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Consumer Reports Article 7-14-16

Discussion in 'Autonomous Vehicles' started by BillC, Jul 14, 2016.

  1. BillC

    BillC Member

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    My reply to ConsumerReports assertion that AP should be disabled:

    "Applying your reasoning to modern aircraft, we'd all be grounded! My wife and I have driven our Model X thousands of miles on Autopilot and love it. While we've found it to work as intended on open highways, what has not been mentioned is the elimination of stress, fatigue, and the potential for a rear-end collision Autopilot provides in congested freeway traffic. My 5 pm commute on the Santa Monica Freeway was a nightmare before Autopilot!"
     
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  2. TrevTremaine

    TrevTremaine Member

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    Probably better to say that cruise control on ALL vehicles should be disabled as there exists a chance that people will not use it properly and ALL manufacturers are thereby using the consumers as guinea pigs. Heck, they might as well say that anyone who gets into an accident while driving a car should have their license suspended pending a lengthy (and costly) review of the accident - it's really reaching. It's a matter of how one uses this as a tool. Consumer Reports is using these incidents in rather a knee-jerk reaction.
     
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  3. markn455

    markn455 Member

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    I don't put much value in Consumer Reports opinions. Therefore, I rarely ready any of their material and do not subscribe to their publication. If this is what they are saying it only further confirms my decision not to subscript to their publication.
     
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  4. Cosmacelf

    Cosmacelf Active Member

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    Tesla was always playing a very dangerous game by not quickly releasing statements about all those YouTube videos showing people driving without looking straight ahead. Elon's wife even posted one. Their lack of communications gave people implicit permission to drive like that. Yes, their manual stated otherwise, but common practice would be to disregard that as just the lawyers being over cautious.

    So, now someone has died that likely would otherwise be alive had he being paying attention, and NOW Tesla sees fit to post a blog post about the proper way to use Autopilot (which they haven't posted yet, just promised). If all Tesla gets out of this is bad press, I'll be amazed.

    They are now very much in danger of huge liability lawsuits (their manual won't protect them at all, after all they had to release a blog post, too late), and the very likely possibility of regulators shutting down Autopilot. If not in the US, then most probably in Europe.

    All this was avoidable but they wanted the awesome publicity of self driving cars without having to put a damper on it with very public disclaimers.

    Hubris...
     
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  5. Pdub2015

    Pdub2015 Member

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    Hubris? Kind of like how none of the manufacturers of ICE cars with excess of 600 horsepower have never release any statements opposing all those YouTube videos of street racing, right? Yes, their ads usually include words like "professional driver on a controlled race track" but those videos are just guys racing down public streets and highways at, shall we say, ludicrous speeds...
     
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  6. dyoreo

    dyoreo Member

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    It is time to read the manual and take responsibility for operating the vehicle.

    It is not always someone else fault.
     
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  7. Todd Burch

    Todd Burch Electron Pilot

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    My opinion of Consumer Reports has dropped precipitously lately.

    My take: If you believed Autopilot drove the car for you, you don't show the judgement required to operate a vehicle in the first place. The marketing name is not the cause of the accident. Marketing is just that. Marketing. What about BMW's "iDrive"? That sounds even more like it drives for you. "Pro-Pilot"? Seriously. Blaming even 0.5% of the accident on the marketing name of the system is a total copout.

    Why doesn't Consumer Reports address all of the other manufacturers of clearly inferior steering assistance systems? Every test you can find shows Tesla's steering to be AT LEAST several times better, yet CR calls out Tesla? And you can't say that it's because Tesla's system is so much better, because all of the other systems are available to the public to use as well.
     
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  8. HookBill

    HookBill Member

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  9. JeffreyY

    JeffreyY Member

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  10. BluestarE3

    BluestarE3 Active Member

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    If CR has concerns about Tesla's use of the term "Autopilot", I hope they are equally, if not more, concerned about Mercedes Benz claiming their new E-Class is "self-driving":

    [​IMG]
     
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  11. TrevTremaine

    TrevTremaine Member

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    I love the fine print at the bottom of M-B's ad "does not guarantee that a driver would not suffer injury in the event of a collision".


     
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  12. BluestarE3

    BluestarE3 Active Member

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    But we don't know that to be the case yet, do we? Do we know for a fact his use or misuse of Autopilot was a contributing factor? What if he had been driving a (insert name of any car) on that highway at excessive speed and that same truck had pulled out in front of him -- would he have had time to even react manually to avoid the collision or even ameliorate the force of the impact? For the sake of argument, let's say Autopilot had detected the sudden threat of the truck in front of the car, would it have been able to do anything about it? Would sudden and massive braking by Autopilot have avoided the collision and death of the driver in this situation? There will always be situations where a collision is unavoidable. Autopilot and even the eventual fully autonomous vehicle cannot overcome the laws of physics.

