Continue with 6-20 (15 miles/hr) or go with wall charger?

[carguy84]

It's just a name that is still commonly used. Much like a 2x4. Ever measure a two by four? It has not been 2" by 4" for the lives of most people posting here.

Same with 12 volt car batteries. They are closer to 13 volts unless discharged to the point of being useless. And the term 110 VAC is still commonly used for today's ~117-122 VAC.

FWIW, I do call it 120 and 240 VAC.

-Don- Auburn, CA

220, 221 whatever it takes.

 

[Rocky_H]

New Model 3 owner! Have had the car for about a week and a half. I'm on the fence about buying the wall charger. Right now, I'm getting 15 miles/hour of charge with a 6-20 plug (which I just happened to have in the garage) on a 20 amp circuit.

My daily commute is 90 miles, and my company offers free charging at the office -- but I've not gone back to work since buying the car.

In the back of my mind, I'm thinking that a wall charger on a 60 amp circuit (or even more for future-proofing?) with about 44 miles/hour of charge, would be super convenient. My wife thinks it would be overkill.

There are certainly different levels. Trying to get by on regular outlets, with the 4-ish miles per hour charging rate is something that some people can get by on, but I think will too often come with frustrations and limitations, so I usually recommend going higher than that. But like you said, the 15 miles per hour is significantly better, and will generally cover most people's needs for 7 or 8 hour overnight charging. So some kind of 240V circuit at 20 or 30 amp is about what I consider reasonable minimum.

Whether 60A at home is overkill or not kind of depends on what other charging resources are around you. If you have some long driving days, and there aren't any good fast charging resources in your city, so that you really would need to count on some faster refills at home, then a bigger circuit might be kind of important. But if you have a Supercharger somewhere kind of close-ish that you could fall back on for that weird one or two days a year that you have several long drives, then I wouldn't bother overbuilding for that rare case.

 

[Needsdecaf]

220, 221 whatever it takes.

"You're doing it wrong"

"Time to get rid of the woobie"

 

[SigNC]

I think you could easily get by with 6-20 unless you have a long commute. I got by on a 5-20 for quite some time and yours is over 2x charging speed of that.

 

[Hawnboy]

I've been doing 6-20 plug for a few months now, no problems at all. My commute is 60 miles rt, no charging at work. If I end up getting free wall connector because of referrals I will install it on the same wiring and breaker and will dial it down to 16 A. For me to upgrade to anything else would cost around $2k+, so I plan to live with 6-20.

Same here!

 

[Mike Hawk]

My commute is currently ~10kWh this winter which equates to around 3 hours of charge @ 6-20. Of course this is easily topped off every night and will only decrease in the summer.

However for no real logical reason other than ego / unfounded anxiety I want to max out that UMC. I even had a local facebook buddy gift me his new in box wall charger since I used his referral code. SCORE!

My biggest problem is the location I park my 3 has a breaker maxed out 60a subpanel off one of my 200a main boxes (I have 200a x2 service). So I really only think I could safely charge at say 32a continus, ie no use for the wall charger. I need to do a load calc to see if I could even up my amperage to my 3. Even if I can I'd have to run new wire to the 6-20 outlet location and my OCDness won't allow an ugly conduit sticking out on the wall so I'd have to resort to busting out drywall and running thru multiple studs and then repatching/retexturing/repainting it. Totally not worth the ROI if I was a sane person.

#1stWorldProblems.

 

[SD_Engnr]

I installed a 6-20 for our other plug-in vehicle, and was using the Tesla J1772 adapter. I did that for a few months to see if it was sufficient, and just recently decided it was. So, I added a second 6-20 outlet for the 3, bought the 6-20 adapter from Tesla and now we can charge both cars at the same time.

So, my vote is to keep using the 6-20 until you decide that you need double or more than double the charging speed.

 

[davewill]

... my OCDness won't allow an ugly conduit sticking out on the wall so I'd have to resort to busting out drywall and running thru multiple studs and then repatching/retexturing/repainting it. ...

It's a garage. A little conduit just adds to the cachet, IMNSHO

 

[Sophias_dad]

My biggest problem is the location I park my 3 has a breaker maxed out 60a subpanel off one of my 200a main boxes (I have 200a x2 service).

#1stWorldProblems.

What do you mean by breaker-maxed-out? Is it really at its load limit, or is it that there are no more spaces left. By "load limit" I do not mean "do all the breakers combined add up to 60"(or really 120, if you are considering both poles separately). I mean have you actually checked what is on all those breakers and is it approaching the real-use limit? Many breaker panels can have duplex breaker inserted, to get two circuits in one breaker bay, or even duplex two-pole breakers, and sometimes a combination of the two(one two-pole in the middle of the pair, plus individually operated outer breakers) so you might be able to replace a pair of your current breakers with a pair of tandems and be good. Not all panels support duplex breakers, and some(or maybe most) restrict where they can be placed in the panel.

