Coronavirus

[TSLAopt]

It's just bizarre that one would be skeptical because one doesn't personally know anyone who has died of coronavirus. Is that the bar we need to get over now? And somehow that means it is fishy? Just incredibly bizarre. 0.05% of the US population has died, predominantly in low-income, disadvantaged, and elderly communities, which are more vulnerable to exposure and to the effects of the virus. Not sure why most Tesla drivers and podcasters would think they're going to have heavily affected social circles. I don't personally know anyone who has died of flu (ever!), but I don't need to know that to understand & KNOW that it is a serious disease that kills, and that getting a vaccine protects myself and others, especially those who are vulnerable.

Believe the experts. Listen to Fauci. He's level-headed, states the facts, and understands the dangers. He's not going to tell you that children are in great danger (he just pushed back on that in his testimony this morning for example), but he also understands what are the risks associated with returning to school, and states as much.

This mentality does explain why hard-hit states continue to do well for now, though. Presumably that mental inoculation will wear off with time, unfortunately.

The good news is that school & college reopenings and the onset of fall temperatures should really seal the deal with the truthers.

in any given year somewhere around ~1% of the general population is already dying...i think a lot of us have logic (trying best to take emotion out of argument) thinking that we're just not so sure 1.05% or even if it ramped up to ~1.2% or ~1.5% for 1-2 years (with the extra 0.5% being mostly people over 70 who were mostly closer to death anyways) is worth what we're going through here. I'm not saying it's not, but I'm saying that this question is not really being considered enough for discussion.

Speaking of low income/disadvantaged communities, there are many many thousands of kids (if not millions) where school was there only 'safe place'. My home growing up was certainly safe but I grew up in public schools like that in NYC area. This is more common in low income communities especially. Now all these 'troubled' kids are all being kept home isolated in their very unsafe home eviornments with no escape. I think that people are not considering enough the FACT that there are many damages going on like this or with people losing jobs, depression living alone, etc.

This is one thing Faucie and Birx and those 'experts' need to really consider with their guidance before it keeps leading to schools being shut down again for another year for example...

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

This is one thing Faucie and Birx and those 'experts'

' ' are not needed. Fauci (and even Birx) are experts.

They want nothing more than to reopen schools. Fauci has specifically said that schools can reopen in some areas. They fully consider the harm that keeping schools closed does, and they want to not have that harm. I'm not sure why you think they're somehow not considering that.

in any given year somewhere around ~1% of the general population is already dying...i think a lot of us have logic (trying best to take emotion out of argument) thinking that we're just not so sure 1.05% or even if it ramped up to ~1.2% or ~1.5% for 1-2 years (with the extra 0.5% being mostly people over 70 who were mostly closer to death anyways) is worth what we're going through here.

I'm pretty sure if the hospitals weren't guaranteed to collapse with uncontrolled spread, we'd probably adopt this (fairly heartless) philosophy nationwide (even though there is a much better solution - effectively eliminate the virus!). It's a little bit sad that it comes down to that grim, heartless calculus, but the reason we're going through this is because mortality in uninfected people will go way up if the health care system is overwhelmed.

 

[Daniel in SD]

This is one thing Faucie and Birx and those 'experts' need to really consider with their guidance before it keeps leading to schools being shut down again for another year for example...

Did Fauci or Birx say schools shouldn't reopen? I must have missed that.
How does your media censorship plan deal with people getting suckered by charlatans on social media?

 

[ZeApelido]

View attachment 570956

Have you changed your opinion?

I wonder if Brian Wesbury has updated to graph? Should we be concerned the COVID-19 is getting more deadly? (just in case it's not clear, I'm rolling my eyes).

Look at this. Percent positive test rate (times 100) overlayed on daily new deaths (I shifted them back 3 weeks).

The ratio looks the same for a while

 

[dfwatt]

My mindset about this COVID19 is pretty closely aligned to this guy...skip past first 2 minutes and 30 seconds and he discusses suspicionS/skepticism of COVId19 I also have.

‎A Real Man Would...: Solo Pod Experiment on Apple Podcasts

It's unfortunate you shared this (well, unfortunate for your credibility anyway!). It really exposes where you're coming from, which appears to be consuming paranoia about the 'Deep State'. This podcast reiterates so many talking points of the far-right it's scary namely that my freedom demands that I have the right to reject masks, that the experts don't know anything and there's no such thing as real truth, it's all just manufactured opinion. The basis for this idiot's skepticism is that he hasn't heard about anyone famous dying that would be like Brad Pitt or Tom Hanks. Well that's a really good basis for rejecting covid-19. Brilliant ! All horse---. I'm not sure you want your alignment with this position exposed on a forum where the currency is science, evidence, and reasonable hypothesis testing and experiment. There are real truths about covid-19, many of them painfully acquired. You're not conversant unfortunately with any of them.

Here's an experiment for you. I want you to interview a physician who works on a covid-19 unit in one of the states that has been swamped. This could be New York, New Jersey, Arizona, California, Florida, Massachusetts (the list goes on and on), any number of states. I want you to ask him or her what their experience is in the trenches treating patients who are sick and dying from covid-19. I don't know if you could tolerate this conversation, but if you could it would help you.

