Configure Neurio meters to connect via home WIFI

[BGbreeder]

You can't reassign ip addresses on the neurios, without re-bonding them to the Gateway.
My recommended order of events is;

1. Power up the Neurio #1, and configure it for the SSID and static address reserved below (notes elsewhere here)
   1. If the static IP address and SSID is already set, you can skip this.
2. Ditto for Neurio #2
3. Reserve static IP addresses for Neurio #1, #2, and the Gateway in your router, save it, and power cycle your router
   1. Then check that the addresses are in your router after rebooting.
   2. If possible, get the MAC addresses for your Neurios at this point
   3. Make sure that all three (Neurio, and gateway) are on the same network (SSID)
   4. WiFi repeaters are highly discouraged as they often shift the IP addresses, and the addresses may not be stable over time, e.g. after a power glitch. My advice is never, but a few folks here have gotten them to work.
4. Power up the gateway and via the TEG-XXXX network,
   1. Set the SSID and password for the Gateway in the Gateway
      1. (you will need installer access rights attached to the login credentials you are using)
   2. Set the address for Neurio #1 (I recommend that you have the MAC address of the Neurio available, so you know which device is which) and save it.
   3. Set the address for Neurio #2 and save it.
   4. Power cycle the Gateway (via cutting the power completely and then pressing and holding the reset button)
   5. Check on your router that the Gateway is now on the right SSID, at the correct address.
   6. Check that the Neurios are where you expect them to be.
5. You should be good to go.

All the best,

BG

 

[Rob Haitch]

Thanks BGbreeder for the walkthrough.

I think we've been through all those steps without luck. I can only guess that there's too many network devices between the Gateway and the neurios, and somehow they are doing something beyond just trying to connect to a specific IP address on the LAN. If they just did a simple connection by IP address I'm confident it'd just work.

This morning I tried just using the Gateway's own wifi signal, and despite the distance involved; around 175m from the carport containing the Gateway and the shed containing the solar inverter, I get around 10% signal there according to a MacBook. I just need to run an antenna cable to bring the antenna outside the shed.

The grid meter is about 120m from the carport, but not as good line of sight. It also gets a weak signal. The electrician needs to fix an incorrect install of this 2nd neurio before I can test that one works too.

The low signal quality is a concern. I tried using a wifi repeater to boost the gateway wifi, but once the neurio attaches to it, the connection to the gateway is lost.

Another option I might try is to create a new stronger signal wifi service in/near the carport to be a dedicated wifi for the neurios and gateway.

Any suggestions/observations would be appreciated.

 

[BGbreeder]

Thanks BGbreeder for the walkthrough.

I think we've been through all those steps without luck. I can only guess that there's too many network devices between the Gateway and the neurios, and somehow they are doing something beyond just trying to connect to a specific IP address on the LAN. If they just did a simple connection by IP address I'm confident it'd just work.

This morning I tried just using the Gateway's own wifi signal, and despite the distance involved; around 175m from the carport containing the Gateway and the shed containing the solar inverter, I get around 10% signal there according to a MacBook. I just need to run an antenna cable to bring the antenna outside the shed.

The grid meter is about 120m from the carport, but not as good line of sight. It also gets a weak signal. The electrician needs to fix an incorrect install of this 2nd neurio before I can test that one works too.

The low signal quality is a concern. I tried using a wifi repeater to boost the gateway wifi, but once the neurio attaches to it, the connection to the gateway is lost.

Another option I might try is to create a new stronger signal wifi service in/near the carport to be a dedicated wifi for the neurios and gateway.

Any suggestions/observations would be appreciated.

I am sorry to hear about your problems.

From the observed behavior locally, I suspect that the Gateway and neurio appear to try to communicate directly; I.e. they never ask the router to relay a packet. This leads me to suspect that you can connect via wireless links if and only if they aren't WiFi repeaters in between.

I think anything that you could do to create a stronger signal near the neurio would be a help.

The other observation that I have is that the neurio WiFi, even with their 20cm extension on the antenna is truly weak. I have mine 7m from an outdoor access point rated out to 100m to get a decent signal. So my network is neurio via WiFi to AccessPoint #1, cabled to router, cabled to Access point #2 close to the Gateway, and WiFi to the Gateway. You might look into wireless repeaters (not WiFi!) to move signal out to the main meter and out to the neurio. E.g. a Ubiquiti nanobeam.

