Confused on Model S vs 3 Discussions

[Zeromus-X]

For me, the size of the Model S was a negative; I've always owned smaller cars (Saturn Sky, Nissan Juke, etc) and the Model S was a beast. Even now after a year and a half I get a little nervous speeding (er... driving) through toll booths, wondering if today's the day I lose a bet.

I didn't think I needed the storage capacity but now that I own one I'm glad I did. The hatch holds an unreal amount of stuff. I can move a full acoustic drum kit no problem. Full-length rack equipment. Furniture. You name it. It's like a pickup truck back there.

Maybe I should lift it and re-do the interior with bed liner.

 

[dhanson865]

Okay, my Model S is scheduled for delivery in two weeks and I am also an early Model 3 reservation holder. I'm confused that most of the Model S vs 3 discussions revolve around price and tech. This seems to drive discussions towards "why buy an S for $30k more" where I see them as two cars targeting different buyers.

I haven't seen the Model 3 in person, but from the spec sheets, the Model S is bigger and holds more cargo. Therefore, they are inherently different cars. The reason I switched is I have a family of four, we go on road trips and a larger vehicle is more suited for that. The Model 3 is the same size as my M3 and the M3 is a tad too small for us.

From my perspective, for those of us who want more storage, options and a large, comfortable ride, the Model S delivers. Am I missing something as to why the constant comparing of two cars based on price and tech alone? It's kind of the same as comparing a BMW M5 and M3, both awesome cars but targeting totally different buyers.

Well irishpilot I guess Troy will put you on ignore too. Model S is larger than Model 3 and that is an objective fact that he disagreed with in post #6.

Yes there is more head room in the Model 3 than the Model S but the S is longer than the 3 and wider than the 3 and in area and volume it is larger. But apparently logic and facts aren't welcome here.

In a recap of real data

Model S 196" long
Model 3 184.8" long

Model S width 86.2"
Model 3 width Width: 82.2” (76.1” with mirrors folded)

In 3 dimensional objects it's the total volume that matters not one dimension.

 

[Brian-MS90D]

Well there you have it folks. @Troy has proven the silliness of the Model S. None one should buy a MS unless they desire cargo space or enjoy burning money. Someone better warn Elon that MS sales will soon plummet because @Troy has figured out the game!

 

[S4WRXTTCS]

Okay, my Model S is scheduled for delivery in two weeks and I am also an early Model 3 reservation holder. I'm confused that most of the Model S vs 3 discussions revolve around price and tech. This seems to drive discussions towards "why buy an S for $30k more" where I see them as two cars targeting different buyers.

I haven't seen the Model 3 in person, but from the spec sheets, the Model S is bigger and holds more cargo. Therefore, they are inherently different cars. The reason I switched is I have a family of four, we go on road trips and a larger vehicle is more suited for that. The Model 3 is the same size as my M3 and the M3 is a tad too small for us.

From my perspective, for those of us who want more storage, options and a large, comfortable ride, the Model S delivers. Am I missing something as to why the constant comparing of two cars based on price and tech alone? It's kind of the same as comparing a BMW M5 and M3, both awesome cars but targeting totally different buyers.

There are a few reasons for this.

A lot of people in these discussions including myself bought the Model S even though it wasn't the perfect fit., We did so because it was the only long range electric car available. It's not like I really needed a car the size of a spaceship. Sure the size is nice, but I don't want to hurt the interior of my spaceship either. I had a bad experience of slightly scratching the back of the drivers seat because a sit/stand desk wouldn't fit in my Jeep, but fit into the Tesla. Since then I've always carried lots of towels to protect the interior in case I buy some large thing. I also got the xpel ultimate on the top of the rear bumper area to protect it when moving things in/out of the rear.

The second reason is Tesla hasn't differentiated the Model S yet. The size differentiation can't possibly justify the difference of $30K or more. There has to be a larger differentiation like in range, luxury, power, etc. I say this as an owner of 2015 Model S 70D who is worried that the resale value will significantly drop when the Model 3 becomes readily available. My plan all along has been to switch to the Model 3 high performance all-wheel drive version when it gets released.