It might expand your incredibly constricted worldview and actually help you appreciate that there is real suffering and an enormous volume of it associated with this virus. It's not a hoax, it's not a conspiracy to shut down the economy and deny an election Victory to our wonderful president, it's none of those things. It's on track (given our current course of denial and minimization and therefore non-compliance with basic anti transmission practices) to kill approximately 250,000 people in the United States at least this year. The fact that you don't (yet) know anybody that's died from this disease does not constitute even remotely any kind of scientific basis to throw out all the information that we have and that has been verified, vetted, and reviewed.

If you could absorb some of this information which is admittedly not consonant with your worldview, it would help you awake from the current coma that you're in. It's not a conventional coma, but rather one induced by disinformation, conspiracy theory, and lack of empathy.

 

[dfwatt]

I am going start wearing my Vader helmet, complete with respirator.

Pictures please!

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

They really, really, feel like they want HCQ in covid to be quackery

Steve, no need to respond to this, but I just want to clarify that I really, really want HCQ to be extremely effective. I think I've made it extremely clear that I have no desire for it to be quackery (and I think most people here want it to be effective as well, though they'd have to chime in with opinions on that).

My feeling on HCQ seem to match those of Dr. Fauci, particularly the end of the clip (and it covers the Henry Ford study as well):

https://twitter.com/mkraju/status/1289240842398400512?s=20

It's an extremely balanced take - and can be summarized as: follow the data. Allow the data to come forward with appropriate studies. Medicine appears to be a continual search for efficacy, and it's possible we haven't stumbled upon the perfect combination of dosing and other drugs to combine with HCQ yet. But with what has been tried and studied thus far, we have no data yet supporting efficacy for HCQ.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

It'll be interesting to see how this plays out, starting tomorrow:

VIDEO: Gov. David Ige announces trans-Pacific pre-travel testing program as quarantine alternative

Looks like this method is guaranteed to fail horribly. They need a second test for travelers, and possibly a third, to minimize missed cases and to allow contact tracing for the outliers that show up as positive after being on the island for a few days.

Kauai seems to have the right idea, though they acknowledge they'll still miss cases. I didn't do a search to see what they're actually going to end up doing, though:

Could New Kauai Proposal Be A Model For Bringing Back Tourism?

Maybe @Papafox has been tracking the details. But the August 1st plan looks destined to fail. Hopefully they have a plan to monitor carefully before things get out of hand (though things are looking pretty grim in Hawaii now in general, anyway, so at least some islands may already be out of luck).

 

[TespaceX]

Just a data point.

The diagnostic testing sites in my county (in the San Francisco Bay Area region) are warning patients that results can take up to 2 weeks to get back currently as the labs are backed up.

Edited to add:
Can you imagine what it would be like in the Fall or at any point during the school year?

The guidelines for my school district says that when it is possible to open up a hybrid schedule, families wishing to take that option will have to follow some rules:

If a child is sick showing any cold or flu-like symptoms, the child is required to be picked up immediately (or kept at home) and not return to school until the child is completely symptom-free and a doctor’s note is shown explaining that the child does not have COVID-19. (Possible, but not mandatory, that the doctor would need to order a test).

If at any point, a coronavirus test is taken (whether voluntarily by the parent or prescribed by the doctor to do so), the child must be symptom free and proof of a negative test result shown to the school before being allowed back onto campus.

Further, if a child tests positive for COVID-19, the child must be kept home for at least 2 weeks from the first date that the child missed school, and be completely symptom free with an accompanying doctor’s note.

And, if a positive case is confirmed, the student or teacher’s class needs to be closed for 2 days for cleaning. If more than one class were to have a positive case around the same time, the entire school would be closed for 2 days for cleaning.

 

[madodel]

Just a data point.

The diagnostic testing sites in my county (in the San Francisco Bay Area region) are warning patients that results can take up to 2 weeks to get back currently as the labs are backed up.

This country has had 5 months to build out the testing ability for COVID19. That is a complete disgrace.

 

[TSLAopt]

This country has had 5 months to build out the testing ability for COVID19. That is a complete disgrace.

I 100% agree

Govt bureacracies keep failing us with regards to info/advice and function too

 

[TSLAopt]

Did Fauci or Birx say schools shouldn't reopen? I must have missed that.
How does your media censorship plan deal with people getting suckered by charlatans on social media?

"getting suckered by charlatans" has always happened in human history as we are a tribal species...giving someone the job and power of deciding what "suckered" means and what that doesn't mean and who is a 'charlatan' and who isn't is a line i don't think we should cross.

Some case might seem obvious, but then there are so many grey area cases too...things are not all black and white on this type of thing.

Perhaps we are in agreement on this. However, we should change the media business model to perhaps outlaw advertising when it comes to news and require subscription based revenue for news sources...maybe with some help from govt...also require diversity of workforce in terms of politics...perhaps give extra benefits to media organizations that have closer to a 50/50 mix of registered democrat/republican employees...

