Considering the Model 3 and have a few queries.

[MrBadger]

Why a it best to keep the battery between 10-90% charged and not charge it to 100%?

The more extreme you charge/discharge the more wear you put on battery. Historical stats show 10-90 keep this to a minimum.

Nothing wrong with occasional transgression as long as you do not keep it at those levels for too long - Tesla indicate >90% as trip charge, <90% as daily charge.

 

[vitesse]

Why a it best to keep the battery between 10-90% charged and not charge it to 100%?

Lithium ion cells don't like being left at full charge. It can seriously reduce their life. Tesla, on the whole, reports the actual battery capacity, so 100% really is 100%. Tesla advise routine charging limited to 90%. 100% is fine if you are driving immediately but be warned that the final 3-7% takes a very long time, even on a supercharger. Some, fairly rare, Teslas have software limited batteries, e.g. 60kWh with a 75kWh pack. Owners of these cars can routinely charge to 100% because they're only actually charging to 60 out of 75, or 80% of the actual pack. Some other EVs do something similar so the gauge is calibrated to a 'safe' 100%. M3s show the full battery range in percent though.

 

[mo.dilwar]

But what I was meaning is, let’s say I have several months of driving no more than 30 miles, often doing 2-3 mile runs, if I then went on a long run would I potentially get 300 miles or would it be massively reduced due to the previous few months of short trips?

You should have no issue, but of course that 300 miles range is an average figure; battery temperature and weather conditions will dictate actual miles you can squeeze out.

I would recommend not having your car higher than 80/90% state of charge during those low mileage months.

FYI I do 2 miles round trips every week day morning for the school run. And normally only drive around 50 miles at weekends.

 

[snerkler]

There’s some battery hocus-pocus that reduces its degradation of you follow this practice.

There is no real harm in charging to 100% just before a long trip. But key thing is when the battery is at 100% for the first part of your journey you will not get any regen, which in the long run will be less efficient.

The more extreme you charge/discharge the more wear you put on battery. Historical stats show 10-90 keep this to a minimum.

Nothing wrong with occasional transgression as long as you do not keep it at those levels for too long - Tesla indicate >90% as trip charge, <90% as daily charge.

Lithium ion cells don't like being left at full charge. It can seriously reduce their life. Tesla, on the whole, reports the actual battery capacity, so 100% really is 100%. Tesla advise routine charging limited to 90%. 100% is fine if you are driving immediately but be warned that the final 3-7% takes a very long time, even on a supercharger. Some, fairly rare, Teslas have software limited batteries, e.g. 60kWh with a 75kWh pack. Owners of these cars can routinely charge to 100% because they're only actually charging to 60 out of 75, or 80% of the actual pack. Some other EVs do something similar so the gauge is calibrated to a 'safe' 100%. M3s show the full battery range in percent though.

You should have no issue, but of course that 300 miles range is an average figure; battery temperature and weather conditions will dictate actual miles you can squeeze out.

I would recommend not having your car higher than 80/90% state of charge during those low mileage months.

FYI I do 2 miles round trips every week day morning for the school run. And normally only drive around 50 miles at weekends.

Thanks all, very interesting. Can you limit the charge then so it stops charging when 90% full? What I’d do if I got one would be to leave it on charge overnight and of course I’d not be able to control how much charge went in unless it had an auto cut off.

 

[vitesse]

Thanks all, very interesting. Can you limit the charge then so it stops charging when 90% full? What I’d do if I got one would be to leave it on charge overnight and of course I’d not be able to control how much charge went in unless it had an auto cut off.

Yes - that's a standard feature and you can even set it from the Tesla app.

You might have thought you could set the car to stop charging at a certain time (at the point when cheap rate electricity stops, for example) but you only get a start charging automatically at a set time and a target charge level. You can stop charging manually of course. Therefore I use Teslafi (3rd party service) to do additional things like stop charging at a particular time.

 

[snerkler]

Yes - that's a standard feature and you can even set it from the Tesla app.

You might have thought you could set the car to stop charging at a certain time (at the point when cheap rate electricity stops, for example) but you only get a start charging automatically at a set time and a target charge level. You can stop charging manually of course. Therefore I use Teslafi (3rd party service) to do additional things like stop charging at a particular time.

