Coronavirus

[renim]

 

[wdolson]

I was going to post 'We need to live with it': White House readies new message for the nation on coronavirus, but I guess you beat me to the punch.

Let's see if this comes true...

ie we're the loser country who can't figure out how to manage a pandemic.

 

[eevee-fan]

View attachment 560328

Good job, you just made the argument FOR cloth masks, that would significantly reduce aerosolizing of the virus.

MERV vs. MPR vs. FPR | MERV Rating Chart

 

[cwerdna]

ie we're the loser country who can't figure out how to manage a pandemic.

Yep.

I wish I could find the editorial that I'd read in the past few months (it might've been in the The Altantic, NY Times or Politico). It essentially said that in the past, the world would look to the US for how to handle major situations like this, esp. given the top scientists, CDC, research universities and healthcare system (well, except for the price and accessibility problems). But, obviously, our handling is NOT the one to be followed this time.

It seems like the role models for COVID-19 handling now include Taiwan, South Korea (after they got their massive spike under control) and New Zealand, to name a few.

 

[cwerdna]

San Antonio had 42/84 patients on vents in mid-April, 79/518 yesterday. Same general trend, but not nearly as dramatic.

There seems to be a real effort these days to keep people off ventilators as long as possible, since the vent survival rate is so low with COVID.

I remember seeing this story or pretty much the story on TV at the beginning of the below:
Inside look: San Antonio Methodist Hospital overwhelmed with COVID-19 patients

I bring it up since he talks about ECMO and briefly shows someone on it. At about 6:10, it talks about the harm can ventilators can do to COVID-19 patients. ECMO has been brought up a bunch of times at my work (my work has nothing to do w/medical field) for months by someone who's been following COVID-19, and yes, I did a search and saw some comments from real doctors in this thread on ECMO.

 

[SageBrush]

Even if it’s headed in the right direction - which would be excellent news, I hope it is - What other region has had a significant first peak and then had to move backwards in reopening?

I think you are focusing on a trivial detail.

My impression is that when SAH ended, American inability to behave SMART reasserted itself. Now that CA is behaving a bit more rationally during this epidemic they are seeing improvement. Closing of bars and inside dining are excellent infection control devices; I'm just not sure whether they will be enough without SMART behavior. My presumption is not, so I expect CA to do OK as SMART behavior becomes the norm and for the trumper states to show some improvement in a week or two from the business restrictions but to struggle to get Rt anywhere near 1.0 due to trumper behavior.

Regarding trumper states, it does seem to be true that they are willing politically to accept a much higher daily Covid-19 case load per capita if that is what it takes for them to keep businesses open. Of course, their ability to set Covid-19 on high but not have it burn the house down has so far not been evident.

California and other like-minded states will enforce SMART behavior along with targeted business closing and restrictions. Their populations will (eventually!) understand that SMART behavior is the price they have to pay to re-open and stay open until vaccination comes along. I kept saying here (for all the good it did me) that SAH was only an infection reset mechanism to give states time to introduce SMART behavior. Unfortunately the populace decided that SAH was a therapeutic measure and when it ended, they could return to 2019. As a corollary, SAH in the trumper states can be viewed as a failure and net negative intervention where Covid-19 was not high when SAH was instituted, and they failed to take advantage of the infection progression hiatus window to act differently when it ended. Something of a self-fulfilling prophecy.

I find the notion of 'Covid-19 fatigue' to be fascinating. The political presumption is that people will delay their gratification seeking for only so long. A much healthier approach is is to teach people that minor restrictions carry huge rewards. Done correctly, people might even demand a little more restriction in return for say ... a functioning economy.

 

[SageBrush]

Good job, you just made the argument FOR cloth masks, that would significantly reduce aerosolizing of the virus.

I'm not sure that is true. I understand civilian (non-HEPA level) masks as very effective in reducing droplets, but not aerosols. For the latter, ventilation is the key.

HEPA level masks can mitigate poor ventilation ... unless they are hugging someone's chin or sitting on a table while the person eats and drinks or joins a sing-a-long.

 

[renim]

obligatory beard link

To Beard or not to Beard? That’s a good Question! | | Blogs | CDC

Facial Hair and Respirator Fit: A Review of the Literature - PubMed
All but two of the fourteen studies found that in the presence of facial hair, face seal leakage increases from 20 times to 1000 times.

 

[wdolson]

obligatory beard link

To Beard or not to Beard? That’s a good Question! | | Blogs | CDC

Facial Hair and Respirator Fit: A Review of the Literature - PubMed
All but two of the fourteen studies found that in the presence of facial hair, face seal leakage increases from 20 times to 1000 times.

Hitler's style of mustache came about in WWI so soldiers could wear gas masks and get a good seal. In WWII there was already a push on for clean shaven in most militaries, but beards were definitely out for anyone flying and needing to wear an oxygen mask.

 

[renim]

Hopeful Prediction:
Melbourne Victoria (Oz) will include either a p1/p2/l3 disposable mask in the daily return price for enclosed public transport.

And attempt to make it included in taxi/uber fares also for Melbourne hot spots.

 

[Dr. J]

All but two of the fourteen studies found that in the presence of facial hair, face seal leakage increases from 20 times to 1000 times.

