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confused about requirements for wall plug, some clarification please?

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My understanding so far for a reasonably robust wall plug for charging would be the following:

60 amp double-pole breaker --> (Minimum) 6 AWG copper (probably 4 better?) --> NEMA 14-50 wall socket. Its a short run in the garage (maybe 3 ft?) so can just go through the wall right to the next stud over.

My question is: Isn't the 14-50 rated at 50 amps? Wouldn't I want one that is rated at 60 amps like the other components, so that the car can charge at full 48A? Also thinking in the future to be able to plug in a wall charger.

Am I overthinking it, or should I use a 14-60 instead? Or is the 14-50 OK at close to rated continuous?

TIA!
 
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Will you be using the included mobile charger? If so, you can only charge at 32A (unless you have one of the older 40A capable ones) so decide if you want to save money by using the UMC, or run larger wire for future installation of a wall charger or anything that may come. If you want to install a wall charger, you can hardwire the wall charger and run it at 40A with a 50a breaker and 48A with a 60A breaker.

The wire gauge completely depends on the max amperage (breaker size) and wire type used. There are plenty of tables available. Just one of them is here: Wire Size Chart. The wire type used is very important as it can bump you up or down a gauge depending on type.
 
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Thanks @jmadder - I haven't actually purchased my (used) Telsa yet, so still kind of in the research phase of learning the ins and outs. Probably i would use the included charger at first, then install a wall charger that I can plug in at a later point. I was just thinking how I can future-proof that as much as possible so as to only do it once. So really the question was about the 14-50 wall socket and whether that is sufficient for the future plugging in of a wall charger on a 60A circuit? Thanks!
 
My understanding so far for a reasonably robust wall plug for charging would be the following:

60 amp double-pole breaker --> (Minimum) 6 AWG copper (probably 4 better?) --> NEMA 14-50 wall socket. Its a short run in the garage (maybe 3 ft?) so can just go through the wall right to the next stud over.

My question is: Isn't the 14-50 rated at 50 amps? Wouldn't I want one that is rated at 60 amps like the other components, so that the car can charge at full 48A? Also thinking in the future to be able to plug in a wall charger.

Am I overthinking it, or should I use a 14-60 instead? Or is the 14-50 OK at close to rated continuous?

TIA!
Having the NEMA 14-50 with a 60A breaker would violate code. If you want to future proof against a possible change to a Wall Connector, then what you should do is size the wires to support the 60A circuit but initially install a 50A breaker to properly protect the 14-50. Then if/when you change out the 14-50 for the HPWC, at that time you can upgrade the circuit breaker to 60A if you want the full 48A charging rate.
 
In addition to earlier comments, 6 AWG NMB is only allowed to carry 55 amps(but that's really 44 because its an continuous load (EV)), so 60 amps would be disallowed. If that 3' of wire is individual conductors in conduit then you are fine with 6 AWG for 65 amps or better.

I'd probably plan to use 4 AWG in any case. Notably not any bigger, because 14-50 outlets frequently won't accept more than #4 conductors.
 
I think it's better (and cheaper in the long run) to over engineer now, rather than 6 months later wish you had. With a 50 amp breaker you can set a generation 2 or 3 wall charger to 40 amps if you install one down the road. A 60 amp breaker will let you use the full 48 amps. I doubt the charging time will vary much from 40 to 48 amps if you charge overnight. if you use a 60 amp breaker you are required to use a 60 amp outlet, not 50 amp.
 
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I think it's better (and cheaper in the long run) to over engineer now, rather than 6 months later wish you had. With a 50 amp breaker you can set a generation 2 or 3 wall charger to 40 amps if you install one down the road. A 60 amp breaker will let you use the full 48 amps. I doubt the charging time will vary much from 40 to 48 amps if you charge overnight. if you use a 60 amp breaker you are required to use a 60 amp outlet, not 50 amp.

Right - which was the question :). What 60 amp outlet would i buy? Maybe I got terminology wrong, but my thinking was this:

Now: 60A breaker --> 4 AWG --> ?wall outlet? (this is where i need help selecting)

Future: Plug wall charger in to existing above outlet, and enjoy 48A charging.

I knew a NEMA 14-50 outlet would not be legal with 60A breaker, so I just want to know what to put there if I go with that.

Thanks for everyone's patience!
 
Right - which was the question :). What 60 amp outlet would i buy? Maybe I got terminology wrong, but my thinking was this:

Now: 60A breaker --> 4 AWG --> ?wall outlet? (this is where i need help selecting)

Future: Plug wall charger in to existing above outlet, and enjoy 48A charging.

