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Considering Moving into new house. Can this panel handle a new 14-50 circuit?

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it is a 100amp panel on the outside of the house. the inspector said there "is no sub panel". There are a lot of spots already taken. I could use the 30amp dryer line as I have a gas dryer but was hoping to get a 14-50 installed like i have in my current place.

I'm surprised there is only a 100 amp panel here as i had 125 in my condo and this is a single family home. Can a sub panel be installed? i don't know what's entailed in that. To the left of this pic is the meter on the side of the house.
 
Almost every breaker is doubled up already, it's amazing you don't pop a breaker every day!

If you had your car charging in the summer off a 50 amp breaker (which there is technically room for), with A/C on and a few lights or an oven or a microwave, your main breaker would trip and your house would go dark.

I would upgrade to 200 amp service, even without the need for a charger (a few thousand $). If the panel is near the garage, you could even have them run some thick wire and get a 90-amp line in the garage in case you ever want a beefed up HPWC.

If you don't want to upgrade service, I'd stick to Level 1 charging off a 110v outlet.
 
Your AC load is 1/2 of your available supply!

No, this is not true. The AC needs a 50a breaker to be able to handle the startup surge current of the motor. The motor will have separate thermal protection which protects the wiring of the circuit.

You do not calculate the usage of that circuit as the full 50a of the breaker. Continuous run current is likely to be more like 20a or something (find the nameplate of your AC for details).

Almost every breaker is doubled up already, it's amazing you don't pop a breaker every day!

If you had your car charging in the summer off a 50 amp breaker (which there is technically room for), with A/C on and a few lights or an oven or a microwave, your main breaker would trip and your house would go dark.

I would upgrade to 200 amp service, even without the need for a charger (a few thousand $). If the panel is near the garage, you could even have them run some thick wire and get a 90-amp line in the garage in case you ever want a beefed up HPWC.

If you don't want to upgrade service, I'd stick to Level 1 charging off a 110v outlet.

While a 100a service is very small, there are extremely minimal loads in this panel. The heavy hitter is the AC and the dryer. @bottomsup stated they will be using a gas dryer, which removes that from the equation (which is a great way to free up capacity for EV charging btw). I am not surprised at all that 100a has been sufficient.

A NEC load calculation needs to be run to figure out how much capacity might be available in the panel. One of the factors that goes into that is square footage. How big is the house?

That panel is a relatively modern one (though no spring chicken). I don't see safety concerns with it.

There is a very good chance you could actually support a NEMA 14-50 on a 40a or 50a circuit which would let you use a UMC Gen 2 at the 32a charge rate (note that load calculation wise, whether it is 40a or 50a does not matter since the intended load is a UMC Gen 2 at 32a - so I would always wire for 50a).

From the external sheet metal, it would appear that the top two breaker positions are open which would trivially allow you to install a new 240v breaker, though there could be no bus bar behind that. I would need to see the spec sheet (is there on on the inside door lid?) or a picture with the panel cover off to know.

If it were my house, I probably would want to upgrade beyond 100a though. It is annoying that it is embedded into the outside of the building. That might make swapping it slightly difficult. Can you provide more pictures (zoomed out of the panel outside, etc...). I am wondering what gauge the feed wires into the utility panel are and what size conduit they have? It might be really trivial to upgrade to a 200a service if the right size conduit is in place already (likely is).

If you were really lucky there might be a way to replace the "guts" of the panel to at least 125a or maybe 200 without replacing the entire panel? Unlikely though.

Even if load calculations won't allow a full 14-50 for charging at 32a, you likely could at least do 30a (for a 24a charge rate) if you decommission that dryer.

Good luck and please report back on what you end up doing!
 
If you use the vacant 50 amp dryer breakers you should be fine. You can always try it, if it pops the breakers then you will need to add a sub panel or upgrade to a new 200 amp panel.

The dryer circuit is 30a, not 50a.

Also, you are not supposed to rely on the breaker popping to protect you. This is a matter of layered defenses. The load calculation is supposed to be the primary way of keeping things from being overloaded. Sometimes breakers don’t work properly...

But yeah, with that being said, the penalty of failure here is likely relatively low. Odds are that if you did overload it, the breaker would trip. And if it did not trip, at least the overload would be on wire or components that are in conduit or a metal box outside. But still, not advisable to push those limits.

