-
Want to remove ads? Register an account and login to see fewer ads, and become a Supporting Member to remove almost all ads.
Congress Might Rescind EV Tax Credit
- Thread starter Curt Renz
- Start date
-
- Tags
- Energy Environment Policy
TheTalkingMule
Distributed Energy Enthusiast
Since we're completely off topic.....
Nonsense. You could easily be doing parking canopy solar installations all over PR without taking up any space. On-site or grid battery storage turns that to 24/7/365 power that's far cheaper when you add in the LNG logistics and expense.
It's not a gas vs. renewables thing. It's just such an obvious subsidy to the gas industry when they should be doing all of the above.
There is not enough power in PR right now. There is no energy to store at night if it's all being used during the day. It takes a week to ship a LM2500 from the mainland and kick up 25Mw of power 24/7. It takes months to build a solar array of the same capacity and get it online. Disaster recovery is completely different than infrastructure improvements.
SageBrush
REJECT Fascism
I thought about that too, but the flip side is that the 25 MW is constrained by damage to the grid whereas the 25 MW of PV can be distributed.
That all depends on how much of the 2GW deficiency is related to downed lines or power stations. In the above example there its distribution there but the plant itself wasn't safe to operate which is why they're bringing in the turbines. It also doesn't address the timeline issue of bringing in temporary power now vs building out an entire network later. If you were living in PR right now would you just be like oh it's cool, I'll go another few months without power to make sure it's renewable.
Even the hospital set up Tesla put in takes up like half the facility. it just doesn't work in a disaster recovery mode.
Even the hospital set up Tesla put in takes up like half the facility. it just doesn't work in a disaster recovery mode.
TheTalkingMule
Distributed Energy Enthusiast
I would argue the Army Corp of Engineers could build out 50MW of solar canopies over 25 parking lots with relative ease. As you say, this is disaster recovery with the funds and manpower to handle such tasks in a matter of days.
50MW takes up about 125 acres. building the last solar farm in the area at 45MW took over a year, no one is going to wait that long for something that can be done in a weeks time. Getting power moving now is all the matters, once you have a functioning grid you look at what can be done to improve it. If there's no power people aren't going to stay on the island. PR was already having an exodus before this hurricane telling them to wait years for green power isn't going to fly.
TheTalkingMule
Distributed Energy Enthusiast
Tesla got that small hospital up and running faster than the 50MW of gas gens got installed, and they still don't have a grid to distribute or the LNG to fire it. I'm all for rebuilding the grid in emergency mode and bringing in some gens to juice it. My question is....why are we only building out LNG infrastructure and support?
It's been proven that you can lay out solar over the footprint of a hospital parking lot and install Powerpacks to supply 24/7 electricity for a small hospital. That type of project can obviously be scaled to any size we like(so long as the parking lot is of scale too) and it's far more cost effective than LNG in the long run, so why aren't we doing that as well? You don't even need one scrap of land since all the solar can be canopy mounted.
How long to build out a canopy on a massive hospital parking lot? I'd say 3 days for the Army Corp of Engineers. How long to mount the solar? I'd say 2 days with Tesla/FEMA/Corp cooperation and sufficient labor. How long to interconnect to the building? Another 2-3 days to tie in and test. In full on emergency(no red tape) mode, that's about a week.
Edit: Plus you now have the added benefit of not having to power a hospital on the grid making the gas gen job easier.
It's been proven that you can lay out solar over the footprint of a hospital parking lot and install Powerpacks to supply 24/7 electricity for a small hospital. That type of project can obviously be scaled to any size we like(so long as the parking lot is of scale too) and it's far more cost effective than LNG in the long run, so why aren't we doing that as well? You don't even need one scrap of land since all the solar can be canopy mounted.
How long to build out a canopy on a massive hospital parking lot? I'd say 3 days for the Army Corp of Engineers. How long to mount the solar? I'd say 2 days with Tesla/FEMA/Corp cooperation and sufficient labor. How long to interconnect to the building? Another 2-3 days to tie in and test. In full on emergency(no red tape) mode, that's about a week.
Edit: Plus you now have the added benefit of not having to power a hospital on the grid making the gas gen job easier.
voyager
Active Member
Many supposed industry 'leaders' acted in the same childish fashion.