Censorship I do not think is way to go...people realize something is being censored then people tend to lose trust and create leaks to look elswhere for info, and become more trusting of even more conspiracy theory type thinking....we see this with main stream media no longer being trusted by more and more of the population...people IMO now more and more get their news from social media or podcasts which they now trust more than mainstream media reporting.

These are just some initial brainstorming ideas...Elon knows the current media biz model is broken too, hence his Pravduh idea/suggestion a few years back...something needs to be done about it sooner or later

 

[madodel]

I 100% agree

Govt bureacracies keep failing us with regards to info/advice and function too

More Lord of the Flies crap. What we need is a competent government. In other words anyone other than the terminally stupid corrupt one we currently have.

 

[JRP3]

i think a lot of us have logic (trying best to take emotion out of argument) thinking that we're just not so sure 1.05% or even if it ramped up to ~1.2% or ~1.5% for 1-2 years (with the extra 0.5% being mostly people over 70 who were mostly closer to death anyways) is worth what we're going through here. I'm not saying it's not, but I'm saying that this question is not really being considered enough for discussion.

It is being considered. What isn't being considered strongly enough is that death is not the only negative outcome, there is more and more evidence of severe long lasting effects from this disease even if you survive it initially.

 

[linux-works]

I 100% agree

Govt bureacracies trump and the republicans keep failing us with regards to info/advice and function too

there, fixed that for you.

 

[eevee-fan]

Hm... looks familiar.

 

[linux-works]

in any given year somewhere around ~1% of the general population is already dying...i think a lot of us have logic (trying best to take emotion out of argument) thinking that we're just not so sure 1.05% or even if it ramped up to ~1.2% or ~1.5% for 1-2 years (with the extra 0.5% being mostly people over 70 who were mostly closer to death anyways) is worth what we're going through here

I am now getting so desensitized to the republican 'die for the dow' BS, I just don't care if THEY die or not. I just don't, anymore.

you want to die for the dow, go right ahead. conservative? sure, be my guest.

 

[Daniel in SD]

"getting suckered by charlatans" has always happened in human history as we are a tribal species...giving someone the job and power of deciding what "suckered" means and what that doesn't mean and who is a 'charlatan' and who isn't is a line i don't think we should cross.

Some case might seem obvious, but then there are so many grey area cases too...things are not all black and white on this type of thing.

Perhaps we are in agreement on this. However, we should change the media business model to perhaps outlaw advertising when it comes to news and require subscription based revenue for news sources...maybe with some help from govt...also require diversity of workforce in terms of politics...perhaps give extra benefits to media organizations that have closer to a 50/50 mix of registered democrat/republican employees...

Censorship I do not think is way to go...people realize something is being censored then people tend to lose trust and create leaks to look elswhere for info, and become more trusting of even more conspiracy theory type thinking....we see this with main stream media no longer being trusted by more and more of the population...people IMO now more and more get their news from social media or podcasts which they now trust more than mainstream media reporting.

These are just some initial brainstorming ideas...Elon knows the current media biz model is broken too, hence his Pravduh idea/suggestion a few years back...something needs to be done about it sooner or later

I don't know what the solution is.
Frankly I think that most mainstream media is factually accurate on the national level (even Fox News in their non editorial content!). Your statement about Dr. Fauci and Dr. Birx makes me think that you believe that scientific information should be politically "balanced". I disagree. The things you've posted from social media are ridiculous, I fear people just seek out what they want to hear.

 

[SageBrush]

in any given year somewhere around ~1% of the general population is already dying...i think a lot of us have logic (trying best to take emotion out of argument) thinking that we're just not so sure 1.05% or even if it ramped up to ~1.2% or ~1.5% for 1-2 years (with the extra 0.5% being mostly people over 70 who were mostly closer to death anyways) is worth what we're going through here. I'm not saying it's not, but I'm saying that this question is not really being considered enough for discussion.

Let me bring this to a personal level. You might find it easier to follow:

I am 62, and make an effort to be healthy. I am not fat, I do not smoke, take drugs, or eat animals. In normal times I can expect to have a good quality of life I enjoy very much for another 20 years. However, I have asthma, and infection by Covid-19 for me is a high risk look at death.

My health is now dependent on the public not infecting me. It depends on people like you wearing a mask and social distancing. I am not asking people like you to not work, or not go to school, or to stay at home. I want you to behave in a manner that keeps the pandemic in check.

Imagine my reaction when people like you say "I have the right to infect anybody I please."

 

[dfwatt]

I 100% agree

Govt bureacracies keep failing us with regards to info/advice and function too

Nope. Once again you pin the tail on the wrong donkey. It's not the 'government bureaucracy' (another way of perhaps repackaging your conviction that the Deep State is responsible for all the evils) - it's the Moron in charge of the federal government, and appointing other morons throughout the cabinet and then undercutting the experts at the CDC. The CDC did make some mistakes but they pale in comparison to the mistakes made by Trump and his collection of sycophantic idiots. Once again you fail to consider the example set by other countries even ones hit hard by covid-19 such as the other European Democracies. While they all paid a price they all learned, modified their behavior, and got the thing under control. We on the other hand continue to disseminate b******* of the kind that you're disseminating here, undercutting compliance with common sense and easily achievable epidemiologic controls, and the result is our current klusterfuk