Lastly the Model 3 is the latest and greatest. Here is a fresh new car that incorporates everything Tesla has learned over the years. One has to be completely naïve to think it's not better than the Model S in some ways. This is partly why we've seen the anti-sale from Tesla. They'd much rather sell a car they have now (with larger margins) than a presale for a car they won't be able to deliver for years due to the backlog.

I strongly believe (without any evidence) that Tesla will refresh the Model S in the next 3-6 months with a much nicer interior, fit/trim, etc. I also expect it to match the range of the long range Model 3. It's a little silly for the more expensive car to have less range than it's little sibling.

If they don't then for me it's an easy decision to keep my Model S until I can buy the Model 3 I want.

If they do upgrade the Model S it will make it difficult for me to resist the new Model S. Especially if it has some tech upgrades. Like automatically dimming windows, quieter interior, heads up display, etc. I did get used to the size, and it is nice on an occasion. Having more differentiation also prevents stupid omissions like the Model 3 not having a heated steering wheel.

If there one thing I know about Tesla is they make decisions hard. Deciding on the Model S configuration, and time of purchase was the most painful buying decision I've ever gone through.

 

[Destiny1701]

Its a little silly for the more expensive car to have less range than it's little sibling.

Hmmm...with conventional ICE cars, seems like the more luxurious and expensive the model/trim, the less mileage considerations.

Exhibit A:
328i to M5
C300 to E63
A4 to S5/S7
Lex is250 to LS460
Etc etc
Even non luxury cars...
Corolla to Avalon
Civic to Accord
Chevy Cruze to Cadillac
Ford Fusion to Lincoln

I'm not even going to exotics lol. (10-15mpg anyone?)

Not sure it's that silly actually as luxury buyers often consider other factors instead of just range and mileage. I've found Performance, power, handling, comfort and luxuries are usually held in higher regard.

Perhaps EV's are looked at differently but once we are getting above 300miles range as the standard, it seems like priorities would start to shift to finishes/luxuries again in dictating market pricing and supply/demand.

 

[S4WRXTTCS]

Hmmm...with conventional ICE cars, seems like the more luxurious and expensive the model/trim, the less mileage considerations.

Exhibit A:
328i to M5
C300 to E63
A4 to S5/S7
Lex is250 to LS460
Etc etc
Even non luxury cars...
Corolla to Avalon
Civic to Accord
Chevy Cruze to Cadillac
Ford Fusion to Lincoln

I'm not even going to exotics lol. (10-15mpg anyone?)

Not sure it's that silly actually as luxury buyers often consider other factors instead of just range and mileage. I've found Performance, power, handling, comfort and luxuries are usually held in higher regard.

Perhaps EV's are looked at differently but once we are getting above 300miles range as the standard, it seems like priorities would start to shift to finishes/luxuries again in dictating market pricing and supply/demand.

Yeah, it's completely different for EV's since range is something you pay for. Having less range is justifiable for an SUV/crossover like the X, but not the S versus the 3.

I'm sure there is a point where it no longer holds true, and 300 miles is likely pretty close to this.

For me I agree that 300 miles is really where it's at. After 300 miles of range it's the looks/tech/power/etc. The >300 miles of the Model 3 LR is pretty seductive.

Both the Bolt, and the Model 3 have really upended the entire EV market due to having more than 300 miles of range. I would be extremely surprised if the low end Model S doesn't match that fairly soon.

 

[Troy]

Check out this Model 3 video from two days ago. At 4:45 the person reviewing the car says the rear seats are more spacious than a Mercedes C Class or BMW 3 Series.

 

[Carl]

There are a few reasons for this.

A lot of people in these discussions including myself bought the Model S even though it wasn't the perfect fit., We did so because it was the only long range electric car available. It's not like I really needed a car the size of a spaceship. Sure the size is nice, but I don't want to hurt the interior of my spaceship either. I had a bad experience of slightly scratching the back of the drivers seat because a sit/stand desk wouldn't fit in my Jeep, but fit into the Tesla. Since then I've always carried lots of towels to protect the interior in case I buy some large thing. I also got the xpel ultimate on the top of the rear bumper area to protect it when moving things in/out of the rear.

