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Conversion Tesla Adapter to Mennekes socket

Discussion in 'Europe' started by Eberhard, Mar 2, 2011.

  1. dpeilow

    dpeilow Moderator

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    Nice, the 32A versions sounds very useful - but breaks the IEC standards. Get one while you can...


    But RWE got those cables from somewhere. Probably as part of the deal when they bought the cars. I don't know why Tesla just can't sell it. Sure they'd need to be CE rated and all that, but the market that wants them is a few hundred people now easily.
     
  2. Kevin Sharpe

    Kevin Sharpe Active Member

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    or even make the parts available so a third party can undertake the approvals process... this is a high value niche market so while of little interest to Tesla would be of value to a mom and pop shop...
     
  3. Eberhard

    Eberhard #421 Model S #S32

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    as i understand, that mennekes is compatibel to MOD 2 protocol. There is a wide range of adapters from Tesla available for different american sockets. Here, they only have to take the signal from the mennekes socket. Am i right?
     
  4. dpeilow

    dpeilow Moderator

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    Well, true. But they CE approved the UMC so I don't see this as any different in terms of volumes.

    Maybe we could set up a group buy for the Mennekes to 60309 adapters?
     
  5. widodh

    widodh Model S R231 EU

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    #25 widodh, Mar 18, 2011
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2011
    Both come with a 4M cable, the price:

    - 16A: EUR 244,00 ( 36005: Mennekes 4meter laadkabel 20A 1-fase mode 3 (L1,N,RA,CP,PP) EV-laadstekker (Type 2) - open eind )
    - 32A: EUR 335,00 ( 36008: Mennekes 4meter laadkabel 32A 3-fase mode 3 (L1,L2,L3,N,RA,CP,PP) EV-laadstekker (Type 2) - open eind )

    The 16A cable is actually a 20A cable, but the resistor limits it to 16A. At the end there is no connector, so you can place any CEE connector on it what you like.

    The Mennekes connector is also not freely available, they don't want people hobby'ing around with large currents.

    They (EV-Box) told me that they were planning to cut open a Mobile connector from Tesla and wire the mennekes directly to the Tesla connector. If that works, you could buy an extra Mobile connector and do some soldering :)
     
  6. dpeilow

    dpeilow Moderator

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    So as not to drag this off topic, I've started a group buy thread here.
     
  7. EV_de

    EV_de Model SP10/XP9 EU ZOE#47

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    FYI - if you mount a CEE red/blue on the other end of the Menneks Plug, there is no "communication" with the car !

    without the "PP" PlugPresent Signal the Menneks Station does't Power on ! ... if you "bridge" the PP - Signal , Menneks will
    provide max. 16 A (in Europe) even with an 32A Cabel ... cause Mode 3 communication is missing .....
     
  8. widodh

    widodh Model S R231 EU

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    They told me there is a resistor in the 32A cable which fakes the signal to the station, so it provides 32A.
     
  9. EV_de

    EV_de Model SP10/XP9 EU ZOE#47

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    no, the resistor "tells" the Station only that the cable you pluged in can handle max. up to 16A / 32A / 63A aso...
     
  10. dpeilow

    dpeilow Moderator

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    ^ what he said.

    But also a second resistor (and a diode) is the car present / start charging signal, so that fakes the presence of a 'car' to the EVSE. It then starts supplying current up to the limit of that station. The resistor value also tells the EVSE whether ventilation is required.

    Normally, an oscillator in the EVSE signals the maximum current the car can take from it. The car would then adjust itself to take that amount only. In this case that oscillator will be ignored if there is a CEE socket on the other end of the lead. However, Tesla's UMC will generate another copy of that oscillating signal and send it into the car. The UMC generates a signal that is appropriate for the pigtail on it. In this case, of course, it will be a 32A pigtail.

    So this should work - but it's up to the user to know not to overload the EVSE.
     
