UnbeknownstToAll
Member
I'm not totally familiar with the CR methodology. So, they lump Model S & X into the same roll up of score? Sounds like an idiotic thing to do.
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Moving on (hopefully)...
Like supratachophobia stated, I think the early drive units were putting much more torque through the reduction ratio in a P85 than they do now in my lowly updated 60.
If that is true, then the recent cars using non-P rear units should have different replacement rates...and one would expect that recent P cars in the ludicrous V2 or 100kWh variants are probably pushing that reduction gearset harder than ever...though without the wheelspin that can result in devastating load spikes.
I would love to see drive unit replacement data broken down by variant to better understand the situation. I think there was a self reporting spreadsheet but I can't seem to find it.
Like supratachophobia stated, I think the early drive units were putting much more torque through the reduction ratio in a P85 than they do now in my lowly updated 60.
If that is true, then the recent cars using non-P rear units should have different replacement rates...and one would expect that recent P cars in the ludicrous V2 or 100kWh variants are probably pushing that reduction gearset harder than ever...though without the wheelspin that can result in devastating load spikes.
I would love to see drive unit replacement data broken down by variant to better understand the situation. I think there was a self reporting spreadsheet but I can't seem to find it.
As a newbie I can understand why you don't want to accept the CR data. You somehow think it devalues your investment and you only want to hear positive news (pretty flowers and birds chirping). Rest assured that all of us here that disagree with you understand that the review was a snapshot of owners issues at that time and that much has been improved since. As best we can we are dealing with facts here not wild speculation or conspiracy theories.
Wow...your persistant...I'll give you that.
If you had read my posts you would have seen this in varying forms:
"I'm not saying this happened(CR data was corrupted) nor early Teslas did or did not have some problems but these reviews/ratings warrant looking at with a critical eye"
- No one reading my posts(unless they completely misinterpret) would conclude they contain "wild speculation" or "conspiracy theories"
- You seem very smug attempting to paint my posts as something they are not(which is odd-and begs to ask "what is this guy up to?") and suggesting that my posts in this thread on this forum will somehow effect the value of my vehicle is just silly(and a bit "conspiracy theoryish" don't you think?)
whitex
Well-Known Member
The article you quoted says both positive and negative reviews can be bought, so I guess it's equally likely that current CR score is too high. We have no proof that any tampering happened, but if entertain the idea of tampering we need to consider both ways.
whitex
Well-Known Member
And regardless, I would happily do it again. Most of my visits were for superficial things and happened in the first year.
Conspiracy theorist? lol
I have no reason to doubt CR's rating. They work hard at these things. I don't know why people here try to discredit a publication like CR. Anyone who has been around since 2012 knows that early deliveries had a ton of problems. CR's rating is no surprise to me, but I don't take it personally or try to spin wild hypotheses about how their ratings system can be manipulated. That's just crazy talk.
Model S and Model X had a lot of problems, no two ways about it. It's not surprising, as these were the first sedan and crossover vehicles to be produced by this company. Using CR's own data, the Model S maintains an over 90% customer satisfaction rating. THAT is the only metric that matters, in my opinion.
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As you can see from my signature block it wasn't an issue. Only issue I had was one of the door handles stopped to open. Warranty took care of it. No issues with the car what so every. Order a new one. I have mid 2014 model so model year before mine had all the issues with the drive unit etc.
fwiw, I don't think anyone was looking to discredit CR, but rather point out that with Tesla, CR's general vulnerability to ballot stuffing (something they themselves acknowledge is a potential risk, and to their credit, say they have taken measures to respond to the risk) meets a company and product that has already been known to be attacked, both by entrenched interests (see the recent Bloomberg article on this) and industrious one-off crusaders (see the NHTSA suspension "issue" reports).
somnambule
Member
A few things:
1. Based on anecdotal evidence on this forum alone, the reliability rating seems reasonable.
2. Tesla is a new company. Their improvement from year-to-year is very encouraging. If you want to be appalled, take a look at that Mercedes S-class score. They should be out of this learning curve thing by now.