The second reason is Tesla hasn't differentiated the Model S yet. The size differentiation can't possibly justify the difference of $30K or more. There has to be a larger differentiation like in range, luxury, power, etc. I say this as an owner of 2015 Model S 70D who is worried that the resale value will significantly drop when the Model 3 becomes readily available. My plan all along has been to switch to the Model 3 high performance all-wheel drive version when it gets released.

Lastly the Model 3 is the latest and greatest. Here is a fresh new car that incorporates everything Tesla has learned over the years. One has to be completely naïve to think it's not better than the Model S in some ways. This is partly why we've seen the anti-sale from Tesla. They'd much rather sell a car they have now (with larger margins) than a presale for a car they won't be able to deliver for years due to the backlog.

I strongly believe (without any evidence) that Tesla will refresh the Model S in the next 3-6 months with a much nicer interior, fit/trim, etc. I also expect it to match the range of the long range Model 3. It's a little silly for the more expensive car to have less range than it's little sibling.

If they don't then for me it's an easy decision to keep my Model S until I can buy the Model 3 I want.

If they do upgrade the Model S it will make it difficult for me to resist the new Model S. Especially if it has some tech upgrades. Like automatically dimming windows, quieter interior, heads up display, etc. I did get used to the size, and it is nice on an occasion. Having more differentiation also prevents stupid omissions like the Model 3 not having a heated steering wheel.

If there one thing I know about Tesla is they make decisions hard. Deciding on the Model S configuration, and time of purchase was the most painful buying decision I've ever gone through.

^ This. Agree with each and every paragraph.

The only thing I could add is that in Europe, with its medieval town centers and underground parking lots made for "European-sized" vehicles, a lot of people would actually prefer an M3-sized car. We in Europe are not used to the width/length of MS/MX. As an example, the Lexus RX is considered the 'large' (and not mid-size) Lexus SUV in Europe - the Lexus LX is not even sold over here!

 

[idleuser]

Well there you have it folks. @Troy has proven the silliness of the Model S. None one should buy a MS unless they desire cargo space or enjoy burning money. Someone better warn Elon that MS sales will soon plummet because @Troy has figured out the game!

Numbers have been down 16-17% compared to last quarter. The model 3 is taking sales away from the model s is real. Wbg do you think Tesla is adding features and decreasing the over all cost? Do you think Tesla is doing this just for fun?

 

[Brian-MS90D]

Numbers have been down 16-17% compared to last quarter. The model 3 is taking sales away from the model s is real. Wbg do you think Tesla is adding features and decreasing the over all cost? Do you think Tesla is doing this just for fun?

Correlation does not equal causation. There are many other/additional possible causes.

 

[ItsNotAboutTheMoney]

Yes.

People have different priorities; some people are egoistic enough that they don't consider that other people have different priorities; some people are egotistical enough that they post to express their view on what's important and dismiss others' views.

 

[Dax279]

Check out this Model 3 video from two days ago. At 4:45 the person reviewing the car says the rear seats are more spacious than a Mercedes C Class or BMW 3 Series.

I watched that video as well and recall him saying that, but what really caught my attention while he was saying that was that it did look pretty tight when he sitting back there.

 

[Ken7]

Regardless of range, let's be honest, the S is an obviously more upscale vehicle than the 3. For those that value that, it's certainly a selling point. For me, spending a couple of minutes more at a SC is not that big a deal.

 

[M.V.P.]

IMO, the market segment for each vehicle can be summed up as such:

• Model 3 - Aimed at younger buyers who value affordability, design simplicity, people moving capacity & range in a compact outside package.
• Model S - Older, more affluent buyers who like a larger sport touring sedan with ample cargo space as a bonus.
• Model X - Affluent buyers who like the higher SUV seating position & ground clearance with great people & cargo carrying versatility.

One vehicle is not "better" than the other but rather exists to target individual but overlapping market segments.