Is it fair to say this applies only to respirators and tight-fitting masks (like N95), and not to surgical masks which leak anyway?

 

[MXLRplus]

HCQ was tested and the results peer reviewed. When given early to people at highest risk, especially blacks with secondary conditions, it doubles the survival rate:

Hydroxychloroquine saved coronavirus patients' lives, Michigan study shows

 

[Webeevdrivers]

Yep.

I wish I could find the editorial that I'd read in the past few months (it might've been in the The Altantic, NY Times or Politico). It essentially said that in the past, the world would look to the US for how to handle major situations like this, esp. given the top scientists, CDC, research universities and healthcare system (well, except for the price and accessibility problems). But, obviously, our handling is NOT the one to be followed this time.

It seems like the role models for COVID-19 handling now include Taiwan, South Korea (after they got their massive spike under control) and New Zealand, to name a few.

Interesting CNN clip on Canada’s Approach.
CNN - Breaking News, Latest News and Videos

 

[linux-works]

 

[MXLRplus]

Interesting CNN clip on Canada’s Approach.
CNN - Breaking News, Latest News and Videos

What is that a link to? It just the DNC opinion page about electioneering. Canada is a little quip buried in the page with no sources.

The jury was undecided on HCQ. Now a significant peer-reviewed study of thousand of patients is showing promise.

Does that hurt your narrative? That we are all going to die if we don't elect somebody who lets his coke-addled devil spawn dictate US foreign policy with China?

 

[deonb]

I refuse to be anyone's slave and wear a mask. Most masks (short of maybe the N95) have no effect on stopping transmission of this flu-like virus (and the manufacturer of the most common mask even has a disclaimer as to how ineffectual the mask is against it). Abortion up to and including birth is an abominable and inhumane practice, as is the marketing and selling of fetal body parts (Planned Parenthood's cash cow). Gay marriage wasn't enough obviously because now we've moved onto to countless genders, drag queen story hour for children, and transgender restrooms (no matter what stage of transition you claim to be in). I wonder if you're as critical against the rioters and scores of protesters or are giving them a pass because most of them are wearing (ineffectual) masks. It's amazing that protesting is allowed but churchgoing is not. The hypocrisy is endless.

It's also hilarious that someone is still advocating for zero cases before restarting life again. In what universe is that possible short of a full-on totalitarian state? The resistance to the idea of herd immunity is also an interesting social study, as are those who made passes for governors deliberately infecting nursing homes (the people who are most susceptible to any respiratory illness).

If you want to make a good troll post, you need to stick with one kind of crazy.

Nobody can be this crazy about so many things at the same time and still be functioning enough to make the post. See Anthropic Principle.

 

[Webeevdrivers]

What is that a link to? It just the DNC opinion page about electioneering. Canada is a little quip buried in the page with no sources.

The jury was undecided on HCQ. Now a significant peer-reviewed study of thousand of patients is showing promise.

Does that hurt your narrative? That we are all going to die if we don't elect somebody who lets his coke-addled devil spawn dictate US foreign policy with China?

Link is to wrong page. My apologies. It was a story about the Canadian Strategy towards the Corona virus situation. I can’t seem to link the video and of course can not edit my post now. If it helps the story is called “this is how Canada crushed the curve”.

Again, my apologies.

 

[Webeevdrivers]

What is that a link to? It just the DNC opinion page about electioneering. Canada is a little quip buried in the page with no sources.

The jury was undecided on HCQ. Now a significant peer-reviewed study of thousand of patients is showing promise.

Does that hurt your narrative? That we are all going to die if we don't elect somebody who lets his coke-addled devil spawn dictate US foreign policy with China?

Sorry. The link is wrong and I have no idea what happened other than I suck at this.

I found the clip on you tube. This should work.

 

[linux-works]

If you want to make a good troll post, you need to stick with one kind of crazy.

Nobody can be this crazy about so many things at the same time and still be functioning enough to make the post. See Anthropic Principle.

perhaps elon has been posting here, all along, using an 'anon' alt?

 

[N5329K]

I refuse to be anyone's slave and wear a mask. Most masks (short of maybe the N95) have no effect on stopping transmission of this flu-like virus (and the manufacturer of the most common mask even has a disclaimer as to how ineffectual the mask is against it). Abortion up to and including birth is an abominable and inhumane practice, as is the marketing and selling of fetal body parts (Planned Parenthood's cash cow). Gay marriage wasn't enough obviously because now we've moved onto to countless genders, drag queen story hour for children, and transgender restrooms (no matter what stage of transition you claim to be in). I wonder if you're as critical against the rioters and scores of protesters or are giving them a pass because most of them are wearing (ineffectual) masks. It's amazing that protesting is allowed but churchgoing is not. The hypocrisy is endless.

It's also hilarious that someone is still advocating for zero cases before restarting life again. In what universe is that possible short of a full-on totalitarian state? The resistance to the idea of herd immunity is also an interesting social study, as are those who made passes for governors deliberately infecting nursing homes (the people who are most susceptible to any respiratory illness).

You have a binary choice. Fight the virus and limit its spread, or be a slave to the virus and set it free. All the rest is beside the point.
Robin