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Convincing a skeptic

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There are lots of ways to do good. You could take the money it costs to buy a Tesla and sponsor an entire house built by Habitat for Humanity ($70,000 around here, YMMV). Or you could encourage safer cars like the Tesla and avert a million deaths a year from traffic accidents.

I've seen the glaciers that have retreated and I think that the only practical solution to climate change due to atmospheric pollution is with electric power because only with electric power can we mass distribute energy from alternative sources. If it weren't for all the trees, I'd be charging my car with solar power.

I recycle too.

I get a bigger grin giving back then from gong 0-60 real fast.
 
Interesting post. Some thoughts:

For many active members here, Tesla and Elon Musk and renewable energy, etc. are filling a void in their lives. It's like a religion for them, and your doubts or questions draw out the anger. They truly believe the world will end tomorrow if we don't change our ways and embrace shared sacrifice. From my perspective, it's just human nature that many (most?) people need to comfort their psyche with some imagined meaning. It's too terrible to accept they aren't really changing the world or going to heaven when they die or whatever. Don't take them too seriously. It's really a great group of owners.

Like others have said: Go. Drive. The. Car.
It's a product that is unique enough and good enough (not to say perfect, but so well thought out), that people will put up with some teething pains and service delays and whatever, because it is worth it! Same with autopilot. Don't waste your keystrokes telling us what you think after reading this or watching that YouTube clip. Go try it.

My suggestion to you is don't try to live by some silly list of rules you gathered up like "I don't buy first-gen cars" or whatever. Those are lessons learned from a different paradigm. Tesla changed the world. You can enjoy it now, or sit on the sidelines another decade until you finally have a new rule on your list. "Don't watch neighbor drive fast cars with big grin everyday and get jealous"

By the way, nobody wants your secrets, so if you like the toys the new world has for you: smartphones, connected devices, the IOT, Teslas, etc. then accept it and grow up. It's 2016. You have no secrets. Deal.

Awesome, thank you. A drive will happen down the road. hardy har, I see threads on this forum where people wait for months to get their car in the shop. That it sits in the service parking lot for weeks. But today I'm being reassured that this is not so bad. That seems like a big problem. Where is the truth?

as for 'tracking me', that is not what I'm paranoid about. What bothers me is how this info is just provided to the public after an accident, or how it can be used to blame the driver and save face. Even if the driver is at fault, give that info to authorities and the family, don't issue a press release. I just don't like that.
 
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Ad hominem attacks are among the lowest forms of argument. Certainly, you can do better than that?
I thought name calling
At the risk of repeating what several others have already said, go test drive a Tesla. It really is different. It's a bit like having children in the sense that before you have children you think you know what it's going to be like, but once you have them you find there are many enjoyable dimensions to them that you didn't imagine, that you can't imagine. For me, I was waiting for the Model 3, but then I happened to test drive a Model S. I've always done my own maintenance on my cars (I'm an engineer), and after thinking about it for a couple of months I realized that all car companies are trying to solve problems of pollution, performance, maintenance costs, and so on--but only Tesla is trying to solve them the right way. ICEs have been a great solution for the past 100+ years, but we're getting to the end of the line of how much they can be improved. Musk & Tesla realized this and decided we shouldn't waste any more time on ICEs and should get to work on EVs which have much greater potential. (Hydrogen is not practical, but you can read about that elsewhere.) It's not that I think Musk is any sort of god (I'm an atheist), it's that Tesla is the only car company doing anything interesting in cars. Considering how Tesla is trying to change the world, it's amazing they haven't had more problems than they have.

An EV may not be for you. But I didn't want to put any more money into 20th century technology. After driving a Tesla, driving an ICE car feels like driving a tractor.

Don't tell me that, I grew up using a 1950 International harvester to plow the drive and brushcut the back acreage. -nostalgia-
 
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That answers my question.... but what a terrible answer. serious damage? inoperability? Is this a result of system design or is this done by design so that nobody turns it off?
What they are saying is that turning off software updates can cause you not to get something that is important for safety. There was, if I recall correctly, an update to the charging software that programmed it to stop charging when a certain rare fault occurred, a fault that would have caused a fire if the charging were allowed to continue. So if you had turned off the firmware update feature, there is a small chance that your car would have caught fire, burned down your house and made the car inoperable.