All the best,

BG

 

[Rob Haitch]

Thanks BG.

The devices definitely want to be on the same wifi AP, not just the same SSID that the documentation mentions.

I moved an existing outdoor AP that I had about 20 feet so that it had line of sight to all 3 locations, and that seems to have done the trick.
Just waiting on the electrician to install the 2nd neurio correctly (it trips a circuit breaker. The apprentice wired it wrong) and I should be in business. I can see power readings from my solar in the gateway wizard.

It’s frustrating the documentation implies the devices can communicate over a wireless LAN, but fails to mention the key point that they need to be connected via the same Access Point so they route directly to each other with no other network hops.

In my case, the gateway is about 20 metres from my internet router with a strong wifi signal, but the gateway’s traffic now has to travel over 300 metres via 5 network devices to reach the router.

 

[BGbreeder]

Thanks BG.

The devices definitely want to be on the same wifi AP, not just the same SSID that the documentation mentions.

I moved an existing outdoor AP that I had about 20 feet so that it had line of sight to all 3 locations, and that seems to have done the trick.
Just waiting on the electrician to install the 2nd neurio correctly (it trips a circuit breaker. The apprentice wired it wrong) and I should be in business. I can see power readings from my solar in the gateway wizard.

It’s frustrating the documentation implies the devices can communicate over a wireless LAN, but fails to mention the key point that they need to be connected via the same Access Point so they route directly to each other with no other network hops.

In my case, the gateway is about 20 metres from my internet router with a strong wifi signal, but the gateway’s traffic now has to travel over 300 metres via 5 network devices to reach the router.

That's great news. Good on you! Congratulations on getting it all working. Just out of pure curiosity, what brand/model router do you have?

Mine aren't on the same AP, but I do believe that the Tesla devices do something non-standard in their communications. I suspect that it is a form of transmission that is a direct MAC address to MAC transmission that will fail anytime it needs to move across a device that doesn't know where they are, OR is a router that kills pure MAC address traffic for security reasons. Using pure MAC address communication probably adds a layer of security as you can't do man in the middle attacks, but it is the undocumented nature of the communication details that is...annoying.

I do know that mine failed lack of signal strength from the neurio for awhile, before I found a second issue with the saved MAC address at the gateway.

Backstory, perhaps TMI: A technician swapped neurios, added the reserved address, to the new neurio, and we had no communication. (because the Gateway had the old MAC address in its configuration.) When I finally days later thought to check the Gateway configuration, I noticed that the MAC addresses there didn't match the new neurio, though the IP address was correct. Changing the Gateway configuration to reflect the new MAC address got the communications up and running. That is why I am pretty sure that the Gateway/neurio communications is a direct communication via the MAC addresses. I find it very, very, old school Ethernet, as in 1980s Ethernet.

All the best,

BG

 

[Rob Haitch]

My router is a Linksys Velop mesh system, but I also have long distance tplink point to point wifi feeding other APs inside sheds and others giving outdoor wifi. It’s a complex setup, but it all runs on the same LAN and all devices can talk to each other by IP address.
My computers can scan the LAN and see both IP and MAC of all other devices including neurios and the gateway.

My working (so far) system is a wavlink outdoor wifi AP with the neurios and gateway as clients.
The wavlink has ethernet to an Apple Airport Extreme that has ethernet to a tplink cpe 510, that wirelessly connects to another cpe510 that has ethernet to the house router.
Pretty much everything is in bridge mode to retain one big LAN with the velop assigning IPs via DCHP.

 

[BGbreeder]

Thanks!

 

[Sam88]

So I just finished installing Neurio via my home network. First, you have to use Telsa's version of the Neurio, the software is different. Once installed you log in to the Neurio using username:admin password:SERIALOFNEURIO. Then you can select your home wifi network. Then you have to reserve the IP address for the Neurio in your router. Then the tech has to add the IP of the meter to the gateway. Works!

