Condo Charging - Minimal cost installation and some questions

[RubberToe]

I initiated the process today with Bosch. They are ordering the EV charger and shipping it directly to the electrician who will be installing it. The reason I delayed so long in starting this is the $3,800 cost. Per the previous post they do need to run new wiring from the meter to the panel in my condo, replace the panel, and then run new wiring down to where the EV charger will be going. Now that my EV purchasing plans are somewhat firmer, I decided to do this despite the cost.

I'm guessing that unless the city decides to start allowing the installation of new meters, which would reduce the cost considerably, there won't be anyone else taking the plunge in my building due to the cost. What we would probably end up doing is converting several of the parking spaces near our main building electrical panel to EV parking spots, and just wire the chargers into the building supply. And then figure out how to charge individual users of the chargers. That is a bridge we will cross when we come to it.

RT

 

[Perfect_Flaw]

I'm sure when the Model 3 is released in 2019 after all the delays you will probably have to rethink your charging situation then. But good luck either way.

 

[RubberToe]

Application submitted to HOA just now. 11 pages of supporting documentation (permits, insurance, etc.) and a 3 page application that contains the formal signed request and the Davis-Sterling description of the process to be followed.

RT

 

[RubberToe]

HOA approved the installation at yesterdays meeting. There was much discussion about how to handle additional requests as they come up, primarily because my install involves running very little conduit in the garage. Other installations would have to run more, unless we reassigned parking spaces. The installation will take place on November 13th and 14th. I will be without power for those 2 days.

RT

 

[Chipper]

HOA approved the installation at yesterdays meeting. There was much discussion about how to handle additional requests as they come up, primarily because my install involves running very little conduit in the garage. Other installations would have to run more, unless we reassigned parking spaces. The installation will take place on November 13th and 14th. I will be without power for those 2 days.

RT

Happy for you. Congrats!!

 

[RubberToe]

Well, some good news and bad news after the first couple hours on the installation today. The good news is that the Bosch charger is now installed. The bad news is that the new main panel for my unit is 14" x 16" which is apparently the current standard size. My old panel is only 10" wide. They cannot put the new panel in unless they cut through some studs, which may be structural. The company is going to push back on the city and see if they will allow a direct line from the meter in the garage to my charger, and leave the panel in my unit alone. I should find out something later today.

RT

 

[KJD]

What we would probably end up doing is converting several of the parking spaces near our main building electrical panel to EV parking spots, and just wire the chargers into the building supply. And then figure out how to charge individual users of the chargers. That is a bridge we will cross when we come to it.
RT

What you could do is buy your own meter to measure the individual stalls electrical usage. Then bill from that. They really do not cost that much.
EZ Read FM2S 200A 240V 3W Meter

 

[Barry]

What you could do is buy your own meter to measure the individual stalls electrical usage. Then bill from that. They really do not cost that much.
EZ Read FM2S 200A 240V 3W Meter

Do you know if that meter will work with 208V (single phase)?

 

[KJD]

Well, some good news and bad news after the first couple hours on the installation today. The good news is that the Bosch charger is now installed. The bad news is that the new main panel for my unit is 14" x 16" which is apparently the current standard size. My old panel is only 10" wide. They cannot put the new panel in unless they cut through some studs, which may be structural. The company is going to push back on the city and see if they will allow a direct line from the meter in the garage to my charger, and leave the panel in my unit alone. I should find out something later today.
RT

What ever happened with this, did you come up with a solution ?

 

[RubberToe]

Yes, the city is going to allow a run from the main panel in the garage directly to my parking space. The distance is about 30'. The install is scheduled for 11-26-14. This has the added benefit of knocking about $1k off the overall price. I was told yesterday that the install will take most of a day, and the power will be off for about 2-3 hours. I'll post pictures and additional information after the install is done.

I plan to follow up with electric bill changes due to the charging. My power runs about $0.24/kwh, and an initial back of the envelope calculation showed that at that rate, the electrons are going to be costing me more than gas. The distribution charge alone for the 100th to 450th kwh is I believe $0.12. Pasadena dropped their TOU meters fairly recently. Those rates were fixed at $0.10 during off peak hours. Not sure why they got rid of those rates, but they are now offering a $400 rebate for EVSE installs, which I will be filling out and getting when the system has been in operation for one year.

