Canuck
Well-Known Member
Which begs the question... then why the long post in the first place? You just like to bark -- like a dog?
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Convincing a skeptic
- Thread starter Barklikeadog
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- Tesla Inc.
Which begs the question... then why the long post in the first place? You just like to bark -- like a dog?
Sure.
Tesla has a history of taking safety issues seriously. But there was no fault on Teslas side when it came to the fatal accident where the autopilot was enabled. The driver of a semi broke the law by failing to yield, and then the Tesla driver and the autopilot failed to prevent the accident, resulting in an accident. The fault lies with the driver of the semi. Of course, it would have been great if the autopilot had managed to prevent the accident. Every life saved matters. (The capability of the autopilot to avoid accidents is something we can expect will improve over time, as the SW is improved and new sensors are added.)
Now, when it comes to the use of the statistics, I agree it's misleading. Tesla sucks at communication sometimes.
Than you for your reply. I agree that the semi driver is at fault 100%. Along with the summon case, the concerns are about the limitations. I believe I read somewhere that Google's auto driving can handle 80% of driving tasks just fine, but the 20% which is left is by far the hardest 20%.
I do a lot of research before making an important purchase. And this purchase would be a few years out. With all of the press and potential future success, i wanted to talk to current drivers now.
aesculus
Still Trying to Figure This All Out
I suspect by the time that is answered, you won't have to break away. All the car manufacturers that still exist will have moved to a new model, one that most of us here think will look a lot like Tesla's model today. And on top of that we will all be a part of that transition for you, so you won't have to put in any sweat equity.
True colors? My wife was home alone with an 8wk old and 2yr old. Is she supposed to carry the firewood in? Is one fireplace going to keep a 4000sq ft house warm enough for an 8 week old infant? Is she supposed to warm the milk up over a fire? Maybe the infant just needs to toughen up, I don't know. By the way, I also said if Tesla made a battery powered truck with the capabilities of a current truck, I'd buy one. I called the current truck a polluter.Right, because we believe our cars run on fairy dust....Mine runs mostly on river water.
It's nice to see your true colours, though, rather than the front you tried to play us with in your first post.
If you really are interested, and not just here to tell us how much better a gas powered vehicle is to save the lives of your wife and child, which is maybe just a little bit over dramatic? 5 F = -15C - that's a common low temperature at my cabin in the mountains where it often dips to -22F or -30C, and the power going out is also not uncommon, in fact closing the roads because of avalanches is not uncommon. But we don't get all worked up about it as if it's a life and death thing -- we have lots of wood for the fire and a generator - much more comfortable that your truck to the hotel or wherever -- as if she couldn't drive a Tesla there. Anyways, I digress, you might want to take some time to learn something,,,
http://www.ucsusa.org/sites/default...ctric-car-global-warming-emissions-report.pdf
I don't see the point of attacking a situation that happened to my wife and children.
SmartElectric
Active Member
I clearly spent my money on a two cars that runs on fairy dust eh?! Here in Ontario, I subscribe to BullFrog Power, a company on a mission to drive additional renewable electricity on the Ontario grid. I do this even though the Ontario grid is the envy of most given our low CO2 because I have decided that climate change is a better thing to put my money towards.
When I need to haul something, I rent a truck. Owning a vehicle to drive it a few times a year is not my idea of spending money on better things. Each their own.
As you've seen here, we encourage you to drive the Tesla and see if you find the experience compelling. Go from there. Frankly, any EV, for example, my little Smart Electric may be small, but is so much fun to drive, it convinced my wife that EV's were just superior to gas cars, so she felt comfortable trading in her gas SUV for a Tesla.
My compliments to the thoughtful replies (not mine, I clearly added a few digs in above) upthread, very impressed with the ability to disconnect from OP obvious bias and instead of bashing, provide excellent information.
SmartElectric
Active Member
Easy now. We all love our families, and that is one of the key reasons many of us bought a Tesla, safety was (and is) a key consideration when my wife bought her Tesla. My wife routinely takes long trips with the kids in the car without me and has complete confidence to do so. She is a no compromise person when it comes to safety, if she had any concerns, the car would be traded away.
I wish that would happen sooner. Ford is facing difficult times with their MPG. Trucks are big, plenty of room for batteries. I see battery trucks out there... but they are excessively expensive. I want this in the worst way. Then lets jump to Hydrogen.
Canuck
Well-Known Member
Calm down. No one attacked your wife and children. Re-read my post. I said she could have driven out in a Tesla and I'm quite certain an AWD Tesla with snow tires would have got her and your children out just fine. I'm also certain it has a higher safety rating than your truck. I just offered the fireplace and generator as an example of what we do when the power goes out during winter for extended periods of time.