Hi just a question for you, just recently I got my PTO and there is not consumption report. Apparently no neurio device, I called them and they said not all system come compatible with one, is it true or just BS. Thanks

 

[Sam88]

I have a Neurio which I purchased off Ebay and unrelated to a PW install. It works fine but the cloud account is with Generac. The Wifi capability is native but it may have to be configured by Tesla. Have you tried something like a mesh wifi to extend the range?

Hi do you have tesla solar? I recently got the system turned but there is no Neurio. I called them and they said the inverter that I have is not compatible with the Neurio. Some bull anyways can you tell me please what you purchased off the ebay and if it works with the tesla equipment. Thansk

 

[jasondclinton]

Sorry to resurrect this old thread but: thanks for the instructions! I got the Neurio connected to my Ubiquiti network equipment with a reserved IP address with the TEG communicating with it correctly. I'm curious though: is the Neurio's web server supposed to keep running after the TEG takes over? Now that it's online and the CT data is flowing, it seems that the Neurio no longer accepts incoming network requests. nmap reports this:

$ sudo nmap 192.168.1.158
[sudo] password for jclinton:
Starting Nmap 7.93 ( https://nmap.org ) at 2022-11-27 15:10 PST
Nmap scan report for 192.168.1.158
Host is up (0.0057s latency).
Not shown: 999 closed tcp ports (reset)
PORT    STATE    SERVICE
443/tcp filtered https
MAC Address: 04:71:4B:05:1A:96 (Ieee Registration Authority)

Nmap done: 1 IP address (1 host up) scanned in 22.98 seconds

 

[BGbreeder]

Sorry to resurrect this old thread but: thanks for the instructions! I got the Neurio connected to my Ubiquiti network equipment with a reserved IP address with the TEG communicating with it correctly. I'm curious though: is the Neurio's web server supposed to keep running after the TEG takes over? Now that it's online and the CT data is flowing, it seems that the Neurio no longer accepts incoming network requests. nmap reports this:

$ sudo nmap 192.168.1.158
[sudo] password for jclinton:
Starting Nmap 7.93 ( https://nmap.org ) at 2022-11-27 15:10 PST
Nmap scan report for 192.168.1.158
Host is up (0.0057s latency).
Not shown: 999 closed tcp ports (reset)
PORT    STATE    SERVICE
443/tcp filtered https
MAC Address: 04:71:4B:05:1A:96 (Ieee Registration Authority)

Nmap done: 1 IP address (1 host up) scanned in 22.98 seconds

Congratulation!

I was told that the neurio runs its web server for fifteen minutes after power up and then it shuts it off for security purposes.

I have no written documentation's to support that.

All the best,

BG

 

[OldPro]

I have a recent PW install were I have two sets to solar microinverters in remote subpanels. The installer put a Neurio in each of the subpanels but they seem to be too far away to connect via WIFI back to the gateway.

The installer thinks they can be configured to use the home's WIFI but he wasnt sure how. Does anyone know how to configure the meters to work in this way?

When I try to connect to the meter directly via its SSID the webpage for the device asks for a username and password that I dont know and couldnt guess.

Not completely sure what your issue or question is...we have an Orbi system with an Orbi extender from Costco that works fine.

 

[BGbreeder]

And now my neurio can't stay connected to the WiFi. It beeps once a minute or so. A power cycle gets the "I'm happy to connect to my WiFi chimes", and then a few minutes later it starts a single beep about once a minute. It is as if the WiFi radio overloads after a few minutes of operation. Just for the record my phone shows 4/4 bars in front of the neurio, farther from the WiFi access point, and an IOT device a few feet away has never had a connection issue. I'm of the belief that this particular neurio has never really worked. It gave the installation team endless grief. I even completely redid my network for this neurio, and installed an outdoor, long distance access point about fifteen feet away. My phone picks up texts and calls vi the WiFi three hundred feet away from the same AP, i.e. 20X farther.

Anywho...so, rather than camp out on the Tier 1 support line, I notified my Powerwall installer, who contacted Tesla, who came back with "your neurio appears to be dropping off your network".
"Um, yeah, that's why I contact you Tesla". The unprintable version is more like "No , Sherlock."
Tesla's solution was to suggest I read a document entitled something along the lines of "Powerwall AC advanced connection via local WiFi".
OK, I'm up for that. It is something I can do on my own time, and perhaps get it fixed faster, but, wait for it, you have to login in to the Tesla partner site to view it, and Tesla didn't include the authorization. So I get a blank page instead, where you have to read the mile long URL to figure out that access has been denied, after logging in via Tesla's wonderfully simple interface.