Thanks, good to know.

 

[snerkler]

I know what else I meant to ask. What are the service intervals and costs, how quickly do they go through tyres (sensible everyday driving) and do the servicing costs and general maintenance (brake pads etc) cost more with the performance model compared to the long range?

 

[vitesse]

There is no set service interval

The car will inform you when something needs to be done. The brakes don't get used very much because of regen braking and this means they can corrode so disc checks and lubrication may be necessary once a year. Brake pads have been reported to last as much as 100K miles!

 

[snerkler]

There is no set service interval

The car will inform you when something needs to be done. The brakes don't get used very much because of regen braking and this means they can corrode so disc checks and lubrication may be necessary once a year. Brake pads have been reported to last as much as 100K miles!

Thanks. I heard the regen braking can be ‘significant’ but you can turn this off so it coasts like a ‘normal’ car?

 

[MrBadger]

It wont coast like a normal car. Its regen low and normal so always some regen going on. Takes no more than a couple mins to get right up (or down) to speed, so no reason not to use standard, although takes a little longer to master in every condition.

 

[nightowl]

Thanks. I heard the regen braking can be ‘significant’ but you can turn this off so it coasts like a ‘normal’ car?

I recall there being an option for high/low regenerative braking but I don't think it can be turned off completely.

I leave it set to high though. Seems to make more sense to me to have it generate some power back into the battery whilst also not wearing the brake pads out. I had a tendency to pump the accelerator pedal in my previous (manual) car, this has trained me out of that habit pretty quickly!

I do use the brakes occasionally but a majority of the time I let the regen do its thing.

 

[dhrivnak]

Fair enough I have the performance but the current weather being generally wet and 0-5C gives me an efficiency of around 64%. If the LR is 20% more efficient then fair enough but I suspect you aren’t constantly driving at 70-80mph

Correct as I do have Aero wheels and interstate is normally 66-72mph

 

[vitesse]

Thanks. I heard the regen braking can be ‘significant’ but you can turn this off so it coasts like a ‘normal’ car?

The M3 and most recent 'Raven' S and X can do 'single-pedal driving so the car can brake through regen right down to almost stopped. You basically hardly every need to use the brake pedal in normal circumstances; it's all about adjusting the throttle.

My car doesn't have this but I still only usually need to brake at very low speeds or when making a very sharp stop. I also use 'creep' mode - which is like an auto transmission when stationary, though it's a matter of preference.

 

[Jason71]

Thanks. I heard the regen braking can be ‘significant’ but you can turn this off so it coasts like a ‘normal’ car?

Regen is a big part of the energy efficiency so if you turn it down ( or off if that were an option) it will screw up your range.
Once you get used to it you would not want to. you can basically drive with one pedal which is great.

 

[Adopado]

Thanks. I heard the regen braking can be ‘significant’ but you can turn this off so it coasts like a ‘normal’ car?

It isn't a normal car! It's a superb combination of efficiency and performance. If you were to drive it without regen you would be missing the point. You would also be missing out on recouped energy i.e. you would reduce your range! When you slow down with brakes in any car you are just throwing away energy in the form of heat and wear. In an electric car you have the opportunity to regain a good proportion of that energy. No you can't turn regen off completely, though it can be in a lower mode. (I can't imagine why anyone would want to be in low mode.) There are no downsides, that I know of, to regenerative braking ... it works for Lewis Hamilton in his F1 car ... you should hear him complain when the regen system cuts out ... his brakes overheat and he can't run at the same pace.

 

[snerkler]

It wont coast like a normal car. Its regen low and normal so always some regen going on. Takes no more than a couple mins to get right up (or down) to speed, so no reason not to use standard, although takes a little longer to master in every condition.

I recall there being an option for high/low regenerative braking but I don't think it can be turned off completely.

I leave it set to high though. Seems to make more sense to me to have it generate some power back into the battery whilst also not wearing the brake pads out. I had a tendency to pump the accelerator pedal in my previous (manual) car, this has trained me out of that habit pretty quickly!

I do use the brakes occasionally but a majority of the time I let the regen do its thing.

Correct as I do have Aero wheels and interstate is normally 66-72mph

The M3 and most recent 'Raven' S and X can do 'single-pedal driving so the car can brake through regen right down to almost stopped. You basically hardly every need to use the brake pedal in normal circumstances; it's all about adjusting the throttle.

