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Converted Audi A2 goes 605 km (378mi) without charging

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http://news.xinhuanet.com/english2010/photo/2010-10/27/c_13576958.htm
13576958_11n.jpg



http://www.autogazette.de/Im-Schatten-der-Lithium-Ionen-Batterie/artikel_1533739_29_2.htm
137882.jpg


http://www.emobilitaet-nrw.de/akkutechnik.html

http://www.transaktuell.de/nachrichten/datum/2010/03/11/fortschritt-in-der-batterietechnik.html
 
TTAC says they say it was built in six weeks. That does push it to the fake side.

If real, would Martin have a part in it? or:

WWMD?

6 weeks seems to be the exact time Tesla spent on the EVs for Daimler, but Tesla does have some experience (first Lotus Elise mule took 6 months):
For example, the team put together a refined Smart ED in just six weeks. The electric Mercedes A-Class only took six weeks to make. "By the time we got to a more recent project, it was only a four-week effort. And we've done vehicles even faster than that," West said.
http://blogs.edmunds.com/greencarad...-reporters-unveils-model-ss-flat-battery.html
 
Seems this car uses lithium metal polymer batteries, same as the Bollore/Pininfarina BlueCar.
BlueCar Pack specs:
http://www.bluecar.fr/en/pages-innovation/batterie-lmp.aspx
BlueCar Cell specs:
http://www.greencarcongress.com/2005/03/bolloreacute_gr.html

These batteries had lower cycle life (even less than the low 500 cycles provided by commodity cells) and safety problems (lithium metal is very volatile) compared to batteries using carbon anodes which is why most manufacturers avoided them, but this may have changed in recent years. I wonder if they have solved these problems yet. Lithium metal batteries also didn't particularly good specific energy either.
 
I'll happily admit I have no clue when it comes to battery technology, so I'll just copy and paste and let the brighter minds here judge the value of this information.

Charging in 6 min? I'm starting to wonder if the car was on a flat bed for most of the trip...

116 miles in an electric vehicle? No problem. But you'll quite literally be pushing your new Nissan Leaf another 250 miles to achieve what's being hailed as a world record in Germany. Little Lekker Mobil, a four-seat Audi A2 refitted with an experimental electric powerplant as part of a government sponsored project with Germany's lekker Energie and DBM Energy, just completed a 372-mile (600-km) stretch of road between Munich and Berlin on a single charge, a journey that lasted around seven hours. Even with the heater running, the modified A2 with fully usable trunk arrived with spare electricity in the "tank." The battery uses DBM Energy's KOLIBRI AlphaPolymer Technology said to be 97 percent efficient and chargeable from virtually any socket -- plug it into a high voltage DC source and it can be fully charged in just six minutes according to the car's driver and battery inventor, Mirko Hannemann. While Hannemann wouldn't be pinned down on pricing for the battery, the 27 year old did say that it would be more powerful and cheaper than conventional lithium ion batteries. He even went so far as to suggest that his company was ready to begin mass production of the batteries now -- presumably aided by the large sacks of money he'll be handed after pulling off the record breaking stunt.

http://i.engadget.com/2010/10/27/dbm-energys-electric-audi-a2-completes-record-setting-372-mile/
 
It isn't (2,400 lbs) ... Which is the impressive part of this supposedly "new" technology they are "celebrating". Very little technical details published at this point from what I can find.

About 300 Kg for the battery were mentioned. This is not improbable, as they apparently had no thermal management. Speeds were mostly between 80 and 90 km/h. Whether that battery would survive in Arizona and Norway as used here is another matter.
Alfred

Technische Daten Audi A2 von DBM*
* mit Vorbehalt
Source: wattgehtab.com
Leergewicht (incl. Fahrer) 1260 kg
Zul. Gesamtgewicht 1600 kg
Batterie Lithium-Eisen-Polymer (260 Ah/380 V) Zellspannung 3,8 Volt
Batteriegewicht ca. 300 kg
Ladezeit*netzbedingt ca. 4 Stunden bei Drehstrom im Haushalt (380V)
batteriebedingt*6 Minuten (Zukunftslösung)
Ladezyklen*Lebenszeit 2500 (ohne Kapazitätsverlust)
= Lebensdauer erreichbares Ziel: 500000 Kilometer
Höchstgeschwindigkeit 160 km/h
Getriebe sequentiell 5-Gang (Renngetriebe: Schalten ohne zu kuppeln)
E-Motor 300 Nm Drehmoment
 
Nissan Leaf pack weighs about the same, and has about 25kWh, and no thermal management.
So, if those specs are true, it has more than 3x the energy density of the Leaf pack. That seems impressive.

