Consumer Reports: Latest Autopilot “far less competent than a human”
Automatic lane-change feature cuts drivers off, breaks Connecticut law, CR finds.
Automatic lane-change feature cuts drivers off, breaks Connecticut law, CR finds.
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diplomat33
Average guy who loves autonomous vehicles
A really nice rebuttal to the CR article:
My experience with NOA has been like in this video. The auto lane changes are safe and smooth.
My experience with NOA has been like in this video. The auto lane changes are safe and smooth.
That video doesn't actually address the issues they raise though. For example they point out that AP doesn't see brake lights or turning signals, and doesn't see very far back for vehicles approaching at high speed. In the video he is doing 50 and the other cars not much more.
Also there was the illegal pass on the right that it made multiple times.
Is there any evidence that AP reacts to brake lights, for example?
Also there was the illegal pass on the right that it made multiple times.
Is there any evidence that AP reacts to brake lights, for example?
diplomat33
Average guy who loves autonomous vehicles
No, but seeing brake lights and turn signals is a "FSD feature" that Tesla has not released yet. My assumption is that it will probably be released with the AP3 FSD update. So CR is basically complaining that Nav on AP does not do something that we already knew that it does not do yet.
And passing on the right only happens in Mad Max Mode which the article conveniently forgets to mention.
The complaining about the passing on the right is complete BS.
If someone is driving slowly on the left hand lane, what are you supposed to do?! No one who drives around where i live would not pass an utterly slow moving vehicle on the right if it was safe to do so. And you can turn that mode off if you want to so this reviewer keeps this feature on by setting lane change setting to Mad Max and then whines about it?
Pointing out this is a violation of law seems to be some fine quality gratuitous BS from CR. This is no different than 95% of the drivers generally driving a few miles over the speed limit in the real world.
Maybe CR should write an article about how human drivers violate some traffic or other 100% of the time and therefore should be banned from driving because they are dangerous lawbreakers.
If someone is driving slowly on the left hand lane, what are you supposed to do?! No one who drives around where i live would not pass an utterly slow moving vehicle on the right if it was safe to do so. And you can turn that mode off if you want to so this reviewer keeps this feature on by setting lane change setting to Mad Max and then whines about it?
Pointing out this is a violation of law seems to be some fine quality gratuitous BS from CR. This is no different than 95% of the drivers generally driving a few miles over the speed limit in the real world.
Maybe CR should write an article about how human drivers violate some traffic or other 100% of the time and therefore should be banned from driving because they are dangerous lawbreakers.
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M3BlueGeorgia
Active Member
The problem is that this feature isn't in the AP (Autopilot) package, it needs FSD or EAP.
Then you have to switch on the auto-lane change feature for Navigative-on-Autopilot.
However, I'd agree with CR, that this very specific option (NoA with automatic lane change) isn't ready to have been released.
Tam
Well-Known Member
The very nature of "beta" means it is not a finished product.
An unfinished product is usually not ready for a commercial release.
When I bought my Model X in 2017, it could work only on highways. And on highways, the maximal speed that it could work was 35 MPH.
Operating 35 MPH in a 70 MPH zone around here in my area was definitely not ready for a commercial release.
However, if consumers are willing to pay for a beta, I had no regret that it could only drive 35 MPH and not ready for a commercial release because I have known that it's beta. Though it's bad at first, it would gradually get better if you have time and patience.
So where are the follow up articles from CR about how every other driver assistance feature in the world is also at the moment not on par with a decent human driver, when considering edge cases?
In related articles, the sky is blue, the earth is flat, etc.,
What this article SHOULD be about is when Autopilot is used as instructor with a driver paying attention AND the system paying attention, are you safer.
In related articles, the sky is blue, the earth is flat, etc.,
What this article SHOULD be about is when Autopilot is used as instructor with a driver paying attention AND the system paying attention, are you safer.
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Elon said NOA is FSD on the highway and IS feature complete.
diplomat33
Average guy who loves autonomous vehicles
NOA is designed to be FSD but is not FSD yet. And NOA is "feature complete" because it has all the initial must have features that Tesla wanted to put in before they would release it. I've personally used NOA where my car drove on the highway with no driver intervention on my part. All I had to do was hold the wheel and the car did everything, from lane changes to taking exits with no problem. But there are of course edge cases to solve and other things that Tesla will add to NOA to make it even better and eventually make it reliable enough to be FSD.
CR is asking the wrong question. Of course NOA is worse than a human. Question is whether combination of attentive human plus NOA is better than a human. And it is. So if people would just use it as intended and stop expecting too much autonomy, they’d be safer.
Of course, some of this is Tesla’s fault for over hyping. But really, is this the first case of a company exaggerating product capabilities in their marketing? Are we so Pollyanna and naive that we buy product marketing hook line and sinker?
Of course, some of this is Tesla’s fault for over hyping. But really, is this the first case of a company exaggerating product capabilities in their marketing? Are we so Pollyanna and naive that we buy product marketing hook line and sinker?
Eno Deb
Active Member
Do you guys sometimes read your own posts and imagine what a normal person who doesn't hang out on Tesla forums would think?
diplomat33
Average guy who loves autonomous vehicles
If you look at the official blogs and Tesla website, I don't think Tesla overhypes. But Elon does overhype for sure. And the anti-Tesla folks like Blader are happy to throw it back into Tesla's face when features don't live up to the hype.
Hmm, that video just cemented my view of why I dont like NoA.
His claim at 1:15 just proves his mirrors must be adjusted incorrectly that he didn't see that truck coming and concludes that car is better than a human. I also would not sit with my blinker on while 4 cars pass me waiting to make a lane change, although that is probably a regional thing.
Despite that guys claim, I have had NoA cut someone off. It did it by taking sooooo long to change lanes that by the time it was done the guy in the faster lane was inches from my bumper and tailgating me. It is like a passive aggressive slo mo cut off.
What happens at 2:35ish in the video is absolutely how NoA is going to get me rear ended. His car slowed down from 70 to 56 in the faster lane BEFORE making the lane change. That is one of the biggest reasons why I don't use NoA.
diplomat33
Average guy who loves autonomous vehicles
Let's remember too that any shortcoming that NOA has now, can be fixed with better software and pushed out via OTA update. That is the beauty of Tesla's software updates. NOA is an ever evolving system that will get better over time.
You'll say this for years. Trust me I've seen many more seasons of this soap opera than you have.
diplomat33
Average guy who loves autonomous vehicles
I've definitely set NoA attempt to pass on the right without mad Max. Mad Max is just bizarre and useless. It's frenetic.
No, Elon said NOA was FSD on the highway and that its feature complete. That was his exact words, so either we take him at his words and use his logic and perspective or we completely reject it. You can't cherry pick, this isn't burger king.
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