Consumer Reports reliability of Model S - worse than average

[efusco]

And I believe people lie (or to be fair, maybe unintentionally misrepresent). My friend with the Toyota would regularly tell people his cars were absolutely trouble free, yet I knew otherwise. I even used to help him out by driving him to/from the dealer when he'd drop it off for repairs and once had to come out and "rescue" him when he got a flat and the spare tire was seized by rust to the car. But in any conversations, he would say his cars are perfect and he hasn't had any problems at all. He really liked his cars and the brand, and I think he either forgot or didn't want to admit to anything that was contrary to his "world view" of Toyota at the time.

While there is no doubt the some people probably do lie, you need to realize that the questions on the survey are very specific...some people may have selective memory loss or choose to be deceptive, but the only people doing the CR surveys are those who subscribe to the magazine (or online) and thus are by definition people with a stake in the validity of the ratings that CR puts out. I am confident that the vast majority do their very best to respond, honestly, the questions on the survey... I always do, including the problems I've had with my Model S. It benefits no one, in the long run, to lie on these things. This is the sort of result that may spur Tesla into action to improve on those numbers and not rest on their laurels.

 

[msnow]

From the article:



This is so true. So really Tesla's competitors are other EV manufacturers where they've clearly set the bar.

Agree 100%.

 

[Skotty]

Just my take on it, but I get the feeling that, in general, Tesla owners are pickier about everything being perfect than average. For example, I'm not that picky with my car. I have a Volt I purchased new. It has had an engine rattle since day 1 (which I get to hear a lot, as I only get to drive about 30% on EV, the other 70% on the gas engine), along with a rear spoiler that makes a loud popping noise whenever there is a significant temperature change. I've never really given them much thought, as it's just the quirks of the car, and I probably wouldn't mention them to consumer reports. In other words, when it comes to other cars, I think expectations are lower. But with Tesla, expectations are very high and every little quirk gets a lot of visibility.

 

[russman]

I have a little over 30k miles after a year and 7 months. I've had a number of issues and just add them up till I go to the next visit. Most of them have been minor.

3 door handles have been replaced
Key buttons and key sensor
various rattles around the car
interior lights turning on while driving
balloon squeal
homelink flakey
some lock-ups
trunk hatch making weird noises when closing
moisture in tail light
sunroof issues
headliner trim curling

But even with all that, I wouldn't want to drive a different car. I'm very worried after warranty thought because $4k + deductible is a lot considering my mileage would make it only last for 5 years total. Keeping my fingers crossed.... but I couldn't and wouldn't want to drive another ICE car again. Waiting to put an order on a Model 3.

 

[Nubo]

I am not going to go all fanboi on CR, but the engineer in me does not quite understand the logic of the rating:


View attachment 98595

(source: Consumer Reports, http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/tesla-model-s-reliability.htm)

If I look at the categories, 11 remain the same, 3 trend down (to "good"), and 2 trend up, with the lowest rating being "fair", I am not seeing how the overall rating goes from "good" last year to "poor" this year. On a side note, as much as folks keep calling out the drive system, it has trended up from "fair" to "excellent".

Yes, it's like taking a bunch of 9's and 10's, a few 7's and 8's, and a 5, and saying the average is 3. I don't get it. Maybe 'cuz they taught me the "new math".

 

[TexasEV]

Just my take on it, but I get the feeling that, in general, Tesla owners are pickier about everything being perfect than average. For example, I'm not that picky with my car. I have a Volt I purchased new. It has had an engine rattle since day 1 (which I get to hear a lot, as I only get to drive about 30% on EV, the other 70% on the gas engine), along with a rear spoiler that makes a loud popping noise whenever there is a significant temperature change. I've never really given them much thought, as it's just the quirks of the car, and I probably wouldn't mention them to consumer reports. In other words, when it comes to other cars, I think expectations are lower. But with Tesla, expectations are very high and every little quirk gets a lot of visibility.

I think this is true, especially when it comes to creaks and squeaks. Most owners of other cars in this price range have come from other cars in this price range, but many Model S owners have never paid this much for a car before. Many haven't paid even half this much for a car before. So we expect perfection and complain about something that we would ignore in other cars. I also think the quietness of EVs make the squeaks and creaks that all cars have at times to be more noticeable and bothersome-- to me too.

 

[Owner]

One of my three garage doors, the one I use for the Tesla is not that great with the homelink, but I've always assumed it was the garage door opener not the car. Is there anyway to figure out the true culprit?

I have a little over 30k miles after a year and 7 months. I've had a number of issues and just add them up till I go to the next visit. Most of them have been minor.

homelink flakey

 

[ChadS]

If I look at the categories, 11 remain the same, 3 trend down (to "good"), and 2 trend up, with the lowest rating being "fair", I am not seeing how the overall rating goes from "good" last year to "poor" this year.

