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So yeