Considering buying older Model S (pre face lift/first gen)

[MagnusAG99]

Hey Tesla folks!, my dad is really thinking about buying a used 2012-2015 Tesla Model S. So i am just wondering if anyone here got any experience with them? when it comes to maintnence and what to avoid when buying a used Model S. I see a few listings of like 2014 version`s where the owners have changed a motor and stuff. Is motor`s or batterypacks something we should expect to "fail"?. Right now we own 3 toyota hybrids, two thats gone like taxi`s and stuff. Where the batterypakcs was changed for free cause of the cars 10 yr hybrid warrenty. Is there any warranty`s that comes with Tesla`s except the "new car" warranty? They cost like 40k-50k dollars here used so its quite alot of money we would be spending hopefully for a car thats worth it. Wouldve been great if owners of Model S`s could share their experiences.

 

[Troy]

The battery pack replacement rate of older Model S cars is much higher than newer ones. Here are two numbers to demonstrate how things have changed over time:

1 Jul 2015, 9.2% of Teslas had a battery replacement
1 Jan 2018, 3.9% of Teslas had a battery replacement

See cell G106 here for more details. Also, check out the degradation chart on the charts tab. In addition, the Model S 85's range numbers were over-advertised. The Model S 75D actually has more range than the Model S 85 even though the advertised range numbers suggest otherwise. 75D's EPA highway dyno score is higher than S85. Therefore don't buy an S85 if you can buy a 75D around the same price or a little higher.

By the way, 21" wheels reduce range a lot more than you might think. Tesla used to have this information in their design studio.

 

[MagnusAG99]

The battery pack replacement rate of older Model S cars is much higher than newer ones. Here are two numbers to demonstrate how things have changed over time:

1 Jul 2015, 9.2% of Teslas had a battery replacement
1 Jan 2018, 3.9% of Teslas had a battery replacement

See cell G106 here for more details. Also, check out the degradation chart on the charts tab. In addition, the Model S 85's range numbers were over-advertised. The Model S 75D actually has more range than the Model S 85 even though the advertised range numbers suggest otherwise. 75D's EPA highway dyno score is higher than S85. Therefore don't buy an S85 if you can buy a 75D around the same price or a little higher.

By the way, 21" wheels reduce range a lot more than you might think. Tesla used to have this information in their design studio.

Ohh really? i never knew that... it was a 85 we thought about getting, since they r cheaper then every other tesla by some reason lol. But if the 75 is better then we should take a look into that.

And yea ive heard about the wheels thingy... sucks that they do that, since they r so good looking.

Would it maybe be smarter to go for a base Model 3? since it would be as expensive but all new with warranty?

 

[Troy]

it was a 85 we thought about getting, since they r cheaper then every other tesla by some reason lol. But if the 75 is better then we should take a look into that.

Just to be clear, I compared S85's range to S75D, not S75. The D cars are dual motor AWD versions and have 5% more range than their RWD version. S75D has 5% more range than S75.

Would it maybe be smarter to go for a base Model 3? since it would be as expensive but all new with warranty?

If you are considering waiting for the Model 3, check out the Model 3 Delivery Estimator. Also, check out the range table I created here.

 

[Nick B]

My experience with my 2014 has been pretty great. There have been a lot of early repairs and they would certainly have costed a few thousands in total but otherwise the car runs like new and I plan on keeping it for a long time. Sure, the newer models will be more reliable but they are also newer meaning that we don't exactly have a long service history. The newer models are also much more expensive.

Whatever you do, make sure you budget some money for long term costs and you should be fine. My P85+ initially had 415km of range and now I have about 400. The car has 114 000km so the battery degradation has been low.

 

[MagnusAG99]

Just to be clear, I compared S85's range to S75D, not S75. The D cars are dual motor AWD versions and have 5% more range than their RWD version. S75D has 5% more range than S75.

yea i understood that, even tho i still dont really understand how 2 motors in the 75D can increase the range? i see it got like 50km more range then S75 and the S85. But yea, it makes sense it reduces wear on the rear motor on the ones that got two? which might be a good thing?

If you are considering waiting for the Model 3, check out the Model 3 Delivery Estimator. Also, check out the range table I created here.

thanks for the list, it seems like the Model 3 wont be available before quite some more time in Norway. But the range is pretty good on all of the versions it seems like tho.

My experience with my 2014 has been pretty great. There have been a lot of early repairs and they would certainly have costed a few thousands in total but otherwise the car runs like new and I plan on keeping it for a long time. Sure, the newer models will be more reliable but they are also newer meaning that we don't exactly have a long service history. The newer models are also much more expensive.

Whatever you do, make sure you budget some money for long term costs and you should be fine. My P85+ initially had 415km of range and now I have about 400. The car has 114 000km so the battery degradation has been low.

Yea, thats of course some to consider, that degradation wasent that bad, so the best version of the model S would be around 2014 75D then? under like 100 000 km?

 

[Nick B]

Well the D version started mid to end of 2014 and the prices will be pretty much the same as a 2015. You have to differenciate pre autopilot (2012-2014) from autopilot and 4WD (2014-today).

 

[Nick B]

Also, in my mind, the kilometers aren't that important as wear and tear isnt as important on an EV then as an ICE. I would consider a more recent higher mileage car over an older lower mileage one. Just my 2 cents

 

[Bobasaurus]

My 2014 P85 has been awesome. I have put about 14000 miles on the car. It's fast, quiet, and efficient. We took it on 500 mile long trip to a Port Canaveral. Supercharging was free and quick in most places. Mid-day in FLA after running 75 MPH for an hour and half the charging seemed a little slow but not enough to worry about.

I bought one with the 4 year/50K mile used car warranty from Tesla. One door handle failure cover under warranty so far has been the only issue.

I moved from a 2007 Prius so the Model S basically seems like a space ship to me

 

[Lasttoy]

I have 110k miles, love it. One door gear changed. One wheel alignment. New tires. Do about a thousand a week.

 

[dgpcolorado]

Older RWD cars, say 2014 and earlier, which haven't had a drive unit replaced with the latest version, might need a DU replacement due to noise. If the car has had a Q rebuilt DU installed my sense is that it isn't likely to need replacing again. The battery/drive train warranty is for eight years, so a DU replacement has no cost (and you get a free alignment out of it). I'm assuming that the warranty would be the same in Norway, but don't know for sure.

I bought my CPO (used, "Certified Pre-Owned") S60 directly from Tesla for the overall warranty (50,000 miles or four years, again: not sure what the Norway equivalent would be). While I've been glad to have it, if one can save enough money buying a used Tesla without a warranty, the money saved can go a long way toward paying for repairs.

My repairs in 2 years and 61,000 km:

• 1 door handle (CPO warranty)
• 1 drive unit (drive train warranty)
• right front knuckle joint (suspension) replacement (CPO warranty)
• media control unit (MCU, main computer screen) replacement (CPO warranty); got a newer version that is LTE versus the 3G older one

I don't know if my experience is typical or not. If I had bought the car for US$10,000 less without the CPO warranty it would have cost me less overall despite the repairs. The really expensive one is the drive unit replacement and that is covered under the eight year drive train warranty.

 

[Troy]

yea i understood that, even tho i still dont really understand how 2 motors in the 75D can increase the range?

The motor works at peak efficiency at a certain rpm. Ideally, you want the motor to reach peak efficiency when you need the range the most. That means at highway speeds. RWD Teslas are designed to reach peak efficiency at highway speeds. At lower speeds, they are not at peak efficiency. Dual motor cars solve this by having one motor reach peak efficiency at low speeds and the other at high speeds. Depending on your speed, the car uses one motor or the other more. The two motors have different axle ratios. The car switches between the motors instead of switching gears. There are no gears but having two motors works like having two gears instead of one. Here is a quote from Model S 75D's EPA document. See page 2 here.

Axle Ratio Front Motor 9.34 Rear Motor 9.73

 

[MagnusAG99]

Thanks for all the input guys, makes more sense now the two motor thing to Tony, thanks.

in Norway i know the older teslas (under 2017) got free supercharger the whole cars lifetime. New ones dont.. its like a 400 dollars a year subscription.

And when we get one it wont be used thaaaaat much anyways, like it will be used. But not for long drives and stuff, max like 200km with return (like 100km to the destination and 100 km back) once a year and the rest will be just like 15 min-15km drives.

And yea, ive tried the Tesla site since i know used teslas they sell comes with extended warranty, but apparently they dont have any used cars.. of model s or model x... Which is weird. But yea, we got a own huge natinal selling and buying platofrm in Norway called "finn.no" where its alot to choose from lol.

So a newer, maybe 2015 version of a 75D or 85D if we can get it thats gone a bit is the best bet then? Since they probably got the newest DU also?
. What is the maximum milage/km u would buy a model S with? ive seen a few on like 200 000km thats from 2015, would warranty fix whatever if anything happens?

Sorry for all the questions, but its alot of money to spend on a car and we just wanna make the right decision. Would u guys say they r as reliable also as the Toyota Hybrids we got? my dad currently got a 2013 Auris Touring sport with 220 000km on the odometer which still works as it was new. Would we feel the same way with the model S? We have also been looking at the Model 3 for my mom but my dad would rather want a Model S.