  11. EV_de

    EV_de Model SP10/XP9 EU ZOE#47

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    the Mennekes Charging Station is waiting for the PP Signal to Power ON,
    therefor you need a bridge from the PP Signal Pin over the "max cable load" resistor to Ground Pin,
    because on the other end is a CEE or Tesla Connector .

    according the J1772 standard , the Station is now on Power (tran1 Mode) open CP signal -> switch to mode A1 - 16A max load.

    if you force the Tesla's UMC to 32 A , it will trip the fuse....

    without the UMC it should work , if you connect the CP- Signal ....up to 63 A if you have the right cable on resistor in it...

    ..
    ..
     
  12. jkirkebo

    jkirkebo Model S P85+ VIN 14420 EU

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    Hmm. Why not cut the Tesla connector of the UMC and mate it directly to the Mennekes plug/cable ? Then you'd only have to use the cable to charge from Mennekes. To still use the UMC, get a female Mennekes connector with some cable and connect that to the UMC instead. Then if you need to use the UMC, connect the Mennekes-Tesla cable to the UMC and you have the original functionality.
     
  13. dpeilow

    dpeilow Moderator

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    No, the station will then start its oscillator to say "you can take X amps from me". Which will be ignored because there's just a dumb CEE socket on the end. It shouldn't trip the fuse (unless you try to pull more than 32A).
     
  14. widodh

    widodh Model S R231 EU

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    Yes, that should be possible. But I don't think people want to start cutting open their UMC cable.

    The problem is also, the Mennekes connectors are not freely available, you can even forget getting a Mennekes connector with screw connections like a CEE has. So you would have to start soldering wires together.

    I'll give EV-Box another call on monday to clarify if it works with the UMC 32A.
     
  15. EV_de

    EV_de Model SP10/XP9 EU ZOE#47

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    #35 EV_de, Mar 18, 2011
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2011
    ... with UMC no, cause the CP Signal on the Mennekes side is missing,
    ... without the UMC and on one end the Menneks (with PP Signal bridged) and on the other side the Tesla conector it should
    be possible up to [email protected]
    .
    . we should find someone to proof it ....
    .
    ... 32A with UMC could be possible on the RWE Station and maybe on the EV-Box Station, cause they not fully comply
    to SAE (J) 1772 ... there is only one Relais inside therefor is Full Power or nothing ....
     
  16. widodh

    widodh Model S R231 EU

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    EV-Box read the thread and sent me an e-mail this night (at 0:48!), they say that with the right resistors the station will be "faked" if there is a car attached and will start supplying 16A or 32A, what ever resistor there is build in the connector.
     
  17. dpeilow

    dpeilow Moderator

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    Do they supply the 63A version by any chance?
     
  18. widodh

    widodh Model S R231 EU

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    #38 widodh, Mar 19, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 13, 2016
    I think they do, but I didn't ask for it. He said he'd call me on monday, so I'll ask about the 63A. Have you seen 63A charging stations "in the wild?".

    The "heaviest" I know for now are the RWE Stations with 3x63A which is split into 2x 3x32A for two vehicles.

    After browsing through the EV-Box website I found this Youtube video:



    Go to 1:27, is that a Tesla Roadster? I think so? (Not a modified Elise) That one seem to be fully converted to a Mennekes connector! I got to get in touch with that owner, see how he did it!
     
  19. dpeilow

    dpeilow Moderator

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    I've heard that some parts of the UK might see 63A in the not too distant future, so planning ahead.

    We could use the 63A cable to feed the UMC directly via its 'California Connector' so that it can take 40A or 48A or whatever the max is on the UMC.

    The other (better) alternative would be to buy a 75A J1772 plug from ITT Cannon to put on the end of the cable (to make Mennekes <> J1772). Then we could use the new Tesla J1772 adapter to feed the car. This would also have the benefit of being able to feed other J1772 cars.
     
  20. widodh

    widodh Model S R231 EU

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    I get the point of planning ahead, but was just wondering about the 63A charging stations, would love to see those! If they come online in the UK, that would be great, road trips trough the UK just got better :)

    A J1772 connector in the Roadster would be nice too, I already start to hate the UMC after 2 days, what a big and lumpy thing to carry around. We won't see 3-phase charging on the Roadster in the near future, but still (See the video above), a Mennekes connector on the Roadster would be more "European" as you can use simple from the shelf cables.
     

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