I suppose you could have learned about the update and gone to the service center and had them install the update--eventually.
 
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.... I see threads on this forum where people wait for months to get their car in the shop. That it sits in the service parking lot for weeks. ...
You must realize that this is selection bias ... Not many people are going to report non-problems here ... How boring to the rest of us would that be?

Even if the driver is at fault, give that info to authorities and the family, don't issue a press release. I just don't like that.
Tesla has only released info when the driver has publicly made less than truthful statements, which hurt Tesla's reputation, and stock price. It is their fiduciary duty to protect the company's reputation.
 
Yes, plus the reasoning he uses is so obviously flawed. It's like saying to a smoker, who tells you not to smoke, that his advice is wrong because he smokes. The smoker is a hypocrite but he's not wrong and there's a big difference.




It's done to attempt to limit legal liability.



You leave your wife and children in a home with a steep driveway and 12" of snow without having someone come by to plow the driveway? I find that odd. I have a long steep driveway at my vacation home in the mountains, in the heart of prime BC snowmobile country, and if I'm not there to plow the driveway myself, I arrange for it to be done, especially if my wife and kids are there without me. The last thing I want is an ambulance not being able to make it to the door, should the need arise.

I do have someone to plow the drive, but in situations like that even he can get overwhelmed and not be available for a day or more. Even after the drive was cleared, we still didn't have power for 5 days. It was not viable to stay there.
 
You must realize that this is selection bias ... Not many people are going to report non-problems here ... How boring to the rest of us would that be?


Tesla has only released info when the driver has publicly made less than truthful statements, which hurt Tesla's reputation, and stock price. It is their fiduciary duty to protect the company's reputation.
Not true. This was just released today:
“We can confirm from the car’s logs that Autopilot was not engaged at any time during the drive cycle and that, consistent with the damage that was observed after the vehicle struck the tree, the vehicle was being driven at more than 155 km/h,” Tesla said Thursday in a prepared statement.
The driver didn’t survive. Tesla and Dutch authorities were investigating the incident Wednesday.
If they stopped at "confirm from the car’s logs that Autopilot was not engaged" I could understand it. But they added his speed which I think is unnecessary. The police are investigating and at the same time Tesla is releasing a statement with the vehicles speed?
 
I do have someone to plow the drive, but in situations like that even he can get overwhelmed and not be available for a day or more. Even after the drive was cleared, we still didn't have power for 5 days. It was not viable to stay there.

Then get the Model X and air suspension.

See this video for my wife driving up our very steep driveway (more than 100 ft) in snow in a rear wheel drive Model S (not AWD):
 
You must realize that this is selection bias ... Not many people are going to report non-problems here ... How boring to the rest of us would that be?


Tesla has only released info when the driver has publicly made less than truthful statements, which hurt Tesla's reputation, and stock price. It is their fiduciary duty to protect the company's reputation.
Yes the model S is very low to the ground. This winter will be my first with the S but I don't foresee any problems.
I have no doubt you are truly just asking some questions. Pay no mind to the sensitive, self-righteous Tesla folk here. Any mention of big gas-guzzling vehicles or coal burning seem to set off the little man in their narrow minds.
As others have mentioned, take a test drive and see if you can walk away w/o ordering one. Sounds like an X would be good for you.



God is good :)

What is the headroom like in it? I'm 6'4 and am able to stretch out more in a sedan to be comfortable. Crossover type SUVs my head is always touching the ceiling. I always seem to be sitting taller in those.
 
he driver didn’t survive. Tesla and Dutch authorities were investigating the incident Wednesday.
If they stopped at "confirm from the car’s logs that Autopilot was not engaged" I could understand it. But they added his speed which I think is unnecessary. The police are investigating and at the same time Tesla is releasing a statement with the vehicles speed?

