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Coronavirus

Discussion in 'TSLA Investor Discussions' started by Wenche, Jan 27, 2020.

  1. dfwatt

    dfwatt Active Member

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    #19581 dfwatt, Aug 1, 2020 at 8:01 AM
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2020 at 8:22 AM
    Those are some lovely thoughts, but I wish I shared your optimism about this as a strongly assured outcome. Unfortunately I think at this point it is more likely that Trump will be successful in some form of coup than not successful.

    Here's what I think he will do. He will impound all of the ballots that he can get his hands on, order his militia, backed by his army of Second Amendment nutjobs, to surround state capitals and state election commissions and simply confiscate the evidence of his loss. Once the evidence is acquired and in his control that he has lost the election, it will be disappeared, never to be seen again, and imprisoned under some phony Declaration of National Security. Bill Barr will float some horseshit about election fraud, and begin the pro-forma indictment of state election commissions which of course will not result in any charges because they won't be any evidence for that but it will intimidate the election commissions into shutting up. At that point Trump will declare that because the election was fraudulently stolen by Biden (and the confiscated ballots will be claimed as proof of this) that the election is invalidated and in that context that he is still the president. He might graciously announce that he'll drop the charges against the state election commissions and against Biden and another Democrats in exchange for simply forgetting the whole thing.

    It's possible that there will be other efforts at distraction and of course in the context of these and other similar type actions there will be widespread rioting in many cities which of course will give Trump an excuse to send in his Stormtroopers and at that point I suspect people will begin dying. I do not think that the militias at that point will spare lethal Force. I wish I had a rosier picture of what's going to happen, but I think Trump has declared himself to be Psychopathic through and through, and although he does not like doing violence himself, it's pretty clear he's more than happy to have other people do violence for him such as his racist border control kidnapping children from their parents, and his militia shooting tear gas and impact weapons at protesters.

    Anybody who has a more optimistic picture of what's going to happen I think is simply being naive about Trump. Whether or not this succeeds will depend on what the Republicans Senate is willing to live with. I think they've shown that they are probably simply going to disappear and allow this to continue. The House of course will impeach Trump on the spot for all this, but then we're back into the business of the Senate not following through. A second impeachment vote is likely to be closer because I think there will be some Republicans who find a formal coup a bridge too far. But will 12-15 Republicans (depending on how many seats did the Republicans lose) move that way? I don't think so but I could be wrong.

    Then there's the question of where the Supreme Court will line up, but I don't think it's going to come down to a court case. Again I'd love to be proven wrong on all of this but I fear the worst. We've already seen evidence of just how totally sociopathic Trump really is. The other reason I'm deeply concerned is that the Democrats frankly are a bunch of f****** pussies. I don't mean to be offensive in that regard, but when people behave badly what the Democrats do is whine about it instead of arresting them. There were numerous instances during the impeachment hearing when the Witnesses were in contempt of congress and there were no consequences. I think the Republicans know that the Democrats are pussies and can be counted on to rollover in this context. There will be a lot of gnashing of teeth and complaining and righteous speeches but none of that's going to make any difference. Like I said, I'd love to be proven wrong on this, but I fear the worst. If we are not prepared and if people in Battleground states do not hold their Senators feet to the fire on a second impeachment vote at that point, I don't see a good outcome. We are already much closer to Fascism in this country than a lot of people think, and this would simply be the final transition.
     
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  2. linux-works

    linux-works Active Member

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    I do expect trump will not leave peacefully.

    but at the point where its january 20, he will be a regular citizen and have NO extra rights beyond you and I. he does not command the secret service and they now report to biden. he will not tolerate that trespasser in the WH and he will be removed if he does not leave on his own.

    this is all defined by our laws.

    and as crazy as our country has been, lately, if things bubble up to THAT level, I don't think everyone is just going to roll over and accept it.

    its one thing to let a sitting president ruin the country. we seem ok with that (sigh) - but there has never been a president who refused to leave office after his term and I don't think we, as a country, will allow it.

    I wish I could find the link to the contingency group - I saw a news report just the other day about a group who have been planning on what to do, if trump wont leave. it sounded like it was being taken very seriously, and it was not all D's either. that's what gives me a flicker of hope.
     
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  3. jerry33

    jerry33 (S85-3/2/13 traded in) X LR: F2611##-3/27/20

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    Unfortunately, I believe you're correct. He has ICE and Homeland Security. He's destroyed most of the government departments. He's threatened to dissolve the House. He's making sure there will be no vote by mail (although mail is so easy to lose). All he needs now is a night of the long knives.
     