 

[RAW84]

The P85D is the only dual motor variant that was delivered in 2014, and those were all delivered in December.

The non-performance D's didn't come until March of 2015 I believe

 

[MagnusAG99]

The P85D is the only dual motor variant that was delivered in 2014, and those were all delivered in December.

The non-performance D's didn't come until March of 2015 I believe

R they the ones called "P85+"? I dont seem to find any P85D here.
And now apparently Tesla dont even make the 85 anymore. Lowest spec is 75D, then 100D, then P100D.

 

[Troy]

D means dual motor AWD. No D means RWD. P means performance. Here are the first registration times of Tesla cars in Norway.

Before February 2015: Model S 85, P85, P85+
Feb 2015 Model S P85D
April 2015 Model S 85D
July 2015: Model S 70D
Oct 2015: Model S 90D

 

[MagnusAG99]

D means dual motor AWD. No D means RWD. P means performance. Here are the first registration times of Tesla cars in Norway.

Before February 2015: Model S 85, P85, P85+
Feb 2015 Model S P85D
April 2015 Model S 85D
July 2015: Model S 70D
Oct 2015: Model S 90D

Okey.. mhmm lol, that is really confusing, and weird how there is literally non P85D for sale here but LOADS of P85+, what even does the + stand for? does it mean it comes with some sort of add-on package?

 

[RAW84]

R they the ones called "P85+"? I dont seem to find any P85D here.
And now apparently Tesla dont even make the 85 anymore. Lowest spec is 75D, then 100D, then P100D.

P85+ is not a P85D....the D signifies dual motor. But you are correct, the P85D is discontinued. It evolved into the P100D

I forgot you're in Europe, so the first dual motor variants weren't delivered to Norway in 2014 at all. Schedule is as Troy posted above. There may not be any CPO P85D's on the market in Norway right now, but I'm fairly certain some were sold there.

 

[Troy]

People are selling the Model S P85 and P85+ to upgrade to newer versions because these cars have neither AWD nor Autopilot. I think the + means sport suspension. Bjorn used to have a P85. Check out his videos here. Here is a summary:

Good:
2014 Model S 85 or P85 or P85+ cars have average range, no AWD, and no Autopilot.

Better:
2015 Model S 85D has average range and AWD and Autopilot 1.0.
2015 Model S 90D has above-average range and AWD and Autopilot 1.0.

Best:
2018 Model S 100D has excellent range, AWD, and AP2.5.
2019 Model 3 LRD will have excellent range, AWD, and AP2.5.

A typical Model 3 LRD configuration in the US would look like this:
$35,000 for the base version
$9,000 for long-range battery
$5,000 Premium upgrades package
$5,000 Autopilot
$1,000 non-black paint
$1,000 destination fee
Total: $56,000. If you don't need the range, you could consider the SRD at $47,000.

Here are the dates when some of the important features were introduced:

• Sep 2014 Dual motor AWD and AP1.0
• Apr 2016 Facelift. Model S cars after that don't have the black plastic nosecone.
• Oct 2016 AP2.0
• Aug 2017 AP2.5

 

[MagnusAG99]

P85+ is not a P85D....the D signifies dual motor. But you are correct, the P85D is discontinued. It evolved into the P100D

I forgot you're in Europe, so the first dual motor variants weren't delivered to Norway in 2014 at all. Schedule is as Troy posted above. There may not be any CPO P85D's on the market in Norway right now, but I'm fairly certain some were sold there.

Yea ive figured that out by now lol,

and i have truly no idea... there is quite alot of tesla`s down here, but its so rare to see the older versions with a "D". Its mostly just "S85" here.

People are selling the Model S P85 and P85+ to upgrade to newer versions because these cars have neither AWD nor Autopilot. I think the + means sport suspension. Bjorn used to have a P85. Check out his videos here.

and ahh.. so that might be it... i dont understand why even better suspension is needed but lol.
And yea, thats the dude with the model X, seen quite a few of his videos, lucky guy that...

And what u said there, the 2015 85D with autopilot, what is the difference between the new and the older autopilot? Is it just that the new ones can park themselves and be all autonomous?

and is the new model 3 not gonna have the numbers and letters anymore? like "P100D"?
im really wondering if the model 3 would be the best bet? anyone who knows what it will come with "features" wise? as base? i guess its gonna be a little different country to country but yea.
I cant even see the features of the model 3 on tesla.com yet so.
And by some weird reason it says i have been denied access to Tesla.com now... lol