So, commenting on what was not a possible contribution is okay, but not what was a probable contribution? The damage was significant, and if the media can plaster pictures all over the place...I think Tesla has a every right to explain what people are seeing.
 
Not true. This was just released today:
“We can confirm from the car’s logs that Autopilot was not engaged at any time during the drive cycle and that, consistent with the damage that was observed after the vehicle struck the tree, the vehicle was being driven at more than 155 km/h,” Tesla said Thursday in a prepared statement.
The driver didn’t survive. Tesla and Dutch authorities were investigating the incident Wednesday.
If they stopped at "confirm from the car’s logs that Autopilot was not engaged" I could understand it. But they added his speed which I think is unnecessary. The police are investigating and at the same time Tesla is releasing a statement with the vehicles speed?
That is what I'm talking about. Phone and internet companies do not hand over information, or worse, make it public, without a court order. So how is this ok?? I'm not a tinfoil hat conspiracy guy, but this sort of thing really bothers me.
 
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Awesome, thank you. A drive will happen down the road. hardy har, I see threads on this forum where people wait for months to get their car in the shop. That it sits in the service parking lot for weeks. But today I'm being reassured that this is not so bad. That seems like a big problem. Where is the truth?

as for 'tracking me', that is not what I'm paranoid about. What bothers me is how this info is just provided to the public after an accident, or how it can be used to blame the driver and save face. Even if the driver is at fault, give that info to authorities and the family, don't issue a press release. I just don't like that.

You do know that every car built since 1996 with an ODBII connector can provide the same data - your ICU can be subpoenaed by the courts in the event of an accident and provide the same data. Additionally I hope you don't own a cell phone, because Verizon, Google, your Credit Card company, your insurance company can also be subpoenaed to provide full pattern of life activities (locations, shopping habits, credit etc) to law enforcement or an employer in some cases (if you grant consent - example people with security clearances).


I personally hate that intrusion as well, but in the modern world you have no control over this data.

I am a lot like you, SuperCharged FJ with trailer for firewood to heat my 6000 SQFT home, Supercharged Miata, that gets driven about 3K a year, heavy outdoorsman (hunt, fish, camp, light expedition type activities), not the greenest guy in the world, more about efficiency: Close cell foamed my whole house, all LED lighting, got Solar to get the tax break and backup power capabilities, got the Tesla for performance, the tax break and the fact that I hate giving ISIS and their brothers in the middle east any oil revenue dollars to have that money turned around to be used to kill and injure US citizens and soldiers around the globe.

I also hate the established dealership cartel, that uses our legal system to prevent competition and innovation - they can suck it - i am done with them and their legal manipulations. I am also done with buying foreign built products that circumvent our laws and tax structure to avoid our great labor force here in the USA - they are also on my suck it list.

The way I see it, we have already damaged our environment to the point that it may not recover - that won't really hurt you and I immediately, but it will cause great deal of problems for the global population that will have challenges that they have never experienced before. You have kids, so do I - do I want them to have to deal with crap that we blew off? People who have no respect for the environment - they are on my suck it list too.

I see it this way - our political system is so broken that the only way I have left to vote is with my dollars - with that my Tesla sends a very loud and clear message. I support American engineering, manufacturing, service centers, employees, and believe in a competitive market without legal market constraints and I do less damage to our environment while starving our enemies of revenue dollars they use to attack us.

Do you get it now?

Can I wait a couple days for an appointment to "rarely" go get work done on my model S - hell yes. (about once a year)
Do I like Elon Musk? - hell yes, if he called me tomorrow and said come work 14 hour days 7 days a week for me, I would accept.
Am I an Model X Fan? Yes and no - Yes for the product, but no due to my lifestyle needs
Do a give a damn what Leonardo DiCRAPro says? really?
Do I think auto pilot is a good idea - yes - it could reduce my insurance premiums - do I NEED it - no.
Does my Tesla fit every need - no, but it's damn close.

I'm glad you posted - I would give you five thumbs up for reminding me why i am selling my P85's to get the newer P90D's... 100K behind the wheel of Tesla and sold for life...