coolant leak in rear drive unit (12k miles on odometer) and Tesla says someone touched it so the warranty NOT applicable

[sparklehunt]

Pictures: shows leaking hose. Also notice absence of impact damage.

History: car was traded into Mercedes and Person A bought it. I bought it from Person A.

Tesla says: Service advisor says his Tech person is sure someone non Tesla “touched the car” or was working on the car. Their “proof” is that if the hose was in the correct position, it would not develop a leak.

My doubts: I do know the history is abnormal, but If a car is under bumper to bumper warranty, why would anyone elect to NOT have Tesla work on it? It seems unlikely.

What do I do?

 

[Pianewman]

How expensive is the repair? Going beyond the principle of the discussion, unless the cost is high, we could end this right here...

(Is it my computer screen, or is there damage to the plastic shield???)

 

[mbdionio]

maybe there was an attempt to get a catalytic converter

 

[sparklehunt]

How expensive is the repair? Going beyond the principle of the discussion, unless the cost is high, we could end this right here...

(Is it my computer screen, or is there damage to the plastic shield???)

Well if out of pocket, I’m paying for a loaner car too… so at least couple hundred. It’s not just a $20 hose. They mentioned pulling a subframe to get to the hose. No estimate yet because I didn’t submit for service.

As honest consumers, I don’t think we should be letting things slide because of the cost. If anything, it should be other way around. If the cost is little why not make a happy customer… but Tesla culture these days is very cocky

 

[Pianewman]

sparklehunt: Tesla isn't the only manufacturer with a "cocky" attitude. "Warranty" denial is SOP for the industry, requiring the consumer to push harder than they should have to. Sometimes it just isn't worth the time and effort to argue.

("...honest consumers...?" I almost choked on that one. A little searching on ANY auto forum exposes "honest consumers" altering their vehicles, then reinstalling the OEM parts to make a warranty claim.)

The service center needs to prove to you, with photos, that the car was worked on. Period.

 

[thesmokingman]

this was a private party sale. Lawering up is not really practical advice, the cost would be more than the repair.

also I spoke extensively with the seller, it is highly unlikely this was some evil doing on their part.

am I getting the overall sense that the forum members here feel that Tesla is in the right? Only because the car changed hands?

Here are the facts I know: the car is under warranty. The coolant is leaking. There are no signs of damage indicating abuse. I feel this is clearly warranty work. If I’m right, I’d love some advice to approach this dilemma. If I’m wrong, please tell me using facts and not conjectures.

And you didn't have this car inspected before buying it? And then the real question, who are you going to go to war with then? If you think it's hard going after the seller, how do you think you'd fare going after Tesla????

 

[fiehlsport]

Yeah, they could deny any warranty claim if a car was purchased from a third-party, and claim that the last owner messed with something. That's a slippery slope. The burden of proof is on the dealer to show that this vehicle was worked on by someone else. Tool marks on the bolts, clamps... missing clips, etc.

If this hose requires the subframe to be dropped, it was probably installed wrong at the factory. There's no practical reason for someone to stick their hand up there and dislodge a coolant hose that can't be reasonably accessed without dropping the subframe.

 

[sparklehunt]

sparklehunt: Tesla isn't the only manufacturer with a "cocky" attitude. "Warranty" denial is SOP for the industry, requiring the consumer to push harder than they should have to. Sometimes it just isn't worth the time and effort to argue.

Makes sense that it is SOP. That's why competition is so critical.

("...honest consumers...?" I almost choked on that one. A little searching on ANY auto forum exposes "honest consumers" altering their vehicles, then reinstalling the OEM parts to make a warranty claim.)

Your example is flawed because the data you cited is biased. The type of people frequenting auto forums are also more likely to want to alter their stuff.
Most people don't go on forums. They just buy a product and have reasonable expectations for it. I'd like to think a majority of people are honest and well-intentioned. I personally don't come unless I need help (which I am grateful for this resource from experienced folk!).

The service center needs to prove to you, with photos, that the car was worked on. Period.

agreed. I will ask for proof with photos. Thank you.

 

[sparklehunt]

Yeah, they could deny any warranty claim if a car was purchased from a third-party, and claim that the last owner messed with something. That's a slippery slope. The burden of proof is on the dealer to show that this vehicle was worked on by someone else. Tool marks on the bolts, clamps... missing clips, etc.

If this hose requires the subframe to be dropped, it was probably installed wrong at the factory. There's no practical reason for someone to stick their hand up there and dislodge a coolant hose that can't be reasonably accessed without dropping the subframe.

Agreed here. I just formally submitted to the Service Center this morning. It was a different advisor so hopefully the desired conclusion is made.

Thanks for that insight. Tool marks, missing clips seem a better evidence than 'misplaced hose'. That particular Advisor was using circular logic saying that the warranty item is the same thing that voids the warranty. I remember the Tech only said 'the hose is out of position' and never made the conclusion about someone working on it. It was the Advisor that latched onto the fact I bought it private-party who continued his odd logic train.