If it turns out to be the case that the power I am using ends up costing more than the gasoline equivalent, I may have to get back into "crusader" mode and try turning up the heat on the city. We lowered our building power consumption pretty significantly about 4 years ago when we replaced our circa 1970 fluorescent 8' fixtures with 4' versions that were all individually motion controlled. We were initially saving $500 per month on our bill, but due to electric rate increases since then, we are back to where we were originally while using about 30% less power .

At some point in the future we will cover the roof with solar panels and tell the power company to "take a hike". I'll likely have to be HOA President again to make this happen, and the economics will have to either be positive or close enough to justify making the leap. With panel costs dropping 20-30% a year, it would be stupid to pull the trigger too soon.

RT

 

[RubberToe]

Install was done yesterday. It took them only about 2.5 hours. The cost of the charger itself was $593, plus $25 shipping plus $53 tax. Total $671. The city rebate of $400 will be a year down the road. The install itself ran $2,157 for labor and material, and the permit from the city was $97. Grand total turned out to be $2,925. Labor and material cost seem pretty high, I would have expected more like $1,200. But then again, I didn't have to deal with any of the permitting, or spend time trying to hunt down someone qualified to do the job. Everything is also under a 3 year warranty too. So maybe my minimum cost install instead ended up being a maximum cost install :wink:.

Here are the final installation pictures:

My units meter was the one in the lower left of the 6 in that panel. There were originally two large aluminum wires coming out of the top and bottom and going to the main panel in my unit. They replaced these with 100 amp copper, with each going to a separate plastic connector. The original aluminum wire then comes out of there and goes to my main panel. Each of these also has a 60 amp rated copper wire that ends up going out the top of the garage panel to the charger.

There is then a 40 amp circuit breaker next to the meter. It had to be within 10' of the meter, and they put it at basically eye level instead of below since it needed to be a certain height above the garage floor in case of water.

Here is the inside of the 40 amp circuit breaker. It has a cover that can be locked down too. In cases where I want to disconnect the unit and then no one would have access to the charger.

Here is a shot of the entire run.

And finally a shot of the charger itself powered on.

Next update will be when I actually get the vehicle and can report on charging time, and whatever else comes up. Unless anyone has any questions.

RT

 

[tdiggity]

Awesome! Glad you were able to get it done! One suggestion: purchase this lock Power12 Electric Vehicle Aftermarket. Since you're charging in a semi private space, this will make it so people can't disconnect the cable unless the car is unlocked.

 

[RubberToe]

Awesome! Glad you were able to get it done! One suggestion: purchase this lock Power12 Electric Vehicle Aftermarket. Since you're charging in a semi private space, this will make it so people can't disconnect the cable unless the car is unlocked.

I will keep this in mind when I upgrade my soon to be acquired Kia Soul EV to a Model S :smile:

RT

 

[KJD]

Nice installation. I am going to bookmark this thread for when people ask me how to charge an EV in a condo or an apartment building.

 

[RubberToe]

Used the charger for the first time yesterday evening. I'll post a pic later of the Soul EV, and keep that discussion in the proper thread. Everything worked just fine. I plugged the car in and it had about a 77% charge. Back in my unit, a little over an hour later, I checked the phone app and it it had reached 95%. I let it get up to 96% then turned the charger off remotely. I had some time later so I went down to check the car out. I did notice a slight "electronic" smell in the general area of the car front end or charger. I'm attributing this to either the charger first use, the car first (essentially) large charge, or maybe thats just how it is? Curious if anyone else has seen this. I work with all sorts of mostly digital electronics, so I know what a burnt out board smells like, and this was a much more subtle odor. I'll check the unit next time I'm charging, and go down there during the actual charge. Should be sometime later this week.

The installer called me and is looking to set up the final inspection. I'll give him a call and that should be done by the end of the week.

