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Coronavirus

avoigt

Active Member
Sep 5, 2017
2,790
37,869
Germany
Both China and South Korea employed drastic measures that are really not possible in the west.

Politely disagree. If it get severe you will be surprised what can be implemented if required.

Actually its already happening in Italy and you can tighten if you want and if necessary.

Since the measures in China and South Korea proved to work if it gets out of control I have difficulties to understand the panic since measures that work exist.

People should panic if they don't and no measures are available.
 

Singer3000

Member
Apr 26, 2018
756
5,134
Singapore
We all heard recently about the lack of testing kits in the United States. Surprisingly, the Lt. Governor of Hawaii, a physician, gave an interview this morning and said that there was no shortage of available testing and that any physician could authorize a test for COVID-19 and have the results back within 3 days. He says shortly that time delay will be reduced to 1 day. The COVID-19 testing is being provided by private labs. I'm just curious about the situation in other states.
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Singuy

Active Member
Jun 28, 2018
3,294
22,320
US
Politely disagree. If it get severe you will be surprised what can be implemented if required.

Actually its already happening in Italy and you can tighten if you want and if necessary.

Since the measures in China and South Korea proved to work if it gets out of control I have difficulties to understand the panic since measures that work exist.

People should panic if they don't and no measures are available.

Honestly if Korean deaths continue to remain tiny relative to active cases because they are giving pts hydroxychloroquine plus zinc or kaletra, then you don't really need to be all crazy with quarantine if the reduction in death rate becomes similar to the flu after treatment.

I think complete eradication of this virus seems unlikely. Living with it in the future seems more plausible.
 

Nairb

Member
Jul 7, 2019
136
324
BC
Far, far worse ... like the 35 million cases, 490,561 hospitalizations, and 34,157 deaths we had last winter in the US alone from the flu?

You're totally missing my point. We know that tens of thousands will die every year in the US from the flu. Why don't you advocate for similar measures every winter to prevent the spread of the regular flu?

Edit: see Burden of Influenza

So then why don't you start a new forum on the internet that's all about preventing the seasonal flu. To accomplish that you'll probably want to suggest shutting down regions where it is flaring up, minimizing mass gatherings like sporting events, concerts, and religious gatherings, and closing stores like apple did for the last month. The effect on the economy and the markets will likely be profound every year from October to March.

The flu is common and regular. Coronavirus' are rare and extraordinary. Hence the reaction.

This whole discussion will be deleted when the moderators wake up. There's a dedicated area for it now outside this thread.
 
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traxila

Supporting Member
Nov 25, 2012
1,628
8,685
NYC
Out of curiosity is anyone else’s county in the US doing contact tracing? Also are exposure sites being announced? This is happening in Omaha so I’m feeling pretty lucky to be living here. Also our public schools are closed for a week and we only have 11 officially confirmed cases.

Hope to follow your lead here in NYC. We really need a school shutdown and a baseline understanding of the number of infected before our health care is swamped. Hope it’s not too late, but increasingly feels to me that it is. Very hard to find leaders with intelligence, vision and the courage to act on their knowledge regardless of the prevailing opinion of the masses. Guess that is a constant everywhere in life throughout history.

All the best and stay healthy!
 

uselesslogin

Supporting Member
Jun 13, 2013
1,830
3,776
Omaha, NE
Hope to follow your lead here in NYC. We really need a school shutdown and a baseline understanding of the number of infected before our health care is swamped. Hope it’s not too late, but increasingly feels to me that it is. Very hard to find leaders with intelligence, vision and the courage to act on their knowledge regardless of the prevailing opinion of the masses. Guess that is a constant everywhere in life throughout history.

All the best and stay healthy!
Thanks, same to you. I’m very worried for NYC. My parents are in the NJ suburbs. Thankfully my sister is now concerned and able to convince them to not travel or volunteer at the hospital. They wouldn’t listen to me.
 
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AlexS

Member
Oct 3, 2018
924
3,796
Estonia
Japan and Germany avg age is older than Italy.

Social distancing would affect total cases.

List of countries by median age - Wikipedia

Japan, Germany and Italy area top 3 countries with oldest population.

What you also see is Italy have only 3 hospital beds per 1000people, Sout Korea is 12 beds per 1000 ppl.

Today was Italian dude in Estonian newspaper and he told that situation is so bad with beds and ventilators, that they are just selecting people who could more or less survive and look more healthy, oldest and weakest they just let die to save others. This is what happens if you have poor medical readiness, unfortunately.
 
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Thekiwi

Active Member
Mar 31, 2016
1,384
11,950
Wellington
You causally toss out Ya, just the flu bro yet the flu kills several orders of magnitude more people every single year in the US than the CV killed in China, even though China has 5X the population. Do you not care about those tens of thousands of people? Were you yelling loudly back in October for the government to shut down schools, sports, events, etc. to prevent that disaster?