3. Life is about trade-offs. Do you want to go to the good restaurant (Model S) and accept some logistical hassles (like having to plan and make a reservation in advance), or the empty restaurant down the street that nobody goes to (Lexus LS) where you can walk in and get a table right away any time? Different strokes for different folks.
1. Based on anecdotal evidence on this forum alone, the reliability rating seems reasonable.
2. Tesla is a new company. Their improvement from year-to-year is very encouraging. If you want to be appalled, take a look at that Mercedes S-class score. They should be out of this learning curve thing by now.
3. Life is about trade-offs. Do you want to go to the good restaurant (Model S) and accept some logistical hassles (like having to plan and make a reservation in advance), or the empty restaurant down the street that nobody goes to (Lexus LS) where you can walk in and get a table right away any time? Different strokes for different folks.
Yet most people reading your posts come to the same conclusion I did. You just don't like being wrong. Oh well. We can stop now as I won't be seeing any more of your "theories". :shrug:
Electricfan
Active Member
It's a statistical summary of reported problems. If you don't like the results, I can only suggest you avoid data, and get all your critical analysis from this forum.
I ALWAYS get my critical analysis from this forum. Where else??
omgwtfbyobbq
Active Member
I think consumer reports reliability ratings refect consumer complaints for the most part. I remember reading that two different model year Prius plugins had different reliability ratings even though they were identical models. I guess the difference was because of complaints about the Nav/audio/etc interface.
Is this the article you mentioned?
Elon Musk Is the Target of Anonymous Trolls and Phony Op-Eds
Good points made throughout.
I love my Model S, and wouldn't even remotely consider replacing it with a shiny new ICE car.
That said, my 2012 hasn't exactly been reliable. It's only stranded me on the side of the road once (well... actually in the middle but who's counting?), but it has a long list of things that have been replaced, including several drive trains, at least 4 cars worth of door handles, repeated pano repairs, touchscreen, bumper carrier, hood and tailgate latches and lifters, TPMS, etc. The service has been pretty amazing so this has been far less disruptive han it might have been, but I've really had much more than a modicum of "early adopter" issues.
Tesla has worked much of this out over time. They've figured out the drive train issues, for example, and it's obvious that modern production cars are much more reliable. Even so, I'm sure the overall 2012-2016 statistics would support CR's evaluation.
That said, my 2012 hasn't exactly been reliable. It's only stranded me on the side of the road once (well... actually in the middle but who's counting?), but it has a long list of things that have been replaced, including several drive trains, at least 4 cars worth of door handles, repeated pano repairs, touchscreen, bumper carrier, hood and tailgate latches and lifters, TPMS, etc. The service has been pretty amazing so this has been far less disruptive han it might have been, but I've really had much more than a modicum of "early adopter" issues.
Tesla has worked much of this out over time. They've figured out the drive train issues, for example, and it's obvious that modern production cars are much more reliable. Even so, I'm sure the overall 2012-2016 statistics would support CR's evaluation.
yup.
fwiw, beyond the focus of that article, among us investors, we've found so much of the media coverage (from the likes of CNBC, the Wall Street Journal, LA Times, Barrons, and on and on) to be ignorant at best, intentional FUD hit pieces at worst, for almost two years we've had a separate stickied thread just for debunking gibberish, Articles re Tesla—Fact or Fiction? it wouldn't be shocking if someone invested $5-10K to try to tank Tesla's CR ratings... just the stock market players who've sold Tesla short alone have $8 billion riding on their bets that Tesla will go down. of course, $8 billion isn't even pocket change compared to what a transition to EVs would mean to the fossil fuel industry.
Absolutely. It's easier and simpler to explain the ratings based on the facts we know first hand. Whether it's FUD against Tesla or FUD against CR the same principle applies.Understood, but I think Occam's razor probably applies here.
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