I had a 60amp subpanel just that had space for my new 50 amp breaker(with no tandems in place), Had I added all the 15 and 20's in there I would have been at 125 amps >before< I added the 50 amp two pole breaker! Happily, I measured the actual usage of the panel and never saw it go beyond 5 amps. Its a whole bunch of either seldom used or low-load circuits. In truth, I did eventually upgrade the feeding breaker and wiring for the panel to 80 amps, but mainly because I already had it on hand. I ran the HPWC at 40 amps for hours at a time before I got around to the 80 amp upgrade. The subpanel is actually rated to be able to handle 125 amps.

Its also cheap and easy to upgrade a subpanel, if the wiring to supply it is already in place, or if you just need more spaces.

 

[Mike Hawk]

I had to move a circuit over to a new tandem just so I could have panel space.

Before, lower left off breaker is the one servicing the Tesla outlet location @ 120v, notice no free space in this box

The goods! New 20a 2 pole, 20a single pole tandem, 6-20 outlet, 6-20 outlet cover, and some 18650s just for kicks.

And done, new tandem and 2 pole installed. The breaker in the off position is the new 6-20 Tesla circuit.

I'm pretty sure those feeders are 6awg so I can only have 60a servicing this panel. Then again I'm just a YouTube electrician.

 

[Sophias_dad]

Ok, so it really is stuffed. 22x20 amp circuits plus a two pole 20. I wonder if the subpanel was already exceeding circuit limits. I'm almost surprised you haven't been having trouble already, but I guess your panel is as underloaded as mine was. Maybe check the panel model number....

Those feeders certainly don't look any bigger than 6awg. Is that in conduit going back to the main? If so(and the panel can handle it) you might be able to pull new wires through it.

Make sure you torque the screws for both ends of your connections properly....

 

[NeverFollow]

Ok, so it really is stuffed. 22x20 amp circuits plus a two pole 20.
I wonder if the subpanel was already exceeding circuit limits.

I'm almost surprised you haven't been having trouble already,
but I guess your panel is as underloaded as mine was.
Maybe check the panel model number....

I'm quite confused about the wiring of this panel:

- On the bottom left, I can see a black feeder and on the bottom right a red feeder ( corresponding to phase A and B).

However, there is a mix of red and black wires on both output side of the circuit breakers,
but there is no specific order, I would have assume that they should alternate
to have one black and then one red corresponding to each phase, but may be this is not critical?

- Also the new dual circuit breaker (the on on the left which is OFF) use a white wire, color reserved for Neutral?

Would it be recommended to use AFCI/GFCI breakers instead of the 20Amp standard breakers?

Those feeders certainly don't look any bigger than 6awg. Is that in conduit going back to the main?
If so(and the panel can handle it) you might be able to pull new wires through it.

Make sure you torque the screws for both ends of your connections properly....

Using an Anti-Oxidant Compound would also be good recommendation.

 

[ivan801]

It is my understanding that you can use white wire for hot as long as you put black tape on it (as is the case in this photo).

 

[miimura]

It is my understanding that you can use white wire for hot as long as you put black tape on it (as is the case in this photo).

As long as it is a dedicated circuit and does not daisy chain to other outlets, what the pics show above is OK. However, it will make ALL connected outlets 240V, so make sure you know where the wire goes.

 

[Mike Hawk]

As long as it is a dedicated circuit and does not daisy chain to other outlets, what the pics show above is OK. However, it will make ALL connected outlets 240V, so make sure you know where the wire goes.

Correct, I verified it was a dedicated circuit before I switched the neutral to hot.

Trying to find that neutral on that bus bar mess was fun! Took me a couple trial and errors.

 

[NeverFollow]

It is my understanding that you can use white wire for hot as long as you put black tape on it (as is the case in this photo).

Correct, I verified it was a dedicated circuit before I switched the neutral to hot.

Trying to find that neutral on that bus bar mess was fun! Took me a couple trial and errors.

Thank you for the clarification. Using a white wire with a black mark makes sense!

I didn't relised that you were converting a 120 V plug into a 240 V using the existing wires.

A good tip to know for future projects.

 

[NeverFollow]

I don't believe this is correct. The Wall Connector is the fastest way to charge your car at home.

The Model 3 LR AWD can charge up to 48 amp.

Note: I searched everywhere on the Tesla.com information regarding the on board charger, but I din't find any specific detail for it?

However I found on various publications that:
- the Model 3 (Standard and) Mid Range has 7.7kw (240 V x 32 A) on board charger, and
- the Model 3 Long Range has 11.5 kw (240 V x 48 A) on board charger, while
- the Model S/X100 has a 17.3kw (240 V x 72 A) on board charger.