They act like rich spoiled kids who want to impress their friends. But when Pop breaks out the wallet, you best bet they are in line early.
There is something about money that erodes common sense in many humans.
Let's say you are against closing more desert land to recreational use. You are invited to become an adviser to Congress who wants to close more deserts. Do you decline because your friends call you names? Or because you've heard Congress members often shoot minority children then eat them, or similar nonsensical rumors?
No. The rumors have nothing to do with deserts, your true friends will still be friends, and being given a microphone in a noisy room helps.
Look, we get it. Nobody wants to lose their cheap gardeners and household staff. But that has nothing to do with political decisions about US industry.
I don't think you were fully awake when you wrote this. It's very hard to follow.
Maybe you're saying that the leaders left because it was unpopular among their friends to be on the council. Unpopular among their customers, maybe. And if they've seen that their input has no effect on policy, why alienate customers just to sit at the table and nod?
Elon left because, despite his urging, the administration still bailed on the Paris agreement. I don't recall the exact clause of the Paris agreement that guaranteed cheap gardeners. Elon's worldview and Tesla's business model has to do with sustainable, carbon free transport. I'm quite certain he made a measured judgement on how this reflects on his own principles and those of Tesla's customers. There's a balance there.
I guess that could be called childish (?) but I think most people would call it principled.
There is nothing un-principled about isolating tasks.
EVs are not carbon-free, they are low carbon as of 2017. Migrating to EVs requires mostly getting EVs on the road. The Paris Accord is not the same issue, it does not force Congress to put EVs on the road. But the Anti-Trump-Movement is far, far more than PA/GHG emissions. It is all encompassing. From high heels to the body fat content of the Press Secretary are all equally important to the movement. The A-T-M doesn't have specific goals, as California is trying to prove to the nation.
Negotiation with the US government is one of many factors that puts EVs on the road.
Lowering GHG emissions in the USA is a side effect of putting EVs on the road. It doesn't actually make people buy them, or adoption rates would be far, far higher. Americans are generally pro-environment as long as it's free.
Maintaining incentives and improving US domestic policy concerning EVs is more effective.
Cliff Notes: Dancing with the Devil does not necessary sell your soul, just don't go up to his room for a 'nightcap' after the dance, or you will get #$@%@^'d. In fact, all executives must have dancing shoes to be effective leaders.
dhrivnak
Active Member
I hear the EV tax credit is in the Senate bill. So it will be interested to see who prevails the Senate the House?
This is so frustrating since many of us will have to commit to buying the car (non-refundable $3500 deposit) and not know if the $7500 federal credit will be available or not.
Some may be "down to the wire" where they commit and hope to get their car before December 31st, but can't predict exactly when it will be delivered.
Apparently, there are various possibilities:
#1: Senate doesn't pass their version of the bill, and just adopts the house version: $7500 gone.
#2: Senate passes their version, but then during reconciliation of house & senate bills decides to eliminate the credit: $7500 gone.
#3: Senate passes their version, and during reconciliation, house & senate agree to keep the credit: $7500 retained.
#3: Senate doesn't pass their bill, and decides not to accept the house version either: everything stays the same, $7500 retained.
Senate GOP tax bill preserves wind PTC, EV tax credits
New Tax Bill = will the $7500 tax credit go away? | Tesla
Some may be "down to the wire" where they commit and hope to get their car before December 31st, but can't predict exactly when it will be delivered.
Apparently, there are various possibilities:
#1: Senate doesn't pass their version of the bill, and just adopts the house version: $7500 gone.
#2: Senate passes their version, but then during reconciliation of house & senate bills decides to eliminate the credit: $7500 gone.
#3: Senate passes their version, and during reconciliation, house & senate agree to keep the credit: $7500 retained.
#3: Senate doesn't pass their bill, and decides not to accept the house version either: everything stays the same, $7500 retained.
Senate GOP tax bill preserves wind PTC, EV tax credits
New Tax Bill = will the $7500 tax credit go away? | Tesla
nwdiver
Well-Known Member
Ok... where's the carbon tax. The lack of a Carbon Tax IS a HUGE... HUUUUUUGE subsidy!
Similar threads