Consumer Reports says that they "normalize" the averages each model year. So you can't compare a 2014 Model S directly to a 2015 Model S as the colored dots are based on different numbers. (So it doesn't allow you to see which year of a particular car is "best" though you can roughly compute it from their prototypical car; but it does allow you to easily compare a 2014 Model S to other 2014 Model year cars - the original reason for the ratings - and to see how a car holds up over time compared to others as they age).

So even if the 2015's are better than the 2014's (which may or may not be true; the newer ones may be worse due to cost-cutting or as side effects of speeding up the production line) the 2015's may compare worse to other 2015s on the market than the 2014s compare to their contemporaries. Note that most of the 2015s are only about 6 months old and don't have a lot of miles. So, say, even if electric motors are more reliable than gas engines, if failures are more likely to happen early on (bathtub failure distribution), as opposed to gas which just gets worse over time, then you could see results like this. I'm not claiming that's the case here; just giving an example of how similar results between years can result in different overall reliability ratings when compared to contemporaries.

 

[Grendal]

I think CR is fair here. They aren't saying it is a bad car. Their perfect rating still stands. They just can't recommend them to buyers unless they are willing to accept the potential issues that can crop up.

I hope this will be a good thing and Tesla tightens up the production line and eliminates these small issues. We're two years away from the Model 3 and then things will get really crazy with 5 to 10 times the production they have now.

 

[omarsultan]

Consumer Reports says that they "normalize" the averages each model year. So you can't compare a 2014 Model S directly to a 2015 Model S as the colored dots are based on different numbers. (So it doesn't allow you to see which year of a particular car is "best" though you can roughly compute it from their prototypical car; but it does allow you to easily compare a 2014 Model S to other 2014 Model year cars - the original reason for the ratings - and to see how a car holds up over time compared to others as they age).

So even if the 2015's are better than the 2014's (which may or may not be true; the newer ones may be worse due to cost-cutting or as side effects of speeding up the production line) the 2015's may compare worse to other 2015s on the market than the 2014s compare to their contemporaries. Note that most of the 2015s are only about 6 months old and don't have a lot of miles. So, say, even if electric motors are more reliable than gas engines, if failures are more likely to happen early on (bathtub failure distribution), as opposed to gas which just gets worse over time, then you could see results like this. I'm not claiming that's the case here; just giving an example of how similar results between years can result in different overall reliability ratings when compared to contemporaries.

OK, I guess that sorta makes sense, although the presentation gives the impression of longitudinal data. What is not making sense to me is the consistency within a given year. If you look at 2015, everything I would consider a major system (engine, transmission, drive system [?], brakes, fuel, brakes) got a "5". If all that is outweighed by squeaks and wiggles (the "2" for body integrity), then that seems odd to me.

Note: The 1-5 scoring is me just converting the dot scale to numbers to take a look at the data differently, the CR scores are back on post #45

 

[taurusking]

I have a little over 30k miles after a year and 7 months. I've had a number of issues and just add them up till I go to the next visit. Most of them have been minor.

3 door handles have been replaced
Key buttons and key sensor
various rattles around the car
interior lights turning on while driving
balloon squeal
homelink flakey
some lock-ups
trunk hatch making weird noises when closing
moisture in tail light
sunroof issues
headliner trim curling

But even with all that, I wouldn't want to drive a different car. I'm very worried after warranty thought because $4k + deductible is a lot considering my mileage would make it only last for 5 years total. Keeping my fingers crossed.... but I couldn't and wouldn't want to drive another ICE car again. Waiting to put an order on a Model 3.

+1 to this

- - - Updated - - -

I think CR is fair here. They aren't saying it is a bad car. Their perfect rating still stands. They just can't recommend them to buyers unless they are willing to accept the potential issues that can crop up.

I hope this will be a good thing and Tesla tightens up the production line and eliminates these small issues. We're two years away from the Model 3 and then things will get really crazy with 5 to 10 times the production they have now.

Yes I agree with this.

I am at 1 yr mark.

Two drive units
Horn did not work
3 G connectivity issues
Door handles have to be replaced
Microphone for blue tooth has to be replaced
Heater Coolant pump has to be replaced on a road trip

Despite all these ...it is still a great car :wink:

 

[TexasEV]

I have a little over 30k miles after a year and 7 months. I've had a number of issues and just add them up till I go to the next visit. Most of them have been minor.

3 door handles have been replaced
Key buttons and key sensor
various rattles around the car
interior lights turning on while driving
balloon squeal
homelink flakey
some lock-ups
trunk hatch making weird noises when closing
moisture in tail light
sunroof issues
headliner trim curling

But even with all that, I wouldn't want to drive a different car. I'm very worried after warranty thought because $4k + deductible is a lot considering my mileage would make it only last for 5 years total. Keeping my fingers crossed.... but I couldn't and wouldn't want to drive another ICE car again. Waiting to put an order on a Model 3.