 

[scottm]

Okay, my Model S is scheduled for delivery in two weeks and I am also an early Model 3 reservation holder. I'm confused that most of the Model S vs 3 discussions revolve around price and tech. This seems to drive discussions towards "why buy an S for $30k more" where I see them as two cars targeting different buyers.

I haven't seen the Model 3 in person, but from the spec sheets, the Model S is bigger and holds more cargo. Therefore, they are inherently different cars. The reason I switched is I have a family of four, we go on road trips and a larger vehicle is more suited for that. The Model 3 is the same size as my M3 and the M3 is a tad too small for us.

From my perspective, for those of us who want more storage, options and a large, comfortable ride, the Model S delivers. Am I missing something as to why the constant comparing of two cars based on price and tech alone? It's kind of the same as comparing a BMW M5 and M3, both awesome cars but targeting totally different buyers.

You're not confused at all!

You're getting an S, congratulations! And have a reservation for 3...
Exact same situation as me, will have one of each (if I follow through with the 3).

Same reason for the S, I wanted a bigger car. Take your family out in the S in more comfort, take more stuff. The 3 will make a great second car, for solo flights and grocery getting... Take the S if you need a hatch to open wide and haul a dresser.

You're driving a BEV and that's what matters most. Living on an island that doesn't produce gasoline is the perfect use case for a BEV. All the "tech talk" is just that.. besides it changes all the time. "More car less money" is subjective, and matters less if you can afford either, or both.

One thing for sure, living in Honolulu, you don't need to worry about battery size or range at all for any Tesla ever made. Or any electric car sold today will satisfy your range needs. "I have a bigger gas tank" (range) matters zero .. if you know you can fill up before it's empty. Same goes for battery size... but is even more convenient because you can fill anywhere and fully in your home every night...

You don't need to wait for model 3 "D" version... I couldn't imagine any need for it where you live. Jump on a model 3 with RWD and put that $5K to better use.

You obviously bought for reasons other than range. "Tesla" is a good reason - they're all great cars!

 

[CraigW]

I keep seeing people concentrating on the speed of charge at a supercharger. Technically, this is correct, but in practice people aren't going to notice a lot of difference. One, it all depends on how empty your battery is when you start charging. I see the charge amps going below 60 at a bit over half full. Second, unless you are reading a book, you generally don't stay with your car all during charging. I have many, many, many stops at superchargers and I can tell you I don't generally wait around in the car and often am a bit late in getting back. What I do on trips these days is set the battery to MAX charge and target coming back at mileage to the next supercharger + 50 RM. Then if I miss a bit I don't have the possibility of getting charged a 'waiting' fee.

Where they will see a difference - with the different Model 3 battery sizes - will be at home on a NEMA 14-50 outlet. The smaller batter will charge at ~32 amps, while the larger battery will charge at 40 amps. However, you will be asleep while this happens, so does it matter? Only during the day and out of supercharger range - still KOAs have varying capabilities to deliver a steady 40 amps power anyway.

Car size is the main reason my wife wants a Model 3. She just feels more comfortable driving a car that takes up less space.

 

[scottm]

Supercharger journey experiences don't really apply to this thread... Honolulu.

I see the charge kWh going below 60

Good to know tho.

Personally, to avoid getting hit with waiting fee I'd set the target to 90% when you get the "nearly done" or "finished" warning on the App... it's still an early warning shot. Decide if you need to buy more time to get back to your car bump the target to 100%. It takes forever to get to 100 and you're not sitting idle in the stall so no fee... saunter back to your car.

 

[AmpedRealtor]

From my perspective, for those of us who want more storage, options and a large, comfortable ride, the Model S delivers. Am I missing something as to why the constant comparing of two cars based on price and tech alone? It's kind of the same as comparing a BMW M5 and M3, both awesome cars but targeting totally different buyers.

I think a lot of people feel that the Model S/X premium reflects a poor value. The Model 3 has a newer and nicer interior, is a better engineered vehicle with a newer design, and will (hopefully) be manufactured to stricter tolerances. The only advantages to S/X that I can see are interior storage and space, and speed. Is that worth double the price? For many the answer to that question is no.