The only way to get 48 amp at home is with the Tesla Wall Connector when it is on a 60 amp circuit.
The UMC that comes with the car can only charge a max of 32 amps ( no matter if you are on 40 or 50 amp circuit).
...
Since I had to add an outlet on a closer wall, I put in a 14-50 outlet with 6 awg wire.
Now the UMC plugs directly in the 14-50 outlet with cord to spare.
The 6-20 was charging at 16 amps and added 15 miles every hour.
The 14-50 allows the UMC to max out at 32 amp and adds 30 miles every hour which is nicer.

I noticed that Tesla provides two second generation mobile connectors:

1. A ($300) Model S/X/3 Gen 2 Mobile Connector Bundle with a max output of 32 amps when using the 14-50 adapter,
which is included with the Model S/X/3.

2. A ($500) Model S/X Corded Mobile Connector with 240 volt 50 amp rated plug (with a max output of 40 amps ?),
which can be ordered online.

I wonder why the ($500) Corded Mobile Connecter is not rated as compatible with the Model 3?

- If it was the case, the Model 3 Long Range with a 40 A max output would add 37 miles every hour.

And using the Tesla Wall Connector with a 48 A max output would add 44 miles every hour.

 

[MorrisonHiker]

I wonder why the ($500) Corded Mobile Connecter is not rated as compatible with the Model 3?

- If it was the case, the Model 3 Long Range with a 40 A max output would add 37 miles every hour.

And using the Tesla Wall Connector with a 48 A max output would add 44 miles every hour.

It works fine for the Model 3. We had one but sold it to a Model 3 owner once we installed our signature wall connectors.

I believe Tesla just doesn't mention the Model 3 because the default Mobile Connector for the Model 3 only goes up to 32 amps. In some jurisdictions, people are allowed to install 14-50 outlets on 40 amp breakers instead of 50 amp breakers. Tesla is just playing it safe and setting the maximum to 32 amps as a 40 amp MC on a 40 amp breaker would cause it to constantly flip the breaker.

 

[Rocky_H]

However I found on various publications that:
- the Model 3 (Standard and) Mid Range has 7.7kw (240 V x 32 A) on board charger, and
- the Model 3 Long Range has 11.5 kw (240 V x 48 A) on board charger, while
- the Model S/X100 has a 17.3kw (240 V x 72 A) on board charger.

Those are mostly correct. The amp levels are right for the Model 3 versions. Very recently, though, like mid December sometime, Tesla stopped offering the 72A charger entirely, and the whole line of Model S and X only get the 48A charger. But now, they are stopping offering the 75kWh versions anyway, so who knows how things may shift?

I noticed that Tesla provides two second generation mobile connectors:

1. A ($300) Model S/X/3 Gen 2 Mobile Connector Bundle with a max output of 32 amps when using the 14-50 adapter,
which is included with the Model S/X/3.

2. A ($500) Model S/X Corded Mobile Connector with 240 volt 50 amp rated plug (with a max output of 40 amps ?),
which can be ordered online.

Those aren't two versions of the second generation mobile connector. The reason the corded mobile connector is 40A is that it IS a first generation UMC cable, but it just doesn't have swappable adapters. It was available along with the first generation UMC for a long time before they ever came out with the second generation one that was limited to the lower 32A level. And yes, it's usable on the Model 3 as well--several people have confirmed it, so it's a decent way to really be able to get 40A if you know you really do have an outlet on a 50A circuit.

 

[NeverFollow]

Those are mostly correct. The amp levels are right for the Model 3 versions.
Very recently, though, like mid December sometime, Tesla stopped offering the 72A charger entirely,
and the whole line of Model S and X only get the 48A charger.
But now, they are stopping offering the 75kWh versions anyway, so who knows how things may shift?

Thank you for the update. What bother me is that I cannot find any specification for on board charger on Tesla.com.

But may be I'm wrong? I would be happy then to find a web page or any documentation.

Extract from the WALL CONNECTOR, 8OA SINGLE PHASE INSTALLATION MANUAL (page 12)

The Wall Connector has an internal rotary switch that allows you to adjust its operating current
(refer to Set the Operating Current on page 21).
The circuit breaker should be rated for the continuous current of:
12, 16, 20, 24, 28, 32, 36, 40, 48, 56, 64, 72, or 80A.​

- So what the point to have an 80 A Wall Connector if the maximum on board charger is 48 A.

Those aren't two versions of the second generation mobile connector.
The reason the corded mobile connector is 40A is that it IS a first generation UMC cable, but it just doesn't have swappable adapters.
It was available along with the first generation UMC for a long time before they ever came out with the second generation one
that was limited to the lower 32A level. And yes, it's usable on the Model 3 as well--several people have confirmed it,
so it's a decent way to really be able to get 40A if you know you really do have an outlet on a 50A circuit.

You are right, I should have noticed it from the circle bag with fish net used by the first generation UMC cable.