  4. dfwatt

    dfwatt Active Member

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    Legally, and of course technically that's all true. The question is whether that will mean anything in the context of two months of total chaos and an effort to invalidate and perhaps successfully discredit the election results. The chaos at that point could be and probably will be unprecedented. I was however like you also encouraged by this commission that sort of gamed out various scenarios in the context of what might happen. All of them suggested however that the Democrats would respond too passively. Perhaps there can be a lot more forethought and planning for this set of contingencies. If the House does not plan this out and secure the commitments necessary from the armed forces and other groups, all bets are off
     
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  5. NikolaACDC

    NikolaACDC Member

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    That matches what this article describes
    Texas 'wide open for business' despite surge in Covid-19 cases

    "...to an outsider, Texas looked almost the same in July 2019 as it does in July 2020, despite Covid-19 having claimed more than 6,000 lives in the state and more than 150,000 lives in the US since March.

    Customers at the home improvement store walk in wearing masks, which have become highly politicized, only to lower them below their chins to speak or remove them altogether.

    In the upscale neighborhood of Montrose in Houston, the multi-story Agora coffee house is full of people hungry for coffee, pastries and conversation. It’s difficult to spot an open seat inside or outside on the patio. It’s also difficult to spot anyone wearing anything resembling a face covering."

    What does it take for these people to take this seriously?
    Does everybody need to know someone close that suffers badly or dies of Covid to realize what's at stake?
     
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  6. dfwatt

    dfwatt Active Member

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    Two things or three things appear to create enough cognitive dissonance for people to begin examining their misconceptions and delusions if you will. One is serious illness and death in someone's family or immediate Social Circles, and a second set of factors is severe economic dislocation. Both of those have a somewhat long feedback cycle in terms of affecting large numbers of people but I have to suspect that only a complete meltdown of the healthcare system in Texas with widespread death and collapse of local economies is going to get people to change their behavior. It's incredibly sad that it's going to take that to knock people out of their brainwashed state. But I don't see any other pathway.

    I've come to believe that in many ways the biggest problem in this country is not Trump but the kind of brainwashing that is so widespread that has made Trump possible in the first place. He of course has augmented the disinformation and the b******* that is disseminated to continue to get people to vote against their interest, but the brainwashing was already there. We are just seeing the large-scale effects of this in terms of the covid-19 denial and minimization. Keep in mind a core component of all this is the right wing distrust of experts. There are no experts, just political opinions.
     
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  7. Doggydogworld

    Doggydogworld Active Member

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    Good grief. You're as nuts as he is.

    First rule of coups - they require military support. Trump lost that long before the bungled church photo-op.
     
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  8. dfwatt

    dfwatt Active Member

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    We'll see how nuts it is when some version of this is what he tries to do. And you can proudly stand on your soapbox and announce that you thought this was all horseshit. Care to place a gentleman's wager or are you someone who likes to just talk?
     
  9. dfwatt

    dfwatt Active Member

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    #19589 dfwatt, Aug 1, 2020 at 10:15 AM
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2020 at 10:21 AM
    Let's see if you're brave enough to backup this by putting your money where your mouth is. I'll send you a $100 Amazon gift certificate if none of what I predicted comes to pass and he leaves quietly. You send me a $100 Amazon gift certificate if any of this happens. Deal? Or you really less confident in your prediction then you appear? Why don't you put your money where your mouth is?
     
  10. jerry33

    jerry33 (S85-3/2/13 traded in) X LR: F2611##-3/27/20

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    FWIW, I had to go to three stores yesterday (grocery and home improvement). Everyone was actually wearing masks. A few only put the mask on right before they went into the store, and there were a couple who didn't cover their nose, but all the rest were wearing them correctly. Of course, I went early in the morning so there was less chance of atomized virus from the HVAC. (I may be dumb and crazy, but I'm not stupid.)
     
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  11. jerry33

    jerry33 (S85-3/2/13 traded in) X LR: F2611##-3/27/20

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    We can only hope, but having ICE and Homeland Security as his enforcers, if the military is not prepared and taking extreme precautions, it's all too likely he can pull it off by eliminating the commanders who are opposed to him.
     
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  12. madodel

    madodel X at the end of a rainbow

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    All Trump has cared about is loyalty to himself with everyone he appoints. Almost all are unqualified, incompetent or determined to destroy the agency they were put in charge of. Will the military obey Trump or their oath to the Constitution?
     
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  13. TEG

    TEG Teslafanatic

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    You assume that the administration will change in January? Regardless of what the people think or want, this administration is preparing for battle to keep control and will probably surprise everyone with tactics we didn't think were possible. They have had 4 years to stack the deck in their favor.

    Regarding charges... The courts are being neutered and oriented to prevent that. More presidential pardons will be doled out.

    And besides, we tend to have a habit of just "forgive and forget" when it comes to past administrations.
    It is somewhat of an unwritten rule that new administrations don't attack past administrations.
    For one, it makes the institution look bad, and for another, the current administration tends to not want to set a precedent that the next administration after them will pick through their dirty laundry too.
     