    Until the investigation is completed, we don't know yet if the accident could have been avoided by Autopilot or by the vehicle operator (with or without the availability of Autopilot or his reliance on it).
     
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  13. Cosmacelf

    Cosmacelf Active Member

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    That's why I said likely would have been alive. The most likely scenario was that the truck driver saw the Tesla in the distance and he thought he had enough time to make a turn, and probably would have if the car had braked. You are right that we don't know, but for the accident to be unavoidable, the Tesla would have had to be relatively close to the truck, so the likelihood of the driver not seeing the Tesla is much smaller.

    In truth, we might never know the answer. You can assume the tractor trailer driver is going to lie to protect himself. Absent some other witness, we may never truly know.
     
  14. Todd Burch

    Todd Burch Electron Pilot

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    Can someone tweet that above MB ad to Consumer Reports? Would love to hear their response...
     
  15. BluestarE3

    BluestarE3 Active Member

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    #15 BluestarE3, Jul 14, 2016
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2016
    I'm not a professional truck driver, so I don't know what's taught in truck driving school, but as a mere "civilian" car driver, I would never pull out in front of a moving vehicle in cross traffic based on the assumption that the other driver will slow or stop for me. If I can complete the turn safely in that situation, sure, I would proceed. If it's unsafe or too close to call, I would wait until the other vehicle has passed.
    Not necessarily. The truck driver could have been negligent, inattentive (how many hours had he been driving that day?) or simply misjudged the situation when pulled out directly in front of the Tesla. Unless the truck stalled while making the turn or the Tesla suddenly accelerated after the truck driver started making his turn safely, the onus was on the truck driver to avoid making a dangerous move.
    Well, he did claim the Tesla driver was watching a Harry Potter movie. The police later stated that neither the DVD player nor laptop found in the Tesla were turned on.

    All I'm asking is that we armchair pundits and the so-called media not rush to judgment and blame either Autopilot or the Tesla driver for the accident until the investigation is complete. And you're right that it's possible we may never know all the facts.
     
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  16. engle

    engle Member

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    Good idea! Just did it:

    Russell Engle on Twitter

    Russell Engle on Twitter: "@ConsumerReports Why don't u complain abt Mercedes "self-driving car"? By YOUR FLAWED LOGIC this ad should be pulled https://t.co/CqT0XlFtmo"

    Please "Like" and re-tweet! This is war!

    I'm so p*ss*d at C.R. I have a subscription I will cancel. I suggest others do the same, and let them know why.

    Let's have a panel discussion about AutoPilot at TMC Connect 2016 in terms of how the Tesla community should respond to all this media B.S. that is probably being orchestrated by BIG OIL and the ICE companies that are slow to copy Tesla.

    I've already had somebody I talked to about my X tell me they are "really worried about AutoPilot". I told my own 83 y/o mother to just not order the $2,500 option -- she can always add it later if/when she feels comfortable. (Honestly, AP drives a LOT better than she does on the highway!!)

    P.S. Ironically, I'm returning a leased 2014 E-Class in Aug. My X replaced it. LOL. No More ICE!! No More CO2!! No More Benzene carcinogens from my vehicle!!

    (Sorry I'm kind of upset right now. Will have to control it when I AutoPilot to an appt. I have at 3 pm PDT. lol)

    Read the fine print below the "self-driving" ad:

    mercedes-self-driving.jpg
     
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  17. engle

    engle Member

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    Somebody should tweet back the red warning graphic we see EVERYTIME we engage AP.
     
  18. Todd Burch

    Todd Burch Electron Pilot

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    This logic is why some people blame rape victims instead of the rapist.

    "She didn't say no strongly enough".
     
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  19. Todd Burch

    Todd Burch Electron Pilot

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    I'd say hubris is releasing much crappier systems (multiple times to an order of magnitude worse, substantiated by multiple independent tests) and NOT calling it "beta"...
     
  20. Mark Z

    Mark Z Active Member

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    Consumer Reports is totally out of order in their request. They have owned and driven the Tesla Model S and X and have not taken such a stance before. IMHO, outside influence is being applied to the entire news media industry, as much of news media income is from the ICE vehicles where the majority of vehicles do not have lane management.

    Since some drivers play Pokémon GO while they drive, maybe Consumer Reports should call for a complete deletion of Pokémon GO from all smart phones and tablets.
     
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