Catch 22...I love being asked to follow instructions that the vendor won't give me or make publicly available. (Needless to say, I couldn't find it on the web, either.)

Just sign me "Not A Neurio Fan",

BG

 

[BGbreeder]

Update: the current Tesla plan is to replace the neurio in mid-January sometime. As it isn't mission critical, I can live with it.

I will be interested to see if the tech who comes knows how to install a neurio; three out of three of the previous ones didn't...replacing one is even more complicated.

All the best,

BG

 

[JJ-Moonstone]

Update: the current Tesla plan is to replace the neurio in mid-January sometime. As it isn't mission critical, I can live with it.

I will be interested to see if the tech who comes knows how to install a neurio; three out of three of the previous ones didn't...replacing one is even more complicated.

All the best,

BG

How did you get on BG? Reading this thread with interest, as we are troubleshooting our system and are considering adding a Neurio for communication. Our solar array (with good Starlink WiFi available) is separated from our Tesla Gateway and Powerwalls by 800 feet through the woods. The Tesla Gateway and Powerwalls have their own separate Starlink and WiFi over there. Any ideas for us? Thanks.

 

[BGbreeder]

How did you get on BG? Reading this thread with interest, as we are troubleshooting our system and are considering adding a Neurio for communication. Our solar array (with good Starlink WiFi available) is separated from our Tesla Gateway and Powerwalls by 800 feet through the woods. The Tesla Gateway and Powerwalls have their own separate Starlink and WiFi over there. Any ideas for us? Thanks.

It seems to work now for us. The installer mentioned in passing that he has been using parabolic antennas on neurios to directly send the neurio signal 600', so it might work for you. I suspect that the devil is in the details; clear line of sight, vs trees and hillsides, and how big your antenna is. You might look at log dipole antennas and big parabolic antennas. All of the bigger high gain antennas are going to require some accuracy in mounting and aligning them. But Humboldt county trees are probably going to force you to do something else.

As plan B, you could run the Starlink Powerwall / Gateway WiFi up to the neurio with fiber, but you would have to use a system that enabled you to use reserved static addresses for the Gateway and neurio. (So that is use Starlink for internet access, use a Starlink Ethernet adapter to add a second router at something like 192.168.10.1 (as the Starlink router is at 192.168.1.1) and then Ethernet to fiber modems and fiber up to the neurio and put a fiber to Ethernet modem on a switch with an access point by the neurio. Put the Gateway and neurio on the 192.168.10.X network with reserved addresses. Then program the Gateway for its reserved address in the .10 network, and put the neurio's reserved .10 address into the Gateway, and you should be ok. You have to do the song and dance of the second router because Starlink doesn't reserve addresses, and hands out its 128 addresses scattered throughout the 256 node 192.168.1.N space. I would use armored burial cable, either in the ground, or in the air in your location, as I expect everything to get wet, and to either be hit by branches or chewed on in the ground. Yes, it is not trivial.)

Does that make sense?

All the best,

BG

 

[JJ-Moonstone]

It seems to work now for us. The installer mentioned in passing that he has been using parabolic antennas on neurios to directly send the neurio signal 600', so it might work for you. I suspect that the devil is in the details; clear line of sight, vs trees and hillsides, and how big your antenna is. You might look at log dipole antennas and big parabolic antennas. All of the bigger high gain antennas are going to require some accuracy in mounting and aligning them. But Humboldt county trees are probably going to force you to do something else.

As plan B, you could run the Starlink Powerwall / Gateway WiFi up to the neurio with fiber, but you would have to use a system that enabled you to use reserved static addresses for the Gateway and neurio. (So that is use Starlink for internet access, use a Starlink Ethernet adapter to add a second router at something like 192.168.10.1 (as the Starlink router is at 192.168.1.1) and then Ethernet to fiber modems and fiber up to the neurio and put a fiber to Ethernet modem on a switch with an access point by the neurio. Put the Gateway and neurio on the 192.168.10.X network with reserved addresses. Then program the Gateway for its reserved address in the .10 network, and put the neurio's reserved .10 address into the Gateway, and you should be ok. You have to do the song and dance of the second router because Starlink doesn't reserve addresses, and hands out its 128 addresses scattered throughout the 256 node 192.168.1.N space. I would use armored burial cable, either in the ground, or in the air in your location, as I expect everything to get wet, and to either be hit by branches or chewed on in the ground. Yes, it is not trivial.)