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  14. NikolaACDC

    NikolaACDC Member

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    #19594 NikolaACDC, Aug 1, 2020 at 11:11 AM
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2020 at 11:35 AM
    "This is an unedited manuscript that has been accepted for publication. Nature Research are providing this early version of the manuscript as a service to our authors and readers."

    SARS-CoV-2-reactive T cells in healthy donors and patients with COVID-19 | Nature

    SARS-CoV-2-reactive T cells in healthy donors and patients with COVID-19

    "Here, we investigated SARS-CoV-2 spike glycoprotein (S)-reactive CD4+ T cells in peripheral blood of patients with COVID-19 and SARS-CoV-2-unexposed healthy donors (HD). We detected SARS-CoV-2 S-reactive CD4+ T cells in 83% of patients with COVID-19 but also in 35% of HD. S-reactive CD4+ T cells in HD reacted primarily to C-terminal S epitopes, which show a higher homology to spike glycoproteins of human endemic coronaviruses, compared to N-terminal epitopes. S-reactive T cell lines generated from SARS-CoV-2-naive HD responded similarly to C-terminal S of human endemic coronaviruses 229E and OC43 and SARS-CoV-2, demonstrating the presence of S-cross-reactive T cells, probably generated during past encounters with endemic coronaviruses. The role of pre-existing SARS-CoV-2 cross-reactive T cells for clinical outcomes remains to be determined in larger cohorts. However, the presence of S-cross-reactive T cells in a sizable fraction of the general population may affect the dynamics of the current pandemic, and has important implications for the design and analysis of upcoming COVID-19 vaccine trials."

    --------------

    They examined 18 blood samples from patients who had made it through a Covid-19 infection. And 68 samples of people who did not have a past Covid-19 infection.

    As expected 15/18 of the past-Covid-19-infected samples showed a strong immune reaction to Covid-19. But also 35% of the samples from people that never had Covid-19 in the past seemed to recognize Covid-19, at least partially.

    Edit: Should have added that they suspect that the reaction from the non-Covid-19-exposed patient-samples come from previous exposure to other Corona viruses like influenza or the common cold.
     
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  15. ZeApelido

    ZeApelido Active Member

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    I'm sorry but ICE and Homeland Security are poorly trained compared to the main branches of the military. If for some sick reason it came down to it they would have they arses handed to them.
     
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  16. NikolaACDC

    NikolaACDC Member

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    https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2020/08/01/thousands-berlin-protest-coronavirus-restrictions-freedom-day-march-cases-continue-rise/

    "BERLIN — Thousands of largely mask-less demonstrators marched through central Berlin on Saturday chanting “We are free people” to the beat of Queen’s “We Will Rock You” in a coronavirus restrictions protest that was also riddled with virus-related conspiracy theories.
    The demonstration took place despite recent warnings from German health officials about a new rise in infections."
    ...
    "Those present on Saturday included a hodgepodge of science skeptics, libertarians, Germany’s far-right and constitutional loyalists, Reuters reported."

    -----------
    Since most of the protesters didn't follow mask and distancing rules the police shut down the protests and is charging the organizers of the march.

    Is it possible that a stupid-virus spread through the population of the planet undetected?
     
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  17. JRP3

    JRP3 Hyperactive Member

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    This is way off topic but generally populations that eat low amounts of meat are longer lived than those who eat large amounts of meat. Our ancestors thrived mostly on fibrous plants and probably insects just as primates still do today. Some meat was consumed but it's easier to walk up to a plant and start eating than trying to hunt game. Speculation is that our modern problem of crowded teeth is the result of smaller jaws because we don't spend as much time chewing plant material as we used to. Modern plant food has less fiber and is more nutrient dense so less time is needed to get the same caloric intake, not to mention all the processed food we consume.
     
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  18. JRP3

    JRP3 Hyperactive Member

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    Not only that but I suspect there is a large contingency of Republicans in government who want Trump gone as well and as soon as he loses the election they'll see their opportunity and turn on him. Trump is all about bluster and appearances, when the powers that be take him behind closed doors and tell him to GTFO he'll make a lot of noise but he'll still go.
     
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  19. dhrivnak

    dhrivnak Active Member

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    I really wish this were true as Republicans had the perfect cover when the Dems tried the last impeachment but only one Republican voted against Trump.
     
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  20. ggr

    ggr Expert in Dunning-Kruger Effect!

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    Speaking as a retired moderator who nonetheless still has moderation privileges, I would like to point out that there is a different thread for political discussion, and name-calling and trolling are forbidden anywhere in this forum, even in the politics thread. Please keep this thread free of politics, and keep the politics thread free of rancor. (Yes, there is an implied "or else".)
     
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