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Converting an ICE to an EV

Discussion in 'Electric Conversions' started by ThosEM, Nov 27, 2017.

  1. smac

    smac Active Member

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    The i8 is now available in convertible. Downside is it's not full EV, though there are persistent rumours BMW are working on a full BEV version for the next gen i8.

    As great as the specs are on the next Roadster, it's too much car for me. If BMW did release a full BEV i8 it would sit nicely in the 911 price/performance bracket that Tesla seem to have skipped.

    There's likely space in the market for both. (And why I'm disappointed Tesla aren't doing a 75kWh, slower, version of the Roadster).
     
  2. daniel

    daniel Active Member

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    Does 0-60 in 9.4 seconds, and they don't say what it cost to build. They also don't say how much continual maintenance/repair it needs. The DIY EV conversions tended to be "project" cars: You were constantly working on them to keep them going, which is fine if you can do the work yourself and enjoy doing that. I want a car with the reliability and performance of a Tesla.

    This can be a fun hobby if that's what you enjoy.
     
    • Like x 3
  3. smac

    smac Active Member

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    @daniel I agree DIY, or specialist shop conversions, are likely to be project cars.

    One project that has caught my eye is the Electric Evora.

    This Cool Electric Lotus Evora Project Is How Sports Cars Could Look In 10 Years

    I think we may be at the cusp of people being able to get hold of "automotive grade" parts from wrecked cars that simply weren't available even 3 years ago. Will certainly open up some possibilities. (Though still definitely in the same niche as people who do engine swaps)
     
  4. dhrivnak

    dhrivnak Active Member

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    I can likely do it but the cost would be about $35k and have an 80 mile range. So considering the cost of the doner you are likely better off with a Tesla Model 3. I have converted a Jeep and Miata to Electric and a Chevy Avalanche into a plugin Hybrid. See www.hrivnak.com
     
  5. ThosEM

    ThosEM Space Weatherman

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    An i8 Spyder will be more expensive as a BEV, and it's already too rich (and too big) for me and certainly a lot more expensive than a conversion. Also, for my money scissors doors are the height of cost-ineffectiveness. So I'll stick with my hardtop convertible BMW and hope that a workable conversion can be fit in my budget at some point. It will be a daily commuter for a while, but eventually will only need to be a recreational vehicle (another reason to keep it cheap), so new car levels of reliability are not critically important to me for this car.

    It depresses me to think that the EV revolution will have to wait at least a decade for all the existing ICE vehicles to bite the dust. But then, I have to admit that not many existing cars would be worth the conversion.
     
  6. daniel

    daniel Active Member

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    While you could do a conversion cheaper than you could buy an i8 Spyder, it won't have the performance, unless it's a custom drag racer like the White Zombie. Comparing price to price or performance to performance, a conversion will never match an electric car you can buy from a car maker. A conversion that's cheaper than a Nissan Leaf will not match even the performance of the leaf, and a performance conversion that outperforms a Tesla will cost far more than the Tesla.

    Note also that with the durability of today's stinkers, generally by the time the engine is shot and the chassis is available cheap, the chassis is also worn out. And the conversion is likely to lose safety features like skid control that are integrated into the engine's computer. Really, the only reason to do a conversion today is if you enjoy tinkering with cars, and your reason for doing it is the project, and not the finished result.

    Home DIY conversion shops led the way. The Nissan Leaf made them obsolete and Tesla put the nail in the coffin.
     
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  7. ThosEM

    ThosEM Space Weatherman

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    #27 ThosEM, Dec 15, 2017
    Last edited: Dec 15, 2017
    You don't have to wear out the engine to do an EV conversion; you just sell it to someone who needs a good one. In my case I have a host car in perfect condition with a refreshed suspension, and I own it free and clear.

    Disagree, though of course I recognize that one gets what one pays for. But the new roadster is clearly designed to compete with exotics like Ferrari, Lamborghini, McLaren, Audi R8, Porsche 911 Turbo, etc. that are beyond the means of all but a very tiny minority. Where does that leave the rest of us that just want an affordable fun commuter/weekend car? I'm thinking of the Miata/Fiata, Z3-4, EOS Cabriolet, CLK, set here. I see nothing whatsoever coming along those lines for BEV drivers. That may be a relatively small niche market as well, but:

    I think that successful businesses organized around doing a truly professional job of converting ICE vehicles to BEV seem plausible. I gather this takes about 200 hours of labor (a long work month) per vehicle on a custom basis, which should drop with some specialization to particular vehicle types. With battery prices dropping, and BMS getting more refined all the time, the total cost would be less than Model 3 pricing. Certainly if one wanted a sport sedan, it could make more sense to buy a Model 3 than to convert a BMW 3 series, but if you want a BMW coupe, or an Estate wagon, or a convertible, or a crossover SUV, it could well make sense to go with a conversion. It may be a long time before Tesla can compete with BMW or US makers on model diversity.
     
  8. daniel

    daniel Active Member

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    That does put you a step ahead. Most people would have to buy the rolling chassis or host car, and the better its condition the greater the cost. A Miata in good condition would set a person back a good bit.

    Old Tesla Roadster, used. You'll get a much better car for less than you could make a similar one.

    I'll grant you this: If you want a BEV with a 40-mile range that does zero to sixty mph in 15 or 20 seconds, and you happen to own a suitable donor car, and if you find a truly reliable conversion shop (and I learned to my great cost that not all such shops are reliable*) or you can do the work yourself, you can probably do it for less than the cost of a 245-mile, 0-60 in 4 seconds Old Roadster.

    * Buyer beware: There are shops out there that appear reliable and put up a really good front, but that are not competent and will return your car to you essentially ruined.