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So you minimize the importance of EVs because there will be something better at some distant point in the future? That makes no sense to me. There is always a "next step", and it is always preceded by the previous step. So you are going to skip owning an EV and wait for the "next step" but you don't know what it is or when it will arrive. And while you are waiting you are driving a vehicle that poisons people directly and poisons the atmosphere which poisons everyone. That is your plan?
If you think owning and driving a Tesla is a "significant sacrifice", you have no idea what you are talking about. Before you reach such a fact-challenged conclusion, take a test drive and experience the car. There is no "sacrifice". And using other people's behavior as an excuse to actively avoid doing something positive is a pathetic line of reasoning.
I am an atheist. There is no god. Elon Musk is indeed a brilliant guy, and like all of us he has his flaws and shortcomings. But he is making an enormous contribution to improving the probability of a good future for humanity.
Thank you for your reply. I did take some digs, but it was not meant to start a fight.
If I were looking to buy a VW I'd be asking questions or take shots about dieselgate. Same with exploding airbags, faulty ignition switches, etc. I see too many idealistic millenials in my work who think it is magic. They stay happily oblivious to the human and environmental damage that occurs to build their fancy tech gadgets.
Yes, you can opt out of sending telemetry data from your car to Tesla. Following is their policy from:
Privacy & Legal | Tesla
"Our collection of Tesla vehicle data. If you no longer wish us to collect Telematics Log Data or any other data from your Tesla vehicle, please contact us as indicated in the "How to Contact Us" section below. Please note that, if you opt out from the collection of Telematics Log Data or any other data from your Tesla vehicle, we will not be able to notify you of issues applicable to your vehicle in real time, and this may result in your vehicle suffering from reduced functionality, serious damage, or inoperability, and it may also disable many features of your vehicle including periodic software and firmware updates, remote services, and interactivity with mobile applications and in-car features such as location search, Internet radio, voice commands, and web browser functionality."
and
"Our collection of real-time traffic feature data. We only collect this data if the real-time traffic feature is available to you and you elect to use it. If you no longer wish us to collect or share data from your vehicle for this feature, you can stop this collection at any time by simply turning the feature and the data collection off via the "TRAFFIC-BASED ROUTING" setting in Controls > Settings > Apps > Maps & Navigation."
Privacy & Legal | Tesla
"Our collection of Tesla vehicle data. If you no longer wish us to collect Telematics Log Data or any other data from your Tesla vehicle, please contact us as indicated in the "How to Contact Us" section below. Please note that, if you opt out from the collection of Telematics Log Data or any other data from your Tesla vehicle, we will not be able to notify you of issues applicable to your vehicle in real time, and this may result in your vehicle suffering from reduced functionality, serious damage, or inoperability, and it may also disable many features of your vehicle including periodic software and firmware updates, remote services, and interactivity with mobile applications and in-car features such as location search, Internet radio, voice commands, and web browser functionality."
and
"Our collection of real-time traffic feature data. We only collect this data if the real-time traffic feature is available to you and you elect to use it. If you no longer wish us to collect or share data from your vehicle for this feature, you can stop this collection at any time by simply turning the feature and the data collection off via the "TRAFFIC-BASED ROUTING" setting in Controls > Settings > Apps > Maps & Navigation."
My driveway is about 100yds long, steep and had about 12inches of unplowed snow. Ive read on this forum in the past that a model S clearance for the front bumper is about 7inches.
Interesting post. Some thoughts:
For many active members here, Tesla and Elon Musk and renewable energy, etc. are filling a void in their lives. It's like a religion for them, and your doubts or questions draw out the anger. They truly believe the world will end tomorrow if we don't change our ways and embrace shared sacrifice. From my perspective, it's just human nature that many (most?) people need to comfort their psyche with some imagined meaning. It's too terrible to accept they aren't really changing the world or going to heaven when they die or whatever. Don't take them too seriously. It's really a great group of owners.
Like others have said: Go. Drive. The. Car.
It's a product that is unique enough and good enough (not to say perfect, but so well thought out), that people will put up with some teething pains and service delays and whatever, because it is worth it! Same with autopilot. Don't waste your keystrokes telling us what you think after reading this or watching that YouTube clip. Go try it.
My suggestion to you is don't try to live by some silly list of rules you gathered up like "I don't buy first-gen cars" or whatever. Those are lessons learned from a different paradigm. Tesla changed the world. You can enjoy it now, or sit on the sidelines another decade until you finally have a new rule on your list. "Don't watch neighbor drive fast cars with big grin everyday and get jealous"
By the way, nobody wants your secrets, so if you like the toys the new world has for you: smartphones, connected devices, the IOT, Teslas, etc. then accept it and grow up. It's 2016. You have no secrets. Deal.
For many active members here, Tesla and Elon Musk and renewable energy, etc. are filling a void in their lives. It's like a religion for them, and your doubts or questions draw out the anger. They truly believe the world will end tomorrow if we don't change our ways and embrace shared sacrifice. From my perspective, it's just human nature that many (most?) people need to comfort their psyche with some imagined meaning. It's too terrible to accept they aren't really changing the world or going to heaven when they die or whatever. Don't take them too seriously. It's really a great group of owners.