I would be curious to see pictures of the inside of that panel and detailed specs on the bus bars and such. I wonder if the bus bar is sufficient to handle 125a but they only installed a 100a breaker? I also want to know what size and gauge wire is being used from the meter base to the main 100a breaker. Also what gauge and type of wire is being used from the meter base back to the utility (but you can’t see this without cutting the utility tag/lock off of it).
 
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I have a similar situation, also have 100A service to my condo. A while back I installed a gas range and that freed up that 30A breaker. I had the electrician turn off that unused 30A breaker and install a new 60A breaker and wired the HPWC to it. Never popped any breakers even when all lights are on and washer/dryer running. And I get the full 48A charge that my S can handle :)
 
I have a similar situation, also have 100A service to my condo. A while back I installed a gas range and that freed up that 30A breaker. I had the electrician turn off that unused 30A breaker and install a new 60A breaker and wired the HPWC to it. Never popped any breakers even when all lights are on and washer/dryer running. And I get the full 48A charge that my S can handle :)

Technically I am sure this violated NEC load calculations, but yeah, in the real world if everything in the house is gas and you don’t have AC load (or a pretty small AC) then you can get away with a relatively small service.
 
Technically I am sure this violated NEC load calculations, but yeah, in the real world if everything in the house is gas and you don’t have AC load (or a pretty small AC) then you can get away with a relatively small service.

Yup, it’s only a 1200sqf place and the furnace is gas as well. Was debating a gas dryer, but electricity is so cheap here it doesn’t make sense cost wise. No AC (nor is it needed in Seattle :().
 
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@eprosenx

I want to call out a special thank you to you for going above and beyond to help people with their wiring questions here. You attempt to answer EVERY one of these threads, and from your user name, its fairly obvious that you work with electricity in your day jobl . There are many others that always help out on these threads, but you almost always attempt to answer all of them in detail.

Thank you for taking the time to do so. Very very cool
 
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@eprosenx

I want to call out a special thank you to you for going above and beyond to help people with their wiring questions here. You attempt to answer EVERY one of these threads, and from your user name, its fairly obvious that you work with electricity in your day jobl . There are many others that always help out on these threads, but you almost always attempt to answer all of them in detail.

Thank you for taking the time to do so. Very very cool

Thanks! Happy to help.

Funny enough, I only tangentially work with electricity every day (in the datacenter industry). I mostly just go to meetings. ;-) I am not certified or licensed in any of this...

My username actually was assigned to me at the first job I had as my domain login account and it kind of stuck. ;-) The "x" on the end meant I was a contractor.
 
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It might be nice to have an automatic load manager for those people who can't upgrade their service, or for whom it's too costly. Suppose the total load is getting close to the main breaker shutdown threshold. In that case, the load manager would temporarily turn off one or two appliances, such as the AC and dryer. FPL has an on-call program that does this already, so it would be the same principle, just local to your home only.
 
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It might be nice to have an automatic load manager for those people who can't upgrade their service, or for whom it's too costly. Suppose the total load is getting close to the main breaker shutdown threshold. In that case, the load manager would temporarily turn off one or two appliances, such as the AC and dryer. FPL has an on-call program that does this already, so it would be the same principle, just local to your home only.
Or turn off the car charging when the main load goes high.

There is one out there... Solutions allowing for EV Charging Installations in Condos and Homes – DCC

If I remember from other posts, it cost about $900 + installation.

They have several variations that tap into different places: Breaker in main box, feed between meter & panel, etc.

Probably others as well.
 
Yeah, others have had success with that DCC box.

Generally that seems to be useful when service upgrades are really expensive or impractical. Typically this is in Condo’s and potentially townhouses.

Personally, I would much rather spend a couple grand on a service upgrade to 200 amps than to add a DCC box to try to “fit” in a 100a service. The DCC box is more complexity and could be a maintenance issue down the road.

I always prefer paying for copper and aluminum over electronics. Copper and aluminum have a *really* long service life...

Incidentally, Tesla needs to make a unit that clamps on to your mains and then will command the wall connector to retard the charge speed as needed to stay in the allowed range. Problem solved. Use the existing RS485 bus.