Consumer Reports recommends Tesla disable Autosteer and make changes to AutoPilot

[valkeriefire]

Obviously I can't prove CR got "leaned on", and I stated that clearly. In politics it is easier to trace the flow of the money, but in business we would be naive to assume it isn't happening just the same. Here in Nevada the Public Utilites Commision (all of whom were appointed by the "pro-solar" Republican Governor) recently voted to increase rates on customers who have solar panels on their residential home roofs. Prior to the rate change, it took roughly 7 years of operating your solar panels to pay off your investment. Now it takes over 10. The net effect was a huge gift to Nevada Power/Burkshire Hathway/Warren Buffet and Solar City laid off hundreds of Nevada employees due to reduced demand for solar. When the you look into the backgrounds of the Utilities Commision, they are mostly former energy company lobbyists. The Utilites Commision even had paid government employees who were using their personal social media accounts to attack solar energy. The Utilities Commision is supposed to be "unbaised" and balance the needs of state citizens with corporate interests. I don't see any objective balance there.

I'm a little jaded. This has nothing to do with CR and nothing directly with Tesla but I firmly believe there are a lot of powerful players who want Tesla to fail and fail big. They'll use money to buy negative press. I bought my MS just to fight those people.

 

[GoTslaGo]

CR has a little program, "build and buy" I think via True-Car or something.

You pay a little extra, configure the car you want, enter it, and they will spit out a list of dealers in your area that have the car. With a CR "negotiated" price. I have to wonder if they get some extra revenue from that.

I've used it in the past. It will give you only certain dealers, guess not all of them participate.

 

[xav-]

I remember years ago paying $20 to get receive a report on the invoice price of a car. When I realized that they charged $20 for something that was available for free at edmunds I called and requested a refund.

 

[zambono]

Good refute Consumer Reports Calls Out Tesla's Autopilot, Tesla Doesn't Care

I trolled the CR Facebook page with it and you should too, also the comments on the link to the article on their FB page

 

[RogerHScott]

The reality ( I think ?? ) is that the camera isn't in the braking system loop at all. I believe that auto-braking is strictly controlled by the radar which can't see more than a few feet above ground

I don't know about auto-braking specifically, but others have pointed out and I have independently confirmed that TACC does, in fact,
use the front-facing cameras.

 

[RogerHScott]

Because the (TACC system in the) car doesn't "see" anything -- it doesn't employ visual information at all.

I was mistaken here -- believed another post w/o sufficient independent confirmation.

 

[RogerHScott]

This all sounds like auto-steer, rather than TACC. Just to confirm this, I'll have to try an experiment blocking the camera and seeing whether TACC still functions.

My experiment confirms that I was mistaken and TACC does rely on the front-facing camera.

 

[Cebe]

What model- or brand-specific training have you received for any passenger vehicle you've ever owned or driven? You buy a car, you
drive it off the lot, you're on your own. We're not talking about "cars" in general, or even "EVs", or even "(semi-)autonomous vehicles" --
we're talking about one particular version of the AP system in one model of vehicle.

Not with a (new) Tesla. They spend close to an hour walking you through every aspect of the car (even getting you to succeed in plugging it in to charge.) Also, while it was pointed out that this is a TACC, rather than AP related issue, since the whole "beta" thing got mentioned, it is worth pointing out that AP is not on by default when you get the car - you have to find it in the options, you have to enable it, and you are warned before and after that this is in beta, and that you are still in charge.

Of course... Do not push this button!

 

[iffatall]

When I got my car delivered at the factory in Dec 2013 (of course non Auto Pilot), the walk through was not much really. In most aspects, I already knew more than what he was telling me (thanks to TMC research while waiting), and at many points I even corrected him!

I am sure there are all kinds of delivery specialists. Some may be good enough that I would even consider their walk through a qualifying training session for AP. But I also wouldn't be surprised if there are other kinds who are not as knowledgeable, and may even mislead.