Like others have said: Go. Drive. The. Car.
It's a product that is unique enough and good enough (not to say perfect, but so well thought out), that people will put up with some teething pains and service delays and whatever, because it is worth it! Same with autopilot. Don't waste your keystrokes telling us what you think after reading this or watching that YouTube clip. Go try it.
My suggestion to you is don't try to live by some silly list of rules you gathered up like "I don't buy first-gen cars" or whatever. Those are lessons learned from a different paradigm. Tesla changed the world. You can enjoy it now, or sit on the sidelines another decade until you finally have a new rule on your list. "Don't watch neighbor drive fast cars with big grin everyday and get jealous"
By the way, nobody wants your secrets, so if you like the toys the new world has for you: smartphones, connected devices, the IOT, Teslas, etc. then accept it and grow up. It's 2016. You have no secrets. Deal.
3Victoria
Active Member
Hydrogen is a poor idea ... It requires power to obtain, power to compress, is difficult and dangerous to store, and is more complicated to use ... It is overall less efficient than using batteries. Also one loses the advantage of recharging at home. At this point the cars using it are strictly compliance cars ... Ie solely developed to comply with regulations, and not serious commercial projects.
I can think of better reasons for buying a Tesla than getting a grin on a test drive. I decided on the Tesla because it was the only electric car on the market that could serve as my only car. I've wanted an electric car since at least 2004 when I bought my first Prius as a stop-gap. Maybe the Tesla does run on electricity generated by a carbon-emitting power plant, but it still causes less carbon emissions than any gasoline-powered car.
I took the test drive just to make sure there wasn't some gotcha that I wouldn't like. Frankly, the test drive wasn't all that exciting. I ran with Autopilot on the whole time and dealt with the initial trust issues with it, and I was driving in an urban setting. It was all hectic and busy and I was trying to get the mirrors adjusted right.
I took the test drive just to make sure there wasn't some gotcha that I wouldn't like. Frankly, the test drive wasn't all that exciting. I ran with Autopilot on the whole time and dealt with the initial trust issues with it, and I was driving in an urban setting. It was all hectic and busy and I was trying to get the mirrors adjusted right.
That answers my question.... but what a terrible answer. serious damage? inoperability? Is this a result of system design or is this done by design so that nobody turns it off?
Canuck
Well-Known Member
Yes, plus the reasoning he uses is so obviously flawed. It's like saying to a smoker, who tells you not to smoke, that his advice is wrong because he smokes. The smoker is a hypocrite but he's not wrong and there's a big difference.
It's done to attempt to limit legal liability.
You leave your wife and children in a home with a steep driveway and 12" of snow without having someone come by to plow the driveway? I find that odd. I have a long steep driveway at my vacation home in the mountains, in the heart of prime BC snowmobile country, and if I'm not there to plow the driveway myself, I arrange for it to be done, especially if my wife and kids are there without me. The last thing I want is an ambulance not being able to make it to the door, should the need arise.
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Chopr147
Active Member
Yes the model S is very low to the ground. This winter will be my first with the S but I don't foresee any problems.
I have no doubt you are truly just asking some questions. Pay no mind to the sensitive, self-righteous Tesla folk here. Any mention of big gas-guzzling vehicles or coal burning seem to set off the little man in their narrow minds.
As others have mentioned, take a test drive and see if you can walk away w/o ordering one. Sounds like an X would be good for you.
God is good
At the risk of repeating what several others have already said, go test drive a Tesla. It really is different. It's a bit like having children in the sense that before you have children you think you know what it's going to be like, but once you have them you find there are many enjoyable dimensions to them that you didn't imagine, that you can't imagine. For me, I was waiting for the Model 3, but then I happened to test drive a Model S. I've always done my own maintenance on my cars (I'm an engineer), and after thinking about it for a couple of months I realized that all car companies are trying to solve problems of pollution, performance, maintenance costs, and so on--but only Tesla is trying to solve them the right way. ICEs have been a great solution for the past 100+ years, but we're getting to the end of the line of how much they can be improved. Musk & Tesla realized this and decided we shouldn't waste any more time on ICEs and should get to work on EVs which have much greater potential. (Hydrogen is not practical, but you can read about that elsewhere.) It's not that I think Musk is any sort of god (I'm an atheist), it's that Tesla is the only car company doing anything interesting in cars. Considering how Tesla is trying to change the world, it's amazing they haven't had more problems than they have.
An EV may not be for you. But I didn't want to put any more money into 20th century technology. After driving a Tesla, driving an ICE car feels like driving a tractor.
An EV may not be for you. But I didn't want to put any more money into 20th century technology. After driving a Tesla, driving an ICE car feels like driving a tractor.
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