Also, what "tsunami"? According to:

China Coronavirus: 80,814 Cases and 3,177 Deaths - Worldometer

China only had 80K documented cases. Let's assume the ChiComs are hiding something and the real number is 100X the reported one ... that's still less than a quarter of the tens of millions of flu cases here in the US every year.

so much wrong with this I don’t know where to start, but I’ll try:

1. Yes, the regular flu is bad, which is why it strains health systems at its peak every year.
2. CV is much worse, with a much higher fatality rate, and it is occurring at the same time as influenza is already straining the system.
3. Unlike influenza, there is no vaccine for CV, and it is still not entirely understood, which leads to much higher transmission, and...
4. Medical staff are in higher danger of catching CV, leading to less staff available,
5. There are simply not enough resources in place to treat the hospitalizations due to CV, unless it is greatly slowed or contained to specific areas (so other untouched regions can contribute resources).

unless a country follows the same extreme measures that China & South Korea took, then the outcome is far far worse. So a country need to take extreme measures, even if it looks like an overreaction, as the consequences of an under-reaction are severe.

comparing it to the Flu is really silly.
 

Matias

Active Member
Apr 2, 2014
3,209
3,551
Finland
Some more info on the new UK strategy:

Benjamin Kentish on Twitter


View attachment 521125
View attachment 521126



And
here is the UK Chief Medical Officer outlining the strategy. If you have mild symptoms, stay at home for 7 days. Only seek medical attention if your symptoms progress to serious. Meanwhile at this point, no forced bans on public events or school closures which are seen as counter productive to the central strategy.
Boris Johnson on Twitter

When the UK government says it is modelling for an 80% infection rate, I think we need to take them at their word. Germany are saying similar.

Coronavirus: as many as 10,000 in Britain may already have it, says PM

Chris Whitty, the chief medical officer, said that worst-case scenario planning projected that 80% of the country would contract the virus, with a 1% mortality rate. This equates to more than 500,000 deaths.​

Speaking at a sombre press conference in Downing Street, the prime minister said measures to tackle “the worst public health crisis for a generation” could “cause severe disruption” to everyday life for months.

“It is going to spread further and I must level with you, I must level with the British public: many more families are going to lose loved ones before their time,” Johnson said, as two more fatalities from Covid-19 brought the death toll in Britain so far to 10.

Dismissing the belief that the virus is comparable to seasonal flu, he added: “Alas that is not right. Due to the lack of immunity, this disease is more dangerous,” with the elderly at particular risk. Entire families could be told to self-isolate if one of them falls ill, and people should start looking after elderly relatives and neighbours, he added.
As a son, husband, father and citizen it saddens me deeply that my prior warnings that were seen by many here as alarmist, are a view now openly shared by the government of the United Kingdom.

As an investor, I am relieved I took the steps I did, both to protect my existing assets and to profit from the slide to provide some extra buffer against likely loss of future income.

Where do markets go from here? There’s a prevalent market view still that this is a short sharp v-shape recession that will not affect 2021 numbers. Maybe that’s right but see my previous post on the unknowables. Even if that is the case, I do not think we are at the bottom yet, until this grim message has been properly absorbed by global society at large. The mood of which after all is what indirectly drives global markets trends outside the short term.

Unless of course the UK govt is totally wrong and it really is “Mission Accomplished” as claimed by China. Let’s hope so.
Why is UK not trying to flatten the curve?
 
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jerry33

(S85-3/2/13 traded in) X LR: F2611##-3/27/20
Mar 8, 2012
19,517
21,710
Texas
I disagree. There are people with mild symptoms walking around right now spreading disease. If they could easily / quickly get tested they could be properly isolated at home. Not having adequate tests is a colossal failure.
FIFY If they could easily / quickly / cheaply get tested
 
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AlexS

Member
Oct 3, 2018
924
3,796
Estonia
FIFY If they could easily / quickly / cheaply get tested

You would need more test kits than population. As there is also psychological coronavirus, a lot of people think they have it and test themselves several time. Also mass hysteria would kick in to get test kits, similar situation as you can see in the shops.
 

EV Promoter

Member
Nov 30, 2019
334
935
Europe
Politely disagree. If it get severe you will be surprised what can be implemented if required.

Actually its already happening in Italy and you can tighten if you want and if necessary.
Correct, this is what is happening here, Italy... very difficult to shut down anything else and futher stop people mobility... and is going surprisingly well, no major problems. Apart the bill we're going to pay, impossible to evalute now.....

But this is because we are a small country as territory and nr. of people. With strong free medical assistance, welfare and payed sick leave, as this emergency is considered. Same thing should develop in US? It will socially be very very different... and worrying i guess...

Cheers from the isolation. Air quality magnificent anyway :)
 

renim

Active Member
Apr 6, 2013
1,796
2,244
Oz
MOH | News Highlights

Travel advisory

4. In light of the rapid spread of the virus across Europe, the Ministry of Health (MOH) advises Singaporeans to defer all non-essential travel to Italy, France, Spain and Germany. The four countries have had very high numbers of cases and very high rates of increase. In addition, our existing advisory to defer all travel to Hubei province in mainland China, and non-essential travel to the rest of mainland China, Iran1, Japan and the Republic of Korea, remains.


painful choice for an airport hub city state.
 

KarenRei

ᴉǝɹuǝɹɐʞ
Jul 18, 2017
9,619
103,828
Iceland

I've been thinking about this for a while. China is an industrial powerhouse, and now has "we can beat COVID-19" to put on its resume. I expect China to put extra emphasis on churning out medical equipment that's in short supply (such as ventilators) to send en masse to other countries whose good side they want to get on. They can earn money on export sales and come across as heroes at the same time.
 

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