My car doesn't have this but I still only usually need to brake at very low speeds or when making a very sharp stop. I also use 'creep' mode - which is like an auto transmission when stationary, though it's a matter of preference.

Regen is a big part of the energy efficiency so if you turn it down ( or off if that were an option) it will screw up your range.
Once you get used to it you would not want to. you can basically drive with one pedal which is great.

It isn't a normal car! It's a superb combination of efficiency and performance. If you were to drive it without regen you would be missing the point. You would also be missing out on recouped energy i.e. you would reduce your range! When you slow down with brakes in any car you are just throwing away energy in the form of heat and wear. In an electric car you have the opportunity to regain a good proportion of that energy. No you can't turn regen off completely, though it can be in a lower mode. (I can't imagine why anyone would want to be in low mode.) There are no downsides, that I know of, to regenerative braking ... it works for Lewis Hamilton in his F1 car ... you should hear him complain when the regen system cuts out ... his brakes overheat and he can't run at the same pace.

Thanks. Sounds like I’d have to change my driving style as I’m one of those that starts ‘coasting’ quite early when approaching red lights etc, mostly so I don’t always have to a complete stop but I guess it dies save on brake wear too.

If the regen is that ‘aggressive’ does it trigger the brake lights to warn those behind?

 

[vitesse]

Thanks. Sounds like I’d have to change my driving style as I’m one of those that starts ‘coasting’ quite early when approaching red lights etc, mostly so I don’t always have to a complete stop but I guess it dies save on brake wear too.

If the regen is that ‘aggressive’ does it trigger the brake lights to warn those behind?

Usually - it depends on the level of retardation. I understand it's based on an accelerometer sensor.

I like the system because I tend to minimise brake use when cornering anyway. They do say that modern IC engines don't have much internal friction for engine-braking and to use the brakes more but certainly compared to my wife my foot isn't on the brake pedal half as much as hers in the same place and she's usually slower too I adapted very quickly.

The regen is quite adaptive. If you come off the power at 70 it won't slam on the anchors.

 

[nightowl]

I've found regen to be generally really comfortable to work with.

Rather than switch to the brake pedal and press that gently to slow down at an anticipated stop, you just need to raise the accelerator gently instead. It's really easy to get used to. Add the "hold" mode as well and it will come to a complete stop without you even needing to press the brake once you're familiar with it (applies brakes automatically when stopped.)

The only time I need the brake pedals now is if I need to slow down a little bit quicker than regen will handle by itself.

The brake lights do come on if the regen is slowing the car significantly. I'm not sure what the deceleration rate is for triggering this but I'm pretty sure if you're just gradually slowing (like "coasting") it won't put the brake lights on. Been meaning to check this out.

 

[snerkler]

Usually - it depends on the level of retardation. I understand it's based on an accelerometer sensor.

I like the system because I tend to minimise brake use when cornering anyway. They do say that modern IC engines don't have much internal friction for engine-braking and to use the brakes more but certainly compared to my wife my foot isn't on the brake pedal half as much as hers in the same place and she's usually slower too I adapted very quickly.

The regen is quite adaptive. If you come off the power at 70 it won't slam on the anchors.

I've found regen to be generally really comfortable to work with.

Rather than switch to the brake pedal and press that gently to slow down at an anticipated stop, you just need to raise the accelerator gently instead. It's really easy to get used to. Add the "hold" mode as well and it will come to a complete stop without you even needing to press the brake once you're familiar with it (applies brakes automatically when stopped.)

The only time I need the brake pedals now is if I need to slow down a little bit quicker than regen will handle by itself.

The brake lights do come on if the regen is slowing the car significantly. I'm not sure what the deceleration rate is for triggering this but I'm pretty sure if you're just gradually slowing (like "coasting") it won't put the brake lights on. Been meaning to check this out.

Cool thanks.

You’ll all be glad to hear I don’t have any more questions,....... for now

 

[vitesse]

Cool thanks.

You’ll all be glad to hear I don’t have any more questions,....... for now

I forgot to say that as you drive there is a representation of the car on the big screen and you can see when the lights, including the brake lights, are on