 

[Xenoilphobe]

Here is the message I left on the CR forum in response to their poor comment:

TACC or Traffic-Aware Cruise Control (TACC) or like systems are installed on multiple brands of cars - please revisit your article - autosteer had nothing to do with this accident, multiple companies use the same/similiar technology to control distance from the object in front their vehicle. As an owner of two Model S's with a cumulative total of 100,000 miles on the ODO, I wouldn't want to be in any other car during an accident. I would also ask you to review the term Auto Pilot and reference that in your article too. It's disappointing to see comments like this from such a highly regarded source. What has happened to CR over the last five years? Safety used to mean something - now one reckless driver who had a record of excessive speeding gets killed in a pretty common crash and we must disable the safety features of the car? Really? I am stunned - I thought your charter was to provide value, safety and advocacy for the consumer - when did that change at CR? I have been an avid follower of CR for several decades - that loyalty was really shaken by this article.

Also as a motorcyclist I have faced this exact accident scenario and only survived because I laid my bike down and rode under the trailer and survived. Unfortunately cars don't have a low enough profile to slide under the semi-trailer and survive. I'm not sure what other car would have stopped either, Toyota's DRCC would have done the same thing, Adaptive Cruise Control on the Cadillac - would have done the same too. I'm glad NHTSA is investigating... hopefully they can clear up the click bait media shower that is going on.

How do I cancel my online subscription?

 

[RogerHScott]

Not with a (new) Tesla. They spend close to an hour walking you through every aspect of the car (even getting you to succeed in plugging it in to charge.)

Maybe with your delivery experience -- certainly not mine. Mine consisted of a truck driver unloading the car in a grocery store
parking lot, saying "bye", and driving off. No Tesla employees were involved. I was rather surprised based on what I'd heard
about others' delivery experiences. That aside, do you think Tesla's (traditional) "high-touch" model really scales up to a mass-market
product?

 

[heems]

Here is another example of what CR SHOULD be looking at more closely at this time. If Pokemon Go doesn't lead to more accidents and injuries in the very near future then CR/NHTSA/etc. are not doing their true 'due diligence' in protecting us from ourselves. In this short video, CNET attempts to find the best Pokemon Go car to go racing around the streets in. Imagine what this would be like if your friendly neighborhood teens were behind the wheel. Just listen to the instructions given to the drivers while they toodle around town:

The race is on for Pokemon Go - Roadshow

‘Pokemon Go’ players fall off 90-foot ocean bluff

 

[John Stuckey]

I'm fearful that CR will recommend that the throttle control on my original 1931 Ford coupe be disabled. What is next, my Ford F-250 cruise control. If I don't pay attention to what the vehicles are doing and where they are going I will run into something. Warning, warning, danger approaching.....

 

[msnow]

Maybe with your delivery experience -- certainly not mine. Mine consisted of a truck driver unloading the car in a grocery store
parking lot, saying "bye", and driving off. No Tesla employees were involved. I was rather surprised based on what I'd heard
about others' delivery experiences. That aside, do you think Tesla's (traditional) "high-touch" model really scales up to a mass-market
product?

I think your delivery experience was atypical. Was it because you couldn't or didn't pick it up at a SvC?

 

[RogerHScott]

I think your delivery experience was atypical. Was it because you couldn't or didn't pick it up at a SvC?

Based on what I've read here I would agree it seems atypical. The nearest real service center is nearly three hours away.
But given that they're willing to send Ranger service out (and did so a couple of days later for a relatively minor issue) I was
surprised they didn't send someone at delivery time. It's not like I was asking for a big red bow on my car or anything crazy like
that

 

[msnow]

Based on what I've read here I would agree it seems atypical. The nearest real service center is nearly three hours away.
But given that they're willing to send Ranger service out (and did so a couple of days later for a relatively minor issue) I was
surprised they didn't send someone at delivery time. It's not like I was asking for a big red bow on my car or anything crazy like
that

What did you expect for spending over $100k on a car? You are so demanding sheesh!