This is important to remember. I'd gladly have these issues, which Tesla service takes care of, rather than buy an ICE. There is more to consider in buying a car than frequency of repair.

 

[scott jones]

I totaled my S 85 on April 1.... no kidding and I'm glad because the value has gone down so sharply. I got a lot from the insurance company. Having said that I loved the car but there were a lot of issues with it. There should not be so many issues with a car that has very few moving parts versus an ice. Once they make a model year that has good nav, works well with my phone, allows 3rd party apps, goes as far and as fast as they claim (quarter mile)... and doesn't make all sorts of squeaks and rattles then I'll buy another one. I have no idea when that will be

 

[Beryl]

You are right. Part of the reason I bought mine was based on CR's "best car ever" rating and I suspect current prospective buyers will be hesitant due to this report. They were right back then and are probably right now (not sure). I'm also a TSLA investor...this is not good but I'm confident the company will put people at ease quickly.

Ditto on each point in this post.

I am clear about the difference in performance and reliability ratings but most consumers will not discount the latter in light of the former. This is particularly true for the newer MX customers where safety is seen as equally or more important than performance. Like it or not, reliability is confounded with safety. (You may survive a crash yet be stranded on a lonely highway or dangerous area with a nonfunctional vehicle.)

This is a disturbing development and I hope results in significant changes at Tesla. They will need to do something about warranty and service offerings to put customers at ease -- ASAP. It is critical that this is sorted before MX deliveries are underway and the reliability rating needs to be upgraded long before M3 reservations are taken, IMO.

That stated, I'm neither selling stock (may buy more) nor withdrawing my reservation. However, I will consider Tesla's response before placing my order.

 

[AWDtsla]

IMHO the only way for Tesla to diffuse this situation is with a comprehensive extended warranty option for new and CPO cars without a $200 per incident deductible. Otherwise few if any would want to own a Model S out of warranty and that will affect resale values substantially.

"defuse"

I'd settle for free and open service manuals with reasonably priced replacement parts, i.e. maybe $150 for a center screen instead of $2900. A low-resolution touchscreen can't cost more than it takes to replace the entire engine on an ICE econo-car.

 

[lesmoe]

buy it

I just read this article that Consumer Reports says the Model S is worse than average, when it comes to reliability. Supposedly they surveyed 1400 MS owners:

http://www.cnbc.com/2015/10/20/lexus-rolls-tesla-stumbles-in-reliability-survey.html

I've been looking to buy a Model S the first part of next year, but this report, as well as fellow member's experiences on the forum are concerning.
What happens when the car is out of warranty and something major happens? I don't knw if one can purchase a lifetime warranty, but I've heard the Dodge does offer this, for 2-3K. Seems with it, as most anything mechanical will eventually break.
I recall the Tesla sales guy telling me that some Model S' in Norway (or somewhere overseas) where being used as taxis and had only to deal with changing tires, brakes & wipers with over 100K miles on them.
Anyone out there with a high mileage MS that can share your experiences as to pertains to reliability?

i have a s 85 vin 40719 .. 15,000 miles .... not a single issue... my friend has over 40k a year older than mine he as had two issues.. one was not a broken part but they replaced it with a newer version for just in case.. the other was something got stuck in one of the air vents for the passenger.. he never had to pay for anything. never had to drive it in for service. they came left him with loaner model s and brought it back when they were done.

 

[omarsultan]

I guess, if anyone is going to be more upset, it should be BMW as the i3 was rated the least reliable hybrid/electric, even though, according to the chart, the Model S seems slightly worse than the i3.

 

[Thumper]

My home link is "flakey" also but homelink on my previous car was flakey also. I complained to the previous manufacturer and they said that they buy homelink from Homelink and it is not their product. It works poorly but it is not Tesla's fault particularly. I have never even brought it up with Tesla for this reason.

 

[ecarfan]

So that is the CR data on the Model S? I must be missing something. On a 1 to 5 scale the car averages 4.3, with solid 5's and 4's for major systems, but a 2 for one item "Body Integrity" and CR says the car is worse than average?What is "average"? I need to read the entire report, apparently.

View attachment 98616

 

[brucet999]

Fair point, but the overall grade moved two steps (from good to poor), not to an adjacent step (good to fair), so perhaps their is some other weighting or something that is not apparent.

My guess is that the industry average score (that's what Tesla's overall is compared to) has risen as Tesla's has dropped a little. I read recently that German, US and especially Korean cars have improved quality recently to the point that they are better than most Japanese models.