Consumer Reports: Latest Autopilot “far less competent than a human”

[diplomat33]

Wrong. Watch the video above. She mentioned that the car started to move to the next lane and she had to take over.

Nav on AP never initiates a lane change when there is a red line on the screen. So the car moving over and her having to take over must have happened when the screen showed it as ok to make a lane change. But maybe the car behind them suddenly accelerated just as the CR car started the auto lane change and that is why the CR tester took over?

 

[diplomat33]

Are one of these two parties simply wrong, or is there something else going on?

CR are outsiders. They are not well versed in how Tesla cars work. So I think they came in, tested NOA without confirmation, without really understanding it and probably not testing it thoroughly enough and then passed judgment. It is clear to me from their report that they don't really understand NOA. So their report will be flawed. That is why I will trust my own direct experience with NOA and the experience of my fellow Tesla owners, much more than what CR reports. We Tesla owners know our cars well and use NOA all the time. We are in a better position than CR to give an accurate and more comprehensive judgment of NOA.

 

[Eno Deb]

I'm really confused. In what state is it illegal to "pass on the right" when on a freeway or interstate?

One is mentioned right in the article:

"We checked with a law enforcement official who confirmed that this is considered an “improper pass” in Connecticut and could result in a ticket."

CR are outsiders. They are not well versed in how Tesla cars work.

Is that so?

So I think they came in, tested NOA without confirmation, without really understanding it and probably not testing it thoroughly enough and then passed judgment. It is clear to me from their report that they don't really understand NOA. So their report will be flawed. That is why I will trust my own direct experience with NOA and the experience of my fellow Tesla owners, much more than what CR reports. We Tesla owners know our cars well and use NOA all the time. We are in a better position than CR to give an accurate and more comprehensive judgment of NOA.

Well, I have a car with NoA and I think their article is spot on. I have seen nothing to indicate that "they don't understand NoA".

 

[Big Dog]

The complaining about the passing on the right is complete BS.

If someone is driving slowly on the left hand lane, what are you supposed to do?! No one who drives around where i live would not pass an utterly slow moving vehicle on the right if it was safe to do so. And you can turn that mode off if you want to so this reviewer keeps this feature on by setting lane change setting to Mad Max and then whines about it?

Pointing out this is a violation of law seems to be some fine quality gratuitous BS from CR. This is no different than 95% of the drivers generally driving a few miles over the speed limit in the real world.

Maybe CR should write an article about how human drivers violate some traffic or other 100% of the time and therefore should be banned from driving because they are dangerous lawbreakers.

Note, the CT trooper did not say 'would result in an infraction' but 'could result in an infraction'. If the guy in the left lane is doing 55 in a 65 zone, passing on the right is the only option to get around the guy who is slowing down all traffic.

Also, pointing out that the car did not automatically return into the right lane after passing is also questionable. If another pokey car is ahead in the RL, I'll stay left until I pass that second car too. Perhaps NOA just sees ahead and thinks, 'hmmm, I can go back to high lane, but then 10 seconds later, I'll be back passing in teh left, so why not stay in teh left lane and keep passing folks.'

.

 

[acoste]

I'm really confused. In what state is it illegal to "pass on the right" when on a freeway or interstate? Granted, I've virtually lived my whole life in the "armpit of the midwest", but I'm not aware that it is illegal to pass on the right when on a freeway or interstate highway? In fact, I make it a habit to "stay right unless passing", which I learned in Driver's Ed back in 1968 and it appears that nowadays, 85% (or more) of the current drivers have forgotten that or ignore it. It seems most drivers come down the on ramp and immediately go into the middle or left lane and virtually "park" their car there forcing people to pass them on the right. They seem to think it is their "right" to choose an interstate lane and drive at whatever speed they choose ignoring that they are in fact breaking the law by not yielding to faster drivers. What they don't realize is that the faster driver trying to get around them might just be having an emergency and is driving to the hospital because someone had a heart attack, someone got stabbed or shot, or their wife is about to deliver. I ALWAYS yield to faster drivers just because I have NO IDEA why they are driving faster. True, they might just be idiots that like to drive faster, but do you really want to jeopardize a life because you SUSPECT they might not have a reason for driving fast? Yield to them, move to the right. If they have no reason for speeding, they just might find karma a mile or two up the road when a trooper pulls them over.

I'm not familiar with Connecticut but searched and found this:

2005 Connecticut Code - Sec. 14-233. Passing on right.

"(4) upon a limited access highway or parkway free from obstructions with three or more lanes provided for traffic in one direction."


This is what they mentioned, it passed on the right on a 2 lane road.

 

[acoste]

Nav on AP never initiates a lane change when there is a red line on the screen. So the car moving over and her having to take over must have happened when the screen showed it as ok to make a lane change. But maybe the car behind them suddenly accelerated just as the CR car started the auto lane change and that is why the CR tester took over?

I think the photo and the text underneath are misleading on purpose. But the story is correct. She said the police car was approaching at a high speed difference. Tesla doesn't have rear facing radar to check for those.

 

[diplomat33]

I think the photo and the text underneath are misleading on purpose. But the story is correct. She said the police car was approaching at a high speed difference. Tesla doesn't have rear facing radar to check for those.