I knew a NEMA 14-50 outlet would not be legal with 60A breaker, so I just want to know what to put there if I go with that.

Thanks for everyone's patience!
There's apparently a thing called a 14-60 outlet (Who knew!) and evseadapters sells a UMC adapter for it!

But the bad news is that you need a GFCI breaker, and that'll run at least $100, sometimes more like $150, and those prices are for 50 amp since I think you are the first person to ask about 60 amp outlets.

For your purposes, if you REALLY want to go down the outlet-first method, I'd probably use a 40 amp GFCI, 4AWG, and a quality 14-50 outlet. Note that you are STILL going to be out about $280 by going this route if you decide to later switch to a 60 amp HPWC, since the HPWC doesn't want or need a GFCI, and obviously won't need the 14-50 outlet or the $80 UMC adapter. There might be some resale value on Ebay, but nothing like new prices.

The 60 amp two-pole outlet for a HPWC is like $20 tops.

Keep in mind, a brand new Gen3 HPWC is only $350 after federal tax credit, and you may have local incentives as well.
 
OOOHHHH I think I got it now.

OK i'll just go with the 14-50 for now, and be happy with 32A charging, which seems like more than enough given i drive maybe 1-3 times a week (i work from home).

Once I feel like this will be a long term thing, it should not be hard to swap out breakers and hardwire the wall charger. Doesn't sound like I am really saving any time or money by pursuing my intended path.

Thanks!!

adam
 
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OOOHHHH I think I got it now.

OK i'll just go with the 14-50 for now, and be happy with 32A charging, which seems like more than enough given i drive maybe 1-3 times a week (i work from home).
Right. Here's what your first set up should look like: 50 A breaker --> 4 AWG --> NEMA 14-50 --> Tesla 14-50 Adapter --> Tesla Mobile Connector --> Car. Depending on the model of car you have and the age/version of the mobile connector you're using, this set up will allow you to charge at 240V and either 32A or 40A.

Then if/when you decide you want to upgrade to the hardwired set-up, you can swap the breakers and install the HPWC and it will look like this: 60 A breaker --> 4 AWG --> Tesla Wall Connector --> Car. Depending on the model of car you have, this will allow you to charge at 240V and either 32A or up to 48A.
 
If your going to hardwiring the WC after being used on a NEMA 14-50 outlet, I’m assuming you would need to “SPLICE” in some new wire to bridge the gap. So does that “SPLICE” introduce an element of RISK vs a single continuous run of wire from the BREAKER to the connection point inside the WC?

That was the decision I had to face after I sold my CC with a NEMA 14-50 plug and replaced it with a Tesla WC. Hardwire with a splice or use the “infamous” PIGTAIL solution. I haven’t seen a lot of discussion on that “connection point” and any issues that could cause and or what the difference is? Should that be allowed/used?
 
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If your going to hardwiring the WC after being used on a NEMA 14-50 outlet, I’m assuming you would need to “SPLICE” in some new wire to bridge the gap. So does that “SPLICE” introduce an element of RISK vs a single continuous run of wire from the BREAKER to the connection point inside the WC?

That was the decision I had to face after I sold my CC with a NEMA 14-50 plug and replaced it with a Tesla WC. Hardwire with a splice or use the “infamous” PIGTAIL solution. I haven’t seen a lot of discussion on that “connection point” and any issues that could cause and or what the difference is? Should that be allowed/used?
Nothing wrong with splicing in another 8-12"(or more, of course) of wire, as long as it is done correctly. Some polaris or kearny connectors are fine for connecting 6 gauge or even larger wiring. Note that whatever splice is done has to be implemented in an electrical box which remains accessible without opening a wall up, but given you are removing a 14-50 there's already an outlet box there with plenty of wire to connect to. I don't think there's enough space in the Gen3 baseplate to accommodate these connections, but maybe there's also a butt-splice I haven't heard about yet that would work.

Also, depending on the entry point and length of slack that the 14-50 installer left behind, you might be able to reach the connection lugs on a Gen3. It certainly wouldn't be following the circuitous route suggested by the install manual, but I don't think that's all THAT important.
 
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I could also just make the wire to the 14-50 outlet a bit longer and leave it stuffed in the wall, to be pulled out to its full length at a later time if I remove the outlet and hardwire the WC. The outlet will be probably less than a foot from the panel. (Lucky me)

any more though, I am leaning toward buying the sort of WC that will plug into the outlet to avoid the hardwiring and make it model-agnostic.
 
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