Conditional Speed Limits Feature (2019.16)

[diplomat33]

The upcoming 2019.16 update promises a new feature called "Conditional Speed Limits". The release notes description reads as follows:

"Your vehicle will now display conditional speed limits, such as speed limit based on time of day, weather condition, etc. If there is a conditional speed limit for your current road, it will be displayed in grey below the regular speed limit sign,”
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These notes don't say how the car will know about conditional speed limits. Will it get the data from GPS? Cameras? Maybe the car will just determine its own conditional speed limit when the cameras detect a lot of rain or detect twilight?

But this is certainly an intriguing feature that seems to be another useful piece of the FSD puzzle. After all, the car being able to set a speed limit based on outside conditions would be important.

Could this be a sign that Tesla is getting closer to camera based speed limit sign recognition or maybe implementing it in shadow mode?

What do you all think of this new feature?

 

[J1mbo]

Probably GPS. These are very common in Europe:

Note, there is no real standard format, and the second limit could well only apply to certain types of vehicle and/or when towing.

 

[diplomat33]

Probably GPS. These are very common in Europe:

View attachment 405167

Note, there is no real standard format, and the second limit could well only apply to certain types of vehicle and/or when towing.

Thanks. If Tesla wants to stick to their camera vision only approach, looks like they have more types of signs to feed the machine learning.

 

[Eno Deb]

I posted this in another thread. Let's see if the vision system can handle this conditional speed limit:

 

[dgatwood]

I posted this in another thread. Let's see if the vision system can handle this conditional speed limit:

Wow. That's very specific. Except for the last part, which is something no self-driving computer will likely ever be able to handle unless it knows what school and can check its calendar. Maybe with the help of some web-based deep-learning setup from Google, it might be possible at some point. Maybe. If the school's schedule is posted online in a fashion that is digestible. Maybe. Big maybe.

These are the sorts of situations where a radio beacon would be a better approach.

Or better, a "when flashing" sign.

 

[curry684]

I posted this in another thread. Let's see if the vision system can handle this conditional speed limit:

I doubt all too many humans would process this one completely correctly AND in time...

 

[Eno Deb]

I doubt all too many humans would process this one completely correctly AND in time...

Yep. But there is a real issue behind this. Many street signs in the US use natural language instructions rather than formalized language. They can often only be properly interpreted with contextual knowledge (for example, in this case you have to know what a "school day" is) and understanding that self-driving cars today do not have.

 

[diplomat33]

I posted this in another thread. Let's see if the vision system can handle this conditional speed limit:

it's signs like that, that make the case for why we desperately need to update our road infrastructure to cater to autonomous vehicles. It would be so much better to replace that sign with an electronic device that sends a signal to autonomous vehicles telling them what the speed limit is. In the future, our roads may have these futuristic towers like this instead of traditional signs that can track cars and send them information.

 

[Randy7fx]

Yep. But there is a real issue behind this. Many street signs in the US use natural language instructions rather than formalized language. They can often only be properly interpreted with contextual knowledge (for example, in this case you have to know what a "school day" is) and understanding that self-driving cars today do not have.

True, but I would argue most humans wouldn't even be able to determine what "school days only" means. Is it Monday to Friday? What about "Sunday School" that many religious affiliated schools have. What about a summer break, Christmas break, fall break, spring break, or any other holiday where a school is closed. I don't think a human would be able to determine this with 100% accuracy. I know I certainly wouldn't. Perhaps I look in the parking lot and see there are no cars parked there and assume its not a school day. Or maybe the school is being used as a voting location and the parking lot is full.

 

[Eno Deb]

True, but I would argue most humans wouldn't even be able to determine what "school days only" means. Is it Monday to Friday? What about "Sunday School" that many religious affiliated schools have. What about a summer break, Christmas break, fall break, spring break, or any other holiday where a school is closed. I don't think a human would be able to determine this with 100% accuracy. I know I certainly wouldn't.

Most people will be able to make a good guess.

Perhaps I look in the parking lot and see there are no cars parked there and assume its not a school day.

That's a good example of a level of reasoning that is not available in AI technologies used in AVs today.

 

[TonyT]

I posted this in another thread. Let's see if the vision system can handle this conditional speed limit:

Actually I would expect vision to handle this better. If there is process to scrape the school's website, the combo of gps should be able to determine school. Then proper speed limit could be displayed.

 

[brianman]

I'd probably put it at 20mph and put my hazards on for the whole zone, regardless of time of day.

 

[dgatwood]

it's signs like that, that make the case for why we desperately need to update our road infrastructure to cater to autonomous vehicles. It would be so much better to replace that sign with an electronic device that sends a signal to autonomous vehicles telling them what the speed limit is. In the future, our roads may have these futuristic towers like this instead of traditional signs that can track cars and send them information.

And the first time somebody in another country hacks one of them remotely to say that the speed limit is 135 MPH and a fleet of self-driving cars mows down a schoolyard full of kids, those things go in the dumpster.

A "speed limit 15 MPH when flashing" sign, even if hacked, can only slow cars down. It's really a much saner, safer approach.

 

[DerekP]

Conditional speed limits didn’t appear in 2019.16.2 for me in the USA. No mention of it at all. Maybe it’s just a feature coming to Europe for now?

I have to imagine that Tesla is close to reading signs. If they will be autonomous capable by year end, they can’t be speeding through school zones. Unless they plan to just use GPS and give plenty of buffer around the school zone.

 

[Pale_Rider]

Yeah, didn’t get that feature either on my AP2.0 car...

 

[f205v]

I posted this in another thread. Let's see if the vision system can handle this conditional speed limit:

What if my watch is a couple of minutes off and I get a ticket? Can I legally challenge it?

 

[renim]

What if my watch is a couple of minutes off and I get a ticket? Can I legally challenge it?

Are you serious?

 

[ai4px]

You know I'd be happy if my car would slow down BEFORE teh speed limit drops. It often goes more than 3 seconds past the speed limit sign before beginning to slow down.

 

[MorrisonHiker]

You know I'd be happy if my car would slow down BEFORE teh speed limit drops. It often goes more than 3 seconds past the speed limit sign before beginning to slow down.

There's a spot on my commute where the speed drops from 50 mph to 45 mph. Typically I have my speed set to 55 mph and before I reach the 45 mph sign, the speed automatically lowers by 5 mph.

So it does work in some places but is still limited in accuracy by the maps. Over the past few years, the map accuracy has gotten better for the most part but there are still some places which have always been wrong or have gotten less accurate.

 

[ai4px]

There's a spot on my commute where the speed drops from 50 mph to 45 mph. Typically I have my speed set to 55 mph and before I reach the 45 mph sign, the speed automatically lowers by 5 mph.

So it does work in some places but is still limited in accuracy by the maps. Over the past few years, the map accuracy has gotten better for the most part but there are still some places which have always been wrong or have gotten less accurate.

yes, that's nice and all, but how /far/ past the 45mph speed sign did it slow down? for me, it's well inside the 45zone before it even starts to slow... it's a speeding ticket waiting to happen. I mean, really, I have to look up from my phone, move my coffee to the other hand and slow the cardown before it does it on its own. lol.