It would also be more than double anything on this chart:

Energy-density-comparison.jpg
 
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So, if the pack weighs 300 kg and hold between 100 to 115 kWh, the specific gravity is between 333 wh/kg and 383 wh/kg, no?
Technical Data Audi A2 DBM *
* Subject
Source: wattgehtab.com
Empty weight (including driver) 1260 kg
Perm. Total weight 1600 kg
Battery lithium-metal-polymer (260 Ah/380 V) cell voltage of 3.8 volts
Battery weight about 300 kg
* Charging time about 4 hours due to mains phase current in the household (380V)
battery-conditioned * 6 minutes (future solution)
Charge cycles * Lifetime 2500 (without loss of capacity)
= Service life target: 500,000 km
Top speed 160 km / h
5-speed sequential gearbox (race gear: shifting without the clutch)
E-motor 300 Nm torque

Put it through google translate.
Battery is 380V * 260Ah = 93.6kWh
At 300kg, that is 312Wh/kg, which is still very impressive even if cell only.

However they did say it is "about 300kg" so this may be an underestimate (and it is unclear if it is the pack weight or cell weight).

Given the cells are 3.8V, you can probably find the cell specs online if they have a website (I'll try if I have time).
 
If these stats are close to what is stated this could be somewhat of a game changer.
Perhaps not a complete paradigm shift but enough to give thought to those with battery packs currently in design. Found the following quite interesting:

He even went so far as to suggest that his company was ready to begin mass production of the batteries now
 
I guess they had problems during development:

http://solar-driver.dasreiseprojekt.de/hauptbericht.php?ok=15&uk=62&uuk=0&uuuk=0&id=3444
Am Dienstagmorgen, dem 01.06.2010 kam es um ca. 06.00 Uhr in der Halle B auf dem Gelände der Firma PAP STAR zu einer starken Rauchentwicklung aufgrund defekter Akkus. In den neuartigen Batterien für Gabelstapler war es zu einer chemischen Reaktion gekommen, wobei sich die Akkus zersetzten und säurehaltige Gase freigesetzt wurden. Acht Personen wurden wegen Verdacht auf Rauchvergiftung ärztlich behandelt, sie wurden jedoch nur leicht verletzt.
{translated} On Tuesday morning, 06/01/2010 it came to about 06.00 clock in Hall B on the premises of PAP STAR to a heavy smoke caused by defective batteries. In the advanced batteries for forklift trucks there had been a chemical reaction and decompose the batteries and acid gases were released. Eight people were medically treated for suspected smoke inhalation, but were only slightly injured.
 
i actually wanted to post this in this thread
http://www.teslamotors.com/forum/forums/tsla-whats-it-worth-why-6mo-post-lockup?page=1
but it seems that i cant login there anymore.

anyway, the 626Km world record battery car of the company DBM: it burned down last year, and there have been speculations if it all was a hoax. There hasn’t been any statement for weeks from a DBM representative and they also refused to let their battery tested by independent surveyors. Furthermore the inventor Mirko Hannemann seems to have maintained an extremely low profile the last months. He also made the rather incredible assertion that Samsung had offered him 600mio for his battery technology.
Normally I would clearly assume that the whole venture was a hoax but the hummingbird-batteries already are in daily use in fork lifter in the storage of the carton processing company Papstar since last September. And today the it and logistic chief of Papstar reported to the news website clean energy that Papstar is highly satisfied with the battery. The energy consumption would be significantly lower which would amortize the higher buying price soon. They have now ordered ten new ones.
http://www.cleanthinking.de/kolibiri-akku-praxiseinsatz-papstar-dbm-technologie/8407/
He says that the batteries provided by DBM would have a capacity of 240AH and would weight 100KG. Plus the battery never would produce heat.
On one of the sponsor website lekker strom you can find the data of the battery used during the record drive:
http://www.lekker-mobil.com/images/stories/pdf/technische-Daten-Audi-A2.pdf
according to this site the battery weight 350KG and provides 98.8KWh. The lifespan is 2000 charging cycles.
I have the impression that this is actually real. DBM provided batteries for the German government and the civil protection organization THW and it has the 3M company as partner.
It seems to me that Hannemann really is a 27 year old genius who knows that he invented the next big thing but doesn’t want to sacrifice his baby for a check and therefore only delivers to customers he can trust. But like I said before: IF DBM agrees with any big car producer to supply their batteries this could really be the deathblow for any EV which is currently announced. Including the Model S.
Frankly I would love hear what Tesla thinks about DBM or the lithium-metal-polymer technology….
 
wow this is really interesting. I hope companies like Tesla and others look at this seriously. If indeed true then most of the EV problems are really out the door....... impressive.

time will tell. lets see what comes of the ADAC tests in End of Feb.

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