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Considering winter tyres

VanillaAir_UK

Well-Known Member
Jun 17, 2019
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6,526
Surrey, UK
Lots of existing discussions here

 

M3noob

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Supporting Member
Aug 22, 2019
891
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Beyond the pale
Polish_20211020_122647468.png
 
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spon88

Member
May 2, 2019
603
343
Derby
I've thought about it, but given how mild the winters have been in Bucks over the last two years there's no need. Further north, beyond the wall, then it'll be worth doing.
I hear you. But one light snowfall and even some heavy surface water wouldn't see me driving with the original 20s - I'd be in the missus's car. With the 18s and Cross Climates, plus the 4WD, no issue at all. They also perform really quite well in the summer months although I'm no racer these days :)
 
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CaptFish2003

Member
May 18, 2021
117
50
uk
I considered the official winter wheel set from Tesla, but 1800 for 4 winter tyres and another set of identical 18” seemed to make little sense. At the end I just swapped the tyres to cross climates and keep the pilot sports for later. Costed less than 600 and will do the job for the next couple of years.
 

GRiLLA

Active Member
Jul 5, 2020
1,116
1,169
UK
I hear you. But one light snowfall and even some heavy surface water wouldn't see me driving with the original 20s - I'd be in the missus's car. With the 18s and Cross Climates, plus the 4WD, no issue at all. They also perform really quite well in the summer months although I'm no racer these days :)
You are nuts if you feel you need different tyres in the wet.

My point is for those in Southern England we hardly ever get snow, and when we do it's likely to be gone pretty fast. Perhaps if you lived fairly remotely and had a complex drive, but it's about 200m on the level for me to access the A40, and less than a km to the M40.
 

Casss

Member
Aug 6, 2021
94
61
Dorset
I hear you. But one light snowfall and even some heavy surface water wouldn't see me driving with the original 20s - I'd be in the missus's car. With the 18s and Cross Climates, plus the 4WD, no issue at all. They also perform really quite well in the summer months although I'm no racer these days :)
Sorry (to each their own) but... in the context of a heavy, absolutely rapid EV saying Cross Climates "perform really quite well in the summer months" is like saying "Cross Climates perform really well in the summer months compared to Flintstone wheels in the summer months" :p

Staying mildly on topic - personally.... if there is any snow or nice, the Tesla won't be driven. Our van will. If not - both will stay at home. Play to strengths and all that.
 

spon88

Member
May 2, 2019
603
343
Derby
You are nuts if you feel you need different tyres in the wet.

My point is for those in Southern England we hardly ever get snow, and when we do it's likely to be gone pretty fast. Perhaps if you lived fairly remotely and had a complex drive, but it's about 200m on the level for me to access the A40, and less than a km to the M40.
Maybe and I'm aware that the original Michelin tyres are supposed to be good in the wet. Having aquaplaned twice on them I lost a bit of confidence. In the snow, no chance, at least not for me. If you're happy to rely on mild winters, I completely respect your choice. I'm happier knowing that I'm not going to get compromised whatever the weather and with minimal hit on performance. They look decent too
 

spon88

Member
May 2, 2019
603
343
Derby
Sorry (to each their own) but... in the context of a heavy, absolutely rapid EV saying Cross Climates "perform really quite well in the summer months" is like saying "Cross Climates perform really well in the summer months compared to Flintstone wheels in the summer months" :p
Maybe not quite as bad as you think and agreed it's not designed to be a performance summer tyre. But it's bloody good and more than adequate for my style of driving, even in the performance model. It's a great compromise IMHO.
  • Positive - Clear leader in the dry, good wet handling, shortest wet braking at warmer temperatures, best aquaplaning resistance in both tests, one of the best tyres overall in the snow, low levels of noise, low rolling resistance.
  • Negative - Average wet braking at cooler temperatures, expensive.
  • Overall - The new Michelin CrossClimate 2 had a near flawless test, with the only weakness coming in the wet at cooler temperatures where it couldn't quite match the best. It was the most summer-like tyre in the dry, led both deep water tests, was one of the best in the snow, and had low noise and low rolling resistance. A really impressive performance from the new tyre, and a worthy upgrade to the CrossClimate+.
 

C225

Member
Jul 7, 2021
170
135
Scotland
I'm getting some CrossClimates 2 put on my LR at the weekend, as i live a bit up a hill in Scotland so snow can be a problem sometimes. (Although first time buying new tyres will mean mild winter for the next couple years :D )

My Pilot sport 4's have only done 2.5k miles so i will still put them back on next summer to make both set's of tyres last the lease period of the car...
 