RT

 

[Modelxvin1365]

HOA approved the installation at yesterdays meeting. There was much discussion about how to handle additional requests as they come up, primarily because my install involves running very little conduit in the garage. Other installations would have to run more, unless we reassigned parking spaces. The installation will take place on November 13th and 14th. I will be without power for those 2 days.

RT

Good Speed my freind and im glad you have gotten everything sorted out, Many HOA are organized with citizens in which have no authority outside their meaningless utopia:wink: and are unwilling to accommodate Evs

 

[sefs]

Check for that smell again next time you charge. It could be a loose connection somewhere heating up. These Bosch chargers have connection points that require ring terminal eyelets to be crimped on; it could be a bad crimp. You should have no smell associated with charging.

 

[Schmidty]

I emailed our Property Manager about installing EV charging in my parking spot. His response felt intimidating. Ha. Here is what he said:

I will briefly outline what it will cost you as a homeowner. (We haven't done it at [property] so this is hypothetical, but this is how it goes at other communities)

First, my example below assumes it can be done with reasonable ease at [property]. It likely wont be something the board wants to entertain if it involves a lot of structural stuff (ie tearing down a wall to reach electrical - unlikely anyway, but you understand).

1) The installation would ideally happen at your parking space
2) It would be at your cost
3) A maintenance agreement would need to be prepared by the HOA attorney at your cost which would outline that the HOA is allowing you to proceed and have the electrical installed and that the HOA is indemnified against everything and has no liability.
4) Maintenance agreement would also outline who (homeowner) is responsible for maintaining such charging station.
5) Finally, an agreement would have to be entered in to, if the station cant be separately metered and billed to you, for the payment for the electricity used. Ie. if it is pulling community electric, you as a homeowner would have an increased association due bill to cover the extra electricity used.

In order to accomplish this list, several vendors would have to be hired including an attorney and likely an engineer to work in tandem with the attorney (especially if the charging station cannot be metered separate).

So, if the board wants to entertain this type of precedent, the list above would be a brief outline of the process.

 

[RubberToe]

I emailed our Property Manager about installing EV charging in my parking spot. His response felt intimidating. Ha. Here is what he said:

I will briefly outline what it will cost you as a homeowner. (We haven't done it at [property] so this is hypothetical, but this is how it goes at other communities)

First, my example below assumes it can be done with reasonable ease at [property]. It likely wont be something the board wants to entertain if it involves a lot of structural stuff (ie tearing down a wall to reach electrical - unlikely anyway, but you understand).

1) The installation would ideally happen at your parking space
2) It would be at your cost
3) A maintenance agreement would need to be prepared by the HOA attorney at your cost which would outline that the HOA is allowing you to proceed and have the electrical installed and that the HOA is indemnified against everything and has no liability.
4) Maintenance agreement would also outline who (homeowner) is responsible for maintaining such charging station.
5) Finally, an agreement would have to be entered in to, if the station cant be separately metered and billed to you, for the payment for the electricity used. Ie. if it is pulling community electric, you as a homeowner would have an increased association due bill to cover the extra electricity used.

In order to accomplish this list, several vendors would have to be hired including an attorney and likely an engineer to work in tandem with the attorney (especially if the charging station cannot be metered separate).

So, if the board wants to entertain this type of precedent, the list above would be a brief outline of the process.

Schmidty,
That list isn't very far off from what is actually required. Are you an owner or renter? How far is your parking space from your main electrical meter in the garage? There are two different "paths" that need to be taken. The HOA approval path, and the "get all the permits and install the charger" path. The plans do need to be submitted to the HOA for approval, so there is some coordination between the two. There is a company that can pull all the city permits, design and install your system with minimal effort on your part, but you still have to push the approval through the HOA. The HOA can't stop you, but there are rules you need to follow. The guys who pull the city permits and do the design and install aren't cheap. Let me know if you have any questions or want some help. I still on the HOA board, so I know the process from both sides.

RT

 

[Schmidty]

I own. You can see in the pic the Electric Room on the left (the doors). My Tesla is on the right and about 8 car spaces up. In this pic it is the 4th car you see on the right. If you have any advice let me know. My concern was lawyers, engineers, electricians, etc. Just seemed very intimidating and expensive.