Does that make sense?

All the best,

BG

Thank you BG. That really lays out some options for us and gives us a realistic picture of how these solutions are very high tech and complex, but doable. Yes we live in the redwoods and the 800 feet distance is through large trees, so line of sight is not an option for us. In the meantime our Powerwalls are now working fine again, so for the interim we may hang tight and hope for some new simple cloud solution between the SunPower-Superviser and the Tesla gateway. Easy to forget that this is all such new technology and as more and more people install solar+batteries, there will be more edge cases like ours that get solved. Just now our installer let us know that he can do what looks like a simple low-tech solution which will work. The solar CT requires two wires, typically he uses 16awg wire when it’s all fairly close. With the 800’ he would use (2) 12awg wires pulled through communication conduit to make the solar CT connection at the house. We will keep you posted.
Thanks so much for all your input!

 

[BGbreeder]

Thank you BG. That really lays out some options for us and gives us a realistic picture of how these solutions are very high tech and complex, but doable. Yes we live in the redwoods and the 800 feet distance is through large trees, so line of sight is not an option for us. In the meantime our Powerwalls are now working fine again, so for the interim we may hang tight and hope for some new simple cloud solution between the SunPower-Superviser and the Tesla gateway. Easy to forget that this is all such new technology and as more and more people install solar+batteries, there will be more edge cases like ours that get solved. Just now our installer let us know that he can do what looks like a simple low-tech solution which will work. The solar CT requires two wires, typically he uses 16awg wire when it’s all fairly close. With the 800’ he would use (2) 12awg wires pulled through communication conduit to make the solar CT connection at the house. We will keep you posted.
Thanks so much for all your input!

You are welcome!

Can I pass on a small heads up on extending the CT wires? Most current measuring setups (CTs) have to be pretty close to their measuring device, as in inches to feet. I was told by a Tesla technician that the upper limit on a neurio CT is 50', though I don't know about a Gateway. In general, the electrical signal in a CT is small, and easily swamped by outside noise. The issue that I would worry about for a long CT run is that any sort of lightning strike in the area would dump more energy into the CT measurement circuit than it was ever designed for. If your installer does want to try a long CT, he would need to find 12ga, high twist wire, preferably shielded, armored, and rated for burial... I think that you would be better off with a custom digital solution that measured the current/voltage at the CT, and then sent a digital signal back to the house to a digitally controlled signal generator that would output the measured CT values on wires there. But, I'm not a trained electrical engineer, and I don't play one on TV either...

All the best,

BG

 

[Cacahuete]

We recently installed a 500' fiber run. The PW's and GW are on a pedestal mounted MSP; Enphase Combiner Cabinet is at the home. There is a dense forest of trees and brush between the MSP and home (no high-freq. RF, not even a flashlight beam, will pass through).

We used RS-485 fiber/copper converters for the solar/Neurio connection and Ethernet fiber/copper converters, to connect to the home network. Works perfectly.

 

[Cacahuete]

Thank you BG. That really lays out some options for us and gives us a realistic picture of how these solutions are very high tech and complex, but doable. Yes we live in the redwoods and the 800 feet distance is through large trees, so line of sight is not an option for us. In the meantime our Powerwalls are now working fine again, so for the interim we may hang tight and hope for some new simple cloud solution between the SunPower-Superviser and the Tesla gateway. Easy to forget that this is all such new technology and as more and more people install solar+batteries, there will be more edge cases like ours that get solved. Just now our installer let us know that he can do what looks like a simple low-tech solution which will work. The solar CT requires two wires, typically he uses 16awg wire when it’s all fairly close. With the 800’ he would use (2) 12awg wires pulled through communication conduit to make the solar CT connection at the house. We will keep you posted.
Thanks so much for all your input!