Jeeves

Member
Feb 12, 2020
611
355
UK
My point is for those in Southern England we hardly ever get snow, and when we do it's likely to be gone pretty fast. Perhaps if you lived fairly remotely and had a complex drive, but it's about 200m on the level for me to access the A40, and less than a km to the M40.
It's not really about snow, but rather the poor performance of the summer tyres in temperatures below 7ºC, particularly in the wet. Your braking distance will be significantly diminished on the A40/M40 when cold even if the road is salted. That's why cross-climate tyres are probably a better choice for many in the UK if you're minded to put different tyres on for the colder months. Each to their own of course.
 

KennethS

Member
Supporting Member
May 3, 2019
584
410
UK
The PS4S supplied on the M3P is a summer tyre that is not recommended by Michelin for use when temperatures are below 5c. There are numerous cold weather tests available on the internet comparing tyre performance in cold conditions. Even in the absence of snow and ice the tyre, which is among the best in warm weather, is severely compromised in terms of grip and stopping distance as temperatures approach freezing. With my wife driving and our young children in the car I feel it is money well spent swapping to winters. The UK doesn’t have Nordic conditions but we do see some snow and it routinely gets cold enough, particularly in the early morning, that for us it seems prudent. Each to their own.

It is not an indictment of our driving skills but when a panic stop is necessary the winter or all weather tyre is dramatically more capable in winter.

I have a sceptical view of auto insurers — fast to take your money but may look for any basis to deny a claim (fortunately this is anecdotal and we are claims free). On a cold winter morning I wonder if being on a summer tyre that the manufacturer states is not for use in sub-5c conditions just gives an additional vector of attack? For relatively not a big investment in winter wheels and tyres, it removes that opening. And we find the car far more sure-footed on the winters than we did the first winter when we went out with the stock PS4S tyres.
 
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KennethS

Member
Supporting Member
May 3, 2019
584
410
UK
Numerous YouTube videos about it including this one posted by @Dangerous Fish were what finally persuaded me. Some rather hairy experiences with 20" BMW run flats made me consider the idea in the first place.
👍🏻

I was thinking of posting a few links, but those who choose not to believe the differences in cold weather conditions will ignore or find reasons to challenge the findings anyway. We live on a country road with a long steep incline before getting to a more main road. Although our cars have the right tyres for conditions it worries me when cars are coming down the hill whilst we are heading up. Many a car has gotten squirmy (or worse) applying brakes coming down the hill in the winter. We can ensure we have the right tyres but not the other cars sharing the roads. And the majority of people think their driving skills are far above average. Having grown up in a harsh winter country and learned to drive there (where winter tyres are mandatory), I am probably more sensitive to the issue than is common here.

I enjoy the all out summer performance tyres on the M3P but they have their limitations.
 

Steely

Member
Jul 30, 2020
131
71
England
There certainly are plenty of drivers who haven't had a day of professional training beyond "how to pass your test" and truly believe they are gods gift on the road. Then they meet with someone who has and is. Reality hits home (but not for long) as the saying goes "A legend in your own mind".
And the odd numpty who thinks that there's no difference in tyres will probably slide off the flat earth that they also believe in.

Having driven 3 RWD Jaguar XF's for the past 6 years and used winter tyres on every one I can confirm that as soon as the temperature drops to around 7 deg, ie nowish they make a huge difference. Rear wheel drive with winter tyres will perform better and safer than 4x4 on summer tyres in cold adverse conditions. Its not about the odd snowy day its about using a different type of grip and compound.
I know because i have the experience.
This year and in fact on Monday my M3P will be shod with 245 35 20 Continental T860's. and in about 5 / 6 months time they will come off until next year.
But......
a) don't forget to tell your insurance.
b) using other than summer tyres on hot roads will not offer optimum cornering and extend your braking distance.
 

Fursty Ferret

Member
Jun 13, 2021
205
151
Leeds
Will be fitting the Vredestein Quatrac 4 on my Model 3 LR. I live in North Yorkshire and while it's rare to get snowed in, the road to town tends to ice over. Was also looking at the CrossClimate 2 (as they're a bit cheaper) but have heard reports that the V-shaped tread pattern is annoyingly noisy on the motorway.

It's a company car but my experience of driving in cold conditions suggests that it's worth the money for me, even if the lease company win with the cost saving.
 

spon88

Member
May 2, 2019
603
343
Derby
Numerous YouTube videos about it including this one posted by @Dangerous Fish were what finally persuaded me. Some rather hairy experiences with 20" BMW run flats made me consider the idea in the first place.
Eye opening! Come to think of it the "excursions" I had on the original 20s were when it was wet and cold, albeit not freezing. Happy with my choice of Cross Climates for most of the year. If I do stick the original 20s back on, it will only be for a few months across summer. That said, the rims are not that durable and prone to the odd pothole prang, as well as a bumpier ride. So overall, other than slightly worse aesthetics and a bit less grip if you want to go hooning around (in summer), I'll stick to the 18s for most of my driving.
 

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