth (Performance model without the big brakes) and they do fine in autocross - I think with a good brake bleed and good pads they can feel more aggressive, but a big limit is probably the base model tires. I was coming from a Porsche Boxster and the Porsche had amazing brakes (but I don't feel like the M3's suck).

They do get hot though - I would not recommend for track days without some work.

 

[asian_xl]

365mm+ is definitely should be standard size with all model 3. Paragon is a great pick

 

[Uncle Paul]

Your Porsche and BMW are have world class autobahn tuned suspensions and brakes. The Performance Model 3 has good brakes, but not in the same class as those. If you want to have brakes that feel like that, then you are probably wanting to upgrade.

On the other hand, in normal, non track driving, the Performance Model 3 has pretty good brakes. In addition to their Brembo brakes it also has built in regenerative braking, that uses the traction motors to slow the car as well. Offers fantastic one pedal driving under most conditions and takes much of the load off the friction brakes.

 

[Dangerous Fish]

Properly bedding the OE pads and discs makes a lot of difference to the bite and feel.

After that, upgraded pads should be enough for any road driving.

 

[Vines]

I would say the Performance brakes are good enough but not amazing. With pads and fluid they are good enough for light track driving. Upgraded rotors from MPP will give both better air cooling and better mass.

Really though the tires on the base model are pretty hard. You will get much better braking with good tires as well.

 

[Knightshade]

For street use the only thing that matters are the tires as far as actually stopping.

Wanna stop shorter? You need better tires. This is the obvious difference between the LR AWD On crappy all-seasons vs the P on performance summer tires.

Put the same performance tires on the LR AWD and it'll stop in the same distance as the P.


Only thing changing brakes will do for you there is change the feel not the actual braking.

The base brakes will stop the car in exactly the same distance as the most expensive high end brake kit you can buy if the tires are the same, because the tires, not the brakes, are what stop the car.

What bigger brakes can do on a track is let you abuse them over repeated high speed stops without making the distance longer on later stops (plus the benefits to "feel" to suit your tastes).

It can't ever make it stop shorter, because physics.

(anyone who doesn't think so, I'd encourage to read this essay- author teaches SAE master classes on braking system design, has designed braking systems for Stoptech and numerous car makers, and has literally written books on the topic)

GRM Pulp Friction

 

[Dangerous Fish]

For street use the only thing that matters are the tires as far as actually stopping.

Wanna stop shorter? You need better tires. This is the obvious difference between the LR AWD On crappy all-seasons vs the P on performance summer tires.

Put the same performance tires on the LR AWD and it'll stop in the same distance as the P.


Only thing changing brakes will do for you there is change the feel not the actual braking.

The base brakes will stop the car in exactly the same distance as the most expensive high end brake kit you can buy if the tires are the same, because the tires, not the brakes, are what stop the car.

What bigger brakes can do on a track is let you abuse them over repeated high speed stops without making the distance longer on later stops (plus the benefits to "feel" to suit your tastes).

It can't ever make it stop shorter, because physics.

(anyone who doesn't think so, I'd encourage to read this essay- author teaches SAE master classes on braking system design, has designed braking systems for Stoptech and numerous car makers, and has literally written books on the topic)

GRM Pulp Friction

The OP is asking about bite and feel, not stopping distance and that is all about the pads in the Model 3. They lack bite and feel.

 

[Knightshade]

The OP is asking about bite and feel, not stopping distance and that is all about the pads in the Model 3. They lack bite and feel.

He also asked about how they perform. Specifically.

I wonder if the Performance model offers a substantially better brakes. How well do they perform?

So I addressed both that AND the feel, and what impacts each thing... (tires on the street for performance, brake parts on the street for feel- both for both on a track though in specifically different ways (stopping distance vs fade resistance).

 

[asian_xl]

I have P-, the stock brake is alright on normal driving. but It doesn't stop well when you slam on the pedal at high speed or hard braking. Even I have fat tires, it doesn't grab tight

 

[bobby g]

365mm+ is definitely should be standard size with all model 3. Paragon is a great pick

View attachment 632443

2 piece rotors have to help. Those and pads on the performance model would be nice

 

[Mash]

I have P-, the stock brake is alright on normal driving. but It doesn't stop well when you slam on the pedal at high speed or hard braking. Even I have fat tires, it doesn't grab tight

I have to say that high speed braking mostly comes from the downforce. And unfortunately stock Model 3 aero has a slight lift, so brake torque decreases with a speed. The rest is a feel, unless stock pads epoxy is boiling within a single brake from the top speed, which can be a thing, but I didn't see anyone tested it.

 

[Knightshade]

I have P-, the stock brake is alright on normal driving. but It doesn't stop well when you slam on the pedal at high speed or hard braking. Even I have fat tires, it doesn't grab tight

it stops in exactly the same distance as the P+ with the same tires.

The tires, not the brakes, determine stopping distance. That's how physics works.

The brakes (AND the tires) determine subjective "feel"

See also the $10,000 brake upgrade kit Porsche offers, that also stops the car in the same distance as the stock brakes when on the same tires.


Now, if you're on a track stopping from 120 mph for the 4th time within a couple of minutes, the smaller/weaker system might start taking longer until they cool.... but bigger brakes can't ever make you stop shorter the first time from any speed you'd drive on a public road.

 

[offhegoes]

it stops in exactly the same distance as the P+ with the same tires.

The tires, not the brakes, determine stopping distance. That's how physics works.

The brakes (AND the tires) determine subjective "feel"

See also the $10,000 brake upgrade kit Porsche offers, that also stops the car in the same distance as the stock brakes when on the same tires.


Now, if you're on a track stopping from 120 mph for the 4th time within a couple of minutes, the smaller/weaker system might start taking longer until they cool.... but bigger brakes can't ever make you stop shorter the first time from any speed you'd drive on a public road.

I applaud this post.