Well thank you for the sensible replies. I will update after the estimate.

 

[Mateo83]

Makes me wonder if those neat aftermarket aluminum skid plates could lead to warranty hassles.

 

[fiehlsport]

Agreed here. I just formally submitted to the Service Center this morning. It was a different advisor so hopefully the desired conclusion is made.

Thanks for that insight. Tool marks, missing clips seem a better evidence than 'misplaced hose'. That particular Advisor was using circular logic saying that the warranty item is the same thing that voids the warranty. I remember the Tech only said 'the hose is out of position' and never made the conclusion about someone working on it. It was the Advisor that latched onto the fact I bought it private-party who continued his odd logic train.

Well thank you for the sensible replies. I will update after the estimate.

Good luck, I hope getting some fresh eyes on your case is helpful and the odd-logic of one service advisor isn't the final word. It's still possible someone did something, but very unlikely, and having a solid diagnosis of that in writing from Tesla would be essential for this to make sense.

 

[sparklehunt]

UPDATE: I just got off a lengthy phone conversation with Sid from Sunnyvale Tesla. He said his Tech advised him that this is outside influence and the reason he "knows" is that the hose is out of place. They are denying warranty.

I asked, "Does Tesla factory put 100% of parts in their correct place all the time?"

Sid said, "I can not make that statement. You are trying to entrap me to make statements that agree to you."

I asked, "Why is the hose being out of place mean you assume it is outside influence?"

Sid, "The hose is out of place so it is outside influence."

I asked for photo evidence of "outside influence".

Sid, "I will send you photos of the hose out of place."

I asked to speak with a manager.

 

[Undecided_2]

UPDATE: I just got off a lengthy phone conversation with Sid from Sunnyvale Tesla. He said his Tech advised him that this is outside influence and the reason he "knows" is that the hose is out of place. They are denying warranty.

I asked, "Does Tesla factory put 100% of parts in their correct place all the time?"

Sid said, "I can not make that statement. You are trying to entrap me to make statements that agree to you."

I asked, "Why is the hose being out of place mean you assume it is outside influence?"

Sid, "The hose is out of place so it is outside influence."

I asked for photo evidence of "outside influence".

Sid, "I will send you photos of the hose out of place."

I asked to speak with a manager.

That’s crap. Keep pushing in a friendly but firm way. Ask for details of their legal department or something similar. Is it covered under your insurance?

 

[sparklehunt]

That’s crap. Keep pushing in a friendly but firm way. Ask for details of their legal department or something similar. Is it covered under your insurance?

How do you mean details of their legal department?

 

[fiehlsport]

If you mention anything about legal, they will stop helping you. Absolute last resort.

It wouldn't be covered under insurance unless there was an outside incident that caused it. But... there's no proof that *anything* caused it.

 

[sparklehunt]

 

[thesmokingman]

How do you mean details of their legal department?

I told you earlier, who you gonna go after? The seller or Tesla? You're getting terrible advice to fight Tesla. You have no leg to stand on. You didn't verify the car was clean when buying it. You don't have anything to argue other than Tesla should just do it for the customer. But they are clearly not gonna eat this cost for you when it was clear to the tech it's been messed with.

This is completely different than say if you modded the car and they, Tesla claimed that mod broke something and they in turn void the warranty. In this situation, you've got the Magnuson Moss Act, which forces Tesla to prove your mod caused the eventual break down.

In this situation, you have no proof of anything in the chain. You only have Tesla's word whether you believe them or not. You don't even seem to care about the seller?

 

[fiehlsport]

Don't see why that couldn't have been forgotten at the factory.

 

[DanDi58]

Hard to tell what those photos are - your car, or another MY for comparison? I still think your best bet might be to find a third-party shop.

 

[sparklehunt]

I told you earlier, who you gonna go after? The seller or Tesla? You're getting terrible advice to fight Tesla. You have no leg to stand on. You didn't verify the car was clean when buying it. You don't have anything to argue other than Tesla should just do it for the customer. But they are clearly not gonna eat this cost for you when it was clear to the tech it's been messed with.

I'm not trying to fight anyone. And I did run a CarFax.

This is completely different than say if you modded the car and they, Tesla claimed that mod broke something and they in turn void the warranty. In this situation, you've got the Magnuson Moss Act, which forces Tesla to prove your mod caused the eventual break down.

Why is this a better situation? I'm not trying to get lawyers. I bought a car to use in a normal way and it broke while under warranty.

In this situation, you have no proof of anything in the chain. You only have Tesla's word whether you believe them or not. You don't even seem to care about the seller?

Neither does Tesla. Does their reasoning make sense to you?

I already told the seller and they are surprised by this too. The seller is a Doctor and works at a hospital.

 

[sparklehunt]

Hard to tell what those photos are - your car, or another MY for comparison? I still think your best bet might be to find a third-party shop.

Lol if I go to a 3rd party shop, then they really will be able to void the warranty forever.