 

[CaptainBob]

I've read many of your posts over the past months and in all of them you seem to be somewhat opposed to the model S and find every which way to discredit it vs the M3. Curious as to why? It's a beautiful machine. Do you own an MS and have experienced the sheer joy of the drive, the awesome auto suspension, the power, the handling and acceleration, the beauty of its aesthetics, the amount of cargo space, the all aluminum build...etc etc You've compared the M3 to the MS in numerous lists, highlighting features, inches, and with a clear biased opinion towards the 3 vs the S. Yes agreed the 3 will be a better bang for the buck/value but for the immediate short to mid term, it will in no way resemble, handle, accelerate or provide the same luxuries (power trunk, suspension, dual screens) as the MS does. And by the time Tesla starts incorporating more features into the M3, MS will be undergoing additional re designs and eventually a complete model refresh by 2019.

I also don't believe comparing the fastest 4 door sedan on the planet P100D (on par with Ferrari, Porsche, GTR, corvette, mclaren etc) with an as yet unannounced and unsubstantiated P80D is correct. Tesla would not make its top end M3 surpass or equal its top end MS. Case in point, recently the 75D was updated to 4.3sec acceleration to allow for power differentiation between it and the M3 (5.8/5.2sec). The 100D may also see a power boost shortly to differentiate from the M380D.

Price point, the 75D has reduced recently while incorporating more options. I imagine it may again shortly to continue to offer its customers better perceived value in order to convert more M3 Purchasers.

Purchasing one Tesla model over another is not always about headroom in inches. There is style, comfort, luxury, prestige of ownership, cargo, warranty, unlim supercharging, handling, power etc. Some would even avoid an M3 much as a 5 series driver would avoid the mass market 3 series. Same leather, same engine, same screen, same BMW style yet there are those who gladly pay more for different class of car and not driving one of the mass market models. (Side note here that the MS hands down is a sheer beauty to look at, the M3 is ok but not jaw dropping in its curves).

Those who have purchased an M3, excellent! I've one on order as well. We will be driving an amazing vehicle. Value? You bet. Same level of Luxury or performance as an S? No. But for the price point, one cannot expect as much.

Those who have purchased an MS (love ours) or MX in any form, well done and thanks for supporting even further r&d into MS, MX, MY and upcoming Roadster I'm sure I'd have many MS owners in agreement here.

I own a Model S and am in line for a Model 3. Couldn't agree more.

 

[MyNameHas3Ltrs]

Okay, my Model S is scheduled for delivery in two weeks and I am also an early Model 3 reservation holder. I'm confused that most of the Model S vs 3 discussions revolve around price and tech. This seems to drive discussions towards "why buy an S for $30k more" where I see them as two cars targeting different buyers.

I haven't seen the Model 3 in person, but from the spec sheets, the Model S is bigger and holds more cargo. Therefore, they are inherently different cars. The reason I switched is I have a family of four, we go on road trips and a larger vehicle is more suited for that. The Model 3 is the same size as my M3 and the M3 is a tad too small for us.

From my perspective, for those of us who want more storage, options and a large, comfortable ride, the Model S delivers. Am I missing something as to why the constant comparing of two cars based on price and tech alone? It's kind of the same as comparing a BMW M5 and M3, both awesome cars but targeting totally different buyers.

You aren't missing one iota. They are very different cars. For those that want Autopilot and prospective Self-Driving, but don't want to shell out six-figures Model 3 is a great, new option. Therein in lies all the excitement, hype and basis for comparisons

Used Model S while becoming affordable to buy, doesn't mean insurance is reasonable. $749/six months! State Farm bases this on historic, lengthy and expensive repair process. Model 3 without history, insurance has to be based on the cost of the vehicle.

Tesla has their work cut out for themselves in improving repair infrastructure! If these 455,000 pre-orders all of a sudden wind up with skyrocketing insurance costs. Model 3's could become "hot potatos"!