    As for there being a profitable market niche for a reliable, competent shop, employing competent mechanics and paying them mechanics wages and using quality parts, I believe the market is just not there. Even with the limited availability of models (Used Roadster, new or used Model S, Model X, Model 3, Bolt, Volt, and a few low-volume offerings from other companies) the vast majority of potential EV buyers will find one of these more desirable than a conversion of uncertain quality and questionable reliability. A conversion car will always be a project car: If you love tinkering with cars, this could be a fun and enjoyable hobby. But if what you want is a car you can drive whenever you want, even a car from GM will be more reliable.

    The New Roadster is a hypercar for the uber-rich to give Tesla bragging rights. Conversion cars are for hobbyists.
     
    • Like x 1
  9. Colasec

    Colasec Member

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    ... what is a Fiata?... I haven't heard of this autox rockstar. :p
     
  10. ThosEM

    ThosEM Space Weatherman

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    It's a Fiat 124 Spider, revived for the past year or two, built with Mazda on a Miata chassis with an Italian engine, starts about $25k.
    Fiat 124 Spider - Car and Driver
     
  11. ThosEM

    ThosEM Space Weatherman

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    Thanks to the moderator for splitting this off as an EV Conversion thread. Makes great sense and I'd love to see it continue as I wrangle with the idea of doing an ICE conversion to get the car I want before Tesla can ever get around to it. I'm intrigued by the idea that part of the electric revolution could be done by conversion rather than by complete replacement of the fleet of cars that currently exists.

    Daniel has clearly been burned by an EV conversion shop that ruined his car, and I sympathize, but also think he's being overly pessimistic about what it possible. The E Type Zero was likely quite expensive, being a one-off based on a classic car with the stipulation that it could not interfere with restoration to original. But it's performance specs were excellent and quite satisfactory to me. The battery pack came from Rimac, so I wrote to them about doing more such packs designed to drop onto engine mounts in place of an original ICE. They are too busy building other cars to do that, which tells me Jaguar paid them quite a premium to get their attention.

    Daniel's reservations do make me leery of the entire business. Some of the shops that do conversions definitely have the appearance of hobby shops that are not well organized or disciplined. The choices are very limited on the East Coast, and I wonder if anyone has had a good experience besides that one I pointed to: Conversion – BMW Z3 | Electric Vehicle Association of Greater Washington, DC
     
  12. NeverFollow

    NeverFollow Active Member

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    I wonder what kind of validation you need for getting a DMV license?
    Otherwise you will still need to pass the Smog check every two year...
    Also does your car insurance will be still valid?
     
  13. ThosEM

    ThosEM Space Weatherman

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    Update: I haven’t retired yet, my Model 3 reservation came up, and my daughter for whom the reservation was made has moved on to a new home, SUV, and now a baby, so I had the option for myself, and took it, I do wish it was a convertible but a glass roof is the next best thing, and the car is wonderful and way sharper in every way than a gas powered BMW 3 series... So no regrets. Maybe I’ll do a retrofit after I retire?
     
  14. idoco

    idoco Member

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    Did a conversion on my own as my first EV. About the same time the first Roadsters were coming out. Was originally going to do a BMW 3 but ended up doing a small SUV instead. Took about six months in spare time.

    If you have changed an oil filter, changed a tire, installed an electrical outlet/switch/breaker in your house, and done any carpentry with power tools you probably have the basic skill set. You just need to do some background reading and planning.

    Here is a list of BMW conversions: EVAlbum: Search Results

    Here is a site that has lot of good info on how to DIY: DIY Electric Car Forums Site Home
     
    • Like x 1
  15. daniel

    daniel Active Member

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    I did not have much difficulty registering the (disastrous) conversion car. A bit more than a regular car, but not much. I had to show it to the folks at the DMV and fill out some extra paperwork. And I had no trouble getting it insured. Registration and insurance were the only things that went well with the project. In the end I was able to sell the chassis to a car enthusiast who I believe intended to restore it back to ICE. I was never able to sell the EV components, which are still sitting in storage. By the time I finally had the completed car (long, long after it had been originally promised, just barely functioning, and a death trap ready to fall apart) the Nissan Leaf had come out and the bottom had dropped out of the market for EV components.

    I had the opportunity to sell it to someone who wanted to complete the conversion project, for twice what I got for the chassis, but I refused to sell it to him because I honestly believed (and still do) that it would have been a total loss for him, and he could not reasonably afford it, which would have been a financial hardship for his family, and I didn't want his wife to hate me. She already opposed his DIY EV hobby.

    Congrats on your new Tesla Model 3. I'm expecting mine soon. I'd have been able to pick it up this week, but not wanting to drive it nearly 400 miles over the mountains in winter, I'm having it shipped, and I don't have a date for that yet.
     
  16. Michael Falcon

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    I decided to write in this topic rather to create a new one, so dear members. could someone tel me is there an alternative beside HSR to buy motors\controlers?, I think that for my needs it would be more than enought 2 teslas small drive untits (-250kw each) on each axle. I'm just at the starting point, and only choosing between some cars. It's gonna be a BMW 7 E38. It's 1,7 Tons so i think that 500hp will be probably ok.
     
  17. idoco

    idoco Member

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  18. Michael Falcon

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    Too big, and poor power output or I didn't get it?, 34hp? I need at least 250hp per axle and I want independent motors to switch 2wd/4wd
     
  19. idoco

    idoco Member

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  20. Michael Falcon

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    but....like....maybe yeah, but c'mon i expect in the end with all stuf in it i get around 2,2 tons(almost 5000 lbs) and youre considering a warp 9 with 34hp\140nm? and only rwd? i planed to swith to EV cause i wanted more power, and i'm still thinking how to get a 1000hp and 1500nm figure
     

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