I agree. My conclusion is that the police car was somewhat far away so the Tesla's blind spot system did not flag the lane change was unsafe, and started to move over. But the driver saw that the police car was actually approaching at a fast speed, so they deemed the auto lane change unsafe and aborted. Do we have video proof to see if the CR driver made the right call or if NOA could have done the lane change safely? Perhaps, the CR driver just overreacted and NOA would have been fine? But if the CR driver was correct in aborting, it should not surprise us. Tesla is clear that drivers still need to pay attention. There are obviously going to be situations where the driver needs to abort a lane change. I do think that with better rear camera vision NN, the car should be able to handle a fast approaching car from the rear much better.

 

[banned-66611]

 

[diplomat33]

WOW. That is definitely not my experience with NOA. Although, I have a Model 3 and I am in the US so that probably changes things.

 

[dgatwood]

I'm not familiar with Connecticut but searched and found this:

2005 Connecticut Code - Sec. 14-233. Passing on right.

"(4) upon a limited access highway or parkway free from obstructions with three or more lanes provided for traffic in one direction."


This is what they mentioned, it passed on the right on a 2 lane road.

If enough tickets get issued, people will demand that the law get fixed to be sensible. So it benefits everyone if Tesla aggressively increases the probability of AutoPilot passing other vehicles on the right in Connecticut. Just saying.

 

[acoste]

If enough tickets get issued, people will demand that the law get fixed to be sensible. So it benefits everyone if Tesla aggressively increases the probability of AutoPilot passing other vehicles on the right in Connecticut. Just saying.

This is very strict and enforced in Europe. No one passes on the right over there. Makes sense this way if there is an accident suddenly in front, people can pull to the right immediately without checking the right lane. Pulling to the left in an emergency situation isn't an option because one might end up facing the oncoming traffic.
But this rule works only if people respect the keep right rule. Left lane is for passing only.

 

[CarlK]

I bet you the guy who wrote that article broke traffic laws everyday. Everyone does. I did not bother to read the article but that single description put it in the sensational garbage category.

Tesla said last month its cars had already made 9 millions lane changes without a single accident, probably without a single traffic citation either. CR is doing the same thing again. Injecting it's own opinion over hard data. Like the last time when the Model S got its highest ever owner satisfaction rating but it rated the car not recommended using its weird methodology. Huh? You are not recommending a car that most consumers who bought the car will be satisfied?

 

[CarlK]

This article reminds me of the shocking article written by a roboticist 2 years ago:

Tesla Autopilot Review: Bikers will die

It's shocking because the scholar didn't disclose that Autopilot has been beta and the scholar was clueless of many of its limitations including its inability to avoid hitting cyclists.

Similarly, Consumer Reports should have informed potential buyers that they get what they pay for: a beta product that acts like an unfinished product so be a good sitter to the system if they wanted to pay for that.

Yes CR failed to inform that autopilot is just driver assistant and requires driver attention all the time. The yet to be released FSD will be using new HW3 and new FSD neural net that has not been released to the public. That is what needs to be better than human driver. In either case the machine will continue to learn and get better each day. Again CR did not seem to understand or want to mention it.

 

[iTech]

Again CR did not seem to understand or want to mention it.

It's not available, therefore not relevant for what they're able to test.

 

[tomas]

From my experience, it takes weeks to develop a diving “style” where one is comfortable with AP and integrates it into the driving process. It did for me. Prior to that, cautious people are scared by it and reckless people give it too much leash.

The problems with almost all journalistic reports: they don’t have/take the time to do this, and they don’t RTFM; instead relying on other journalistic sources as their starting point.

 

[CarlK]

The problems with almost all journalistic reports: they don’t have/take the time to do this, and they don’t RTFM; instead relying on other journalistic sources as their starting point.

Those lazy internet journalists, if you can call them journalist, only know how to do the least amount of work to get the most number of clicks. Writing a sensational article with the most eyecathing headline is the best way for them to get that.

That's not entirely their fault though. Many of their readers like to hear people's problem, instead of success, just to make their own miserable life to feel a little better. I bet you many of those people could never afford to buy a nice new car or do not have money to buy just a few shares of TSLA.

 

[CarlK]

This is very strict and enforced in Europe. No one passes on the right over there. Makes sense this way if there is an accident suddenly in front, people can pull to the right immediately without checking the right lane. Pulling to the left in an emergency situation isn't an option because one might end up facing the oncoming traffic.
But this rule works only if people respect the keep right rule. Left lane is for passing only.

Pretty funny that you know a lot about Europe but very little of the US yet you say you're located in California. What's so bad about if you're located in Stuttgart or Wolfsberg?

 

[acoste]

Pretty funny that you know a lot about Europe but very little of the US yet you say you're located in California. What's so bad about if you're located in Stuttgart or Wolfsberg?

maybe bc I lived there until my 30s

congrats for disagreeing with Connecticut's law

 

[JSalem]

The CR article is completely on target from my experience.
I'm a (mostly) happy Tesla Model 3 owner running 2019.16.2. I paid for FSD. I use the auto lane change feature almost every time I drive on the highway.
Auto lane changes are buggy for the reasons they mention:
- Doesn't recognize cars in the target lane that are a ways behind but accelerating quickly. This has led to several near misses for me.
- After a significant fraction of lane changes, AP slows down suddenly increasing the chance of a rear end collision.
Auto lane change has improved significantly since I first tried it. But it still requires constant vigilance.

 

[CarlK]

maybe bc I lived there until my 30s

congrats for disagreeing with Connecticut's law

C'mon you don't even know idiots block fast lanes in the US that force you to pass on the right and no one NOT pass on the right on California freeways? It's still way better than those who would just tailgate slow cars.

I also admit I break the speed limit laws many times every day I drive. I'm just not a hypocrite.