Consumer Reports recommends Tesla disable Autosteer and make changes to AutoPilot

[sandpiper]

Not to quibble (well, maybe to quibble a little ), if he (simply) didn't see it, what difference does it make what color the thing he
didn't see was?

I think this was only brought up to so as not to confuse the the general public with the technical details of how the AP works; to make it more understandable to the general public that the AP system didn't notice the truck.

The reality ( I think ?? ) is that the camera isn't in the braking system loop at all. I believe that auto-braking is strictly controlled by the radar which can't see more than a few feet above ground.

 

[RogerHScott]

to make it more understandable to the general public

This seems like a variant on "lamp-posting": they're explaining what's easy to explain rather than what's relevant. The truth
is the truck could have been painted with fire-engine red diagonal strips and giant purple polka dots and the car still wouldn't
have "seen" it. Similarly, if the driver wasn't looking...

 

[sandpiper]

This seems like a variant on "lamp-posting": they're explaining what's easy to explain rather than what's relevant. The truth
is the truck could have been painted with fire-engine red diagonal strips and giant purple polka dots and the car still wouldn't
have "seen" it. Similarly, if the driver wasn't looking...

No disagreement. But, sadly, explaining simple technical concepts, to a large group is very very difficult. So I can forgive Tesla taking a bit of license on this one.

 

[shonline]

Some vindication here on the overreacting of CR:

Autopilot wasn’t on during Model X crash in PA and Musk says it would have prevented accident

One of the incidents contributing to the media frenzy snowball was a lie. Don't hold your breath waiting for the main stream media to correct this....

 

[tomp]

This seems like a variant on "lamp-posting": they're explaining what's easy to explain rather than what's relevant. The truth
is the truck could have been painted with fire-engine red diagonal strips and giant purple polka dots and the car still wouldn't
have "seen" it. Similarly, if the driver wasn't looking...

I have not followed the original thread(s) closely enough. Why would the car not have seen the truck, even if painted differently?

 

[shonline]

I have not followed the original thread(s) closely enough. Why would the car not have seen the truck, even if painted differently?

The radar would not have acted due to the scenario, so next option is Mobileye. Mobileye has been told to ignore this sort of thing to avoid it being confused with overhead highway signs. A limitation of the current hardware, but by design and known to developers.

 

[Pruitt]

No mass market product can require training to be safe. Even requiring training to be useful or enjoyable likely dooms it to never
being mass market. Perhaps there'll be multiple "modes" of AP operation where the default requires no training and is very nanny-ish
but the more advanced modes, with (mandatory?) training, will allow significantly greater autonomy/inattentiveness.

Are you kidding?
Automobiles as a generic product class are certainly mass market, and they require training to be used safely. You demonstrate that you have sufficient training to use it, supposedly safely, by taking a test and getting a license to operate the things on public roads.

 

[RogerHScott]

Are you kidding?
Automobiles as a generic product class are certainly mass market, and they require training to be used safely. You demonstrate that you have sufficient training to use it, supposedly safely, by taking a test and getting a license to operate the things on public roads.

What model- or brand-specific training have you received for any passenger vehicle you've ever owned or driven? You buy a car, you
drive it off the lot, you're on your own. We're not talking about "cars" in general, or even "EVs", or even "(semi-)autonomous vehicles" --
we're talking about one particular version of the AP system in one model of vehicle.

 

[RogerHScott]

I have not followed the original thread(s) closely enough. Why would the car not have seen the truck, even if painted differently?

Because the (TACC system in the) car doesn't "see" anything -- it doesn't employ visual information at all.

 

[woof]

Because the (TACC system in the) car doesn't "see" anything -- it doesn't employ visual information at all.

Tesla's TACC most certainly uses MobilEye who's camera and chip is in the center of the Tesla AutoPilot system. It's that camera thing behind the rear view mirror.

Exclusive: The Tesla AutoPilot - An In-Depth Look At The Technology Behind the Engineering Marvel

 

[David29]

Excellent point. Although I think the gist of it all is:

a) Yes the trucker cut across into incoming traffic.
b) Autosteering enabled the driver to not pay attention to the road, and this resulted in the accident.
c) Without autosteering the driver would have seen the truck and could have reacted, potentially avoiding the accident.

So, while autosteering could not have avoided the accident, it partially enabled a situation that led to it, but without including a secondary system that was fully capable of preventing it.

Well, that is an excellent point. If it were not for the auto-steering, indeed the driver would more likely have paid more attention. (Which assumes that the driver was in fact not paying attention, as seems to be indicated by his lack of braking.)