 

[Pruitt]

What model- or brand-specific training have you received for any passenger vehicle you've ever owned or driven? You buy a car, you
drive it off the lot, you're on your own. We're not talking about "cars" in general, or even "EVs", or even "(semi-)autonomous vehicles" --
we're talking about one particular version of the AP system in one model of vehicle.

Talk about trying to obfuscate!

You initially said "No mass market product can require training to be safe." I replied that, as a generic product class, automobiles disprove your statement completely. Just look at the number of states that require formal Driver's Ed in order to obtain a first license. And at this point the Tesla Model S does not qualify as a mass market product, I believe - it's a niche market product. The 3 may be a different story.

If you want to look at the subclass of EV's only being a mass market product, fine - they still disprove your statement. They require over an hour of special training in order for first responders to safely extricate individuals, otherwise there is the potential for a fatal electrical shock.

Sorry it took so long to reply - I was on a 1500 mile road trip over the weekend, during which I safely and effectively used the autopilot functionality about 90% of the way, on both uncontrolled-access two lane and limited-access divided highways. The training I received to allow me to do this? I read the part of the owner's manual that talks about autopilot.

 

[msnow]

CR has a little program, "build and buy" I think via True-Car or something.

You pay a little extra, configure the car you want, enter it, and they will spit out a list of dealers in your area that have the car. With a CR "negotiated" price. I have to wonder if they get some extra revenue from that.

I've used it in the past. It will give you only certain dealers, guess not all of them participate.

Yes they get a fee but not from dealers and they use the money to fund research. Here's what it says on the CR website about this service:

"The Consumer Reports Build & Buy Car Buying Service (the "Service") is provided to Consumer Reports users by TrueCar.com. TrueCar operates the Service’s dealer network and the Service’s website. Consumers Union collects a fee from TrueCar for vehicles purchased from a TrueCar dealer. Consumers Union applies these fees to fund our testing programs. Consumers Union has no financial relationship with any dealer."

 

[RogerHScott]

You initially said "No mass market product can require training to be safe." I replied that, as a generic product class, automobiles disprove your statement completely. Just look at the number of states that require formal Driver's Ed in order to obtain a first license.

What portion of that training is specific to a particular brand or model of vehicle? None. Are you suggesting that Tesla-style AP will
(or should) be put in enough vehicles that the generic driver's training you refer to will cover it? If you want to have an "interesting"
experience, try taking a driver's exam in your Tesla and using AP.

And at this point the Tesla Model S does not qualify as a mass market product, I believe - it's a niche market product. The 3 may be a different story.

I thought we were talking about scalable solutions that would fit in with Tesla's vision of becoming a mass-market automotive company.
Was I mistaken?

[the subclass of EV's only] require over an hour of special training in order for first responders to safely extricate individuals

Wait, what? We're talking about driver/operators here -- where do first responders come into the picture? Or are we talking about
obfuscation again?

The training I received to allow me to [safely and effectively use[] the autopilot functionality]? I read the part of the owner's manual that talks about autopilot.

Such training is usually not targeted at average-to-above-average users, which I assume includes you. Most of the people who will need
more training to use AP safely don't even own Teslas yet. The current owners are something of a self-selecting group.

Glad you were able to use and enjoy it. I, too, recently took a 1500-mile trip and made good use of both AP and, most impressively
(to us, at least), the SpC network. I think trips like this really convert people into die-hard Tesla fans.

 

[nanimac]

Maybe with your delivery experience -- certainly not mine. Mine consisted of a truck driver unloading the car in a grocery store
parking lot, saying "bye", and driving off. No Tesla employees were involved. I was rather surprised based on what I'd heard
about others' delivery experiences. That aside, do you think Tesla's (traditional) "high-touch" model really scales up to a mass-market
product?

Back in 2013, that was the delivery experience here in Hawaii since the SC didn't open for 6 mos after the first delivery. Even then, new owners had to run around and pay their own taxes and get their own registration. But we didn't care, we were just excited to have the car. But we knew that's what would happen...you would think Tesla would be more proactive in at least letting you know the delivery process? I also wonder if the exceptional SC experience will be lessened when the 3 comes out.