 

[stopcrazypp]

Jalopnik actually posted a rebuttal to CR today, saying CR overreacted:
http://jalopnik.com/why-teslas-autopilot-isnt-the-menace-you-think-it-is-1783682751

 

[Tam]

I just posted my comments below but I guess it needs approval because it doesn't show up just yet:



To require drivers to keep their hands on the steering wheel might not solve the problem of watching Harry Potter movie while on Autopilot.


The problem is: Lack of knowledge.


People might not understand that no matter how good technology of today is, crashes can still happen.


That is not an isolated problem for Tesla but airplanes with aviation Autopilot can still crash too.


To fix that problem, drivers need to read their owner’s manual. But:


The problem is: Drivers may not read owner’s manual.


If they do read it, they may notice that there are about 19 instances where the word “death” is mentioned.


If they do read it, they wouldn’t wonder why Tesla Automatic Emergency Braking did not brake to avoid collisions in their own tests, including a test on real live human.


The best tool to prevent accident whether in the presence of Autopliot or not, is a qualified driver who is in control of the operation of the car at all time.


The problem is: Untrained drivers


“Handoff Problem” is not isolated in cars but also in airplane Autopilot as well. Some pilots seemed to forget how to fly their planes when Autopilot transferred the controls back to them which resulted in crashes too.


Thus, the effort should be focused on increasing the quality of a driver.

 

[EVie'sDad]

Nope, not going to happen.

 

[RogerHScott]

Tesla's TACC most certainly uses MobilEye who's camera and chip is in the center of the Tesla AutoPilot system. It's that camera thing behind the rear view mirror.

Exclusive: The Tesla AutoPilot - An In-Depth Look At The Technology Behind the Engineering Marvel

This all sounds like auto-steer, rather than TACC. Just to confirm this, I'll have to try an experiment blocking the camera and seeing whether TACC still functions.

 

[Stoneymonster]

This all sounds like auto-steer, rather than TACC. Just to confirm this, I'll have to try an experiment blocking the camera and seeing whether TACC still functions.

It won't.

 

[gotz2ride]

Well it took 3 accidents to get CR to freak out. I wonder how many severe injuries, attacks, and robberies it will take for the same response to this new Pokemon game?

Pokémon Go Mania Leads To Dangerous Consquences

 

[sandpiper]

The problem is: Untrained drivers

“Handoff Problem” is not isolated in cars but also in airplane Autopilot as well. Some pilots seemed to forget how to fly their planes when Autopilot transferred the controls back to them which resulted in crashes too.

Thus, the effort should be focused on increasing the quality of a driver.

The problem is similar to what, I understand, happened at the advent of cruise control. At first there was some excitement and concern that the car could drive itself without foot on the accelerator. And at some point, for sure, the first person died because they didn't hit the brake because they had their feet up on the dash or something similarly stupid.

Eventually the public came to grips with how and when to use the technology and everything settled down. And yet I'm sure that some people still die because they plow into the back of another car while cruise is enabled.

I think "training" is overkill. No amount of training will help the idiots on youtube. You can't fix stupid. But I think that the tendency to do stupid things will decline as the novelty of the technology declines. Nobody will want to watch you show off your AP when everybody has one. The idiots on youtube will have to find some other way to entertain others.

 

[STbreaker]

Consumer Reports acts like they are unbiased. My personal opinion is that when they hailed the Model S as "the best car ever tested", they received a ton of backlash from the big auto makers who depend upon CR to sell their cars for them. Once the management at CR got enough flack from traditional builders, they "recanted" their recommendation by saying the Model S was unreliable. Simple politics and lobbying influence. I believe CR is doing the same thing here. My opinion only. No facts to back it up, but I think theory is sound.

As someone who lives in prime anti-Tesla lobbyist country, definitely agree with this sentiment. At this point, they seem willing to do/print whatever they can to soften up their "BEST CAR EVARR!!" initial response

I get CR for (almost) free and I do use their recommendations, but mostly as a spring board to knowledge. For instance, I can't say I know a lot about refrigerator brands/models. Thus, I will look at the overall impressions by consumer reports to get a better idea of who/what is in the marketplace. Then once I've narrowed things down, I'll do further research on that smaller pool of candidates. In the case of Tesla, it's clear that they think the actual performance of the car is top notch (which is a consensus), but that the reliability is suspect. It doesn't take much searching to see that most complaints were with fit/finish and that overall customer satisfaction is high. In less that one month of owning the car, I've had a door handle replaced, so that would go under "reliability" as a negative for sure. As a potential consumer it's your job to determine how that affects you and your propensity to purchase. After all, it's called consumer "reports" not consumer "commandments."

 

[EVie'sDad]

Calm down everyone,

The hysteria over Tesla’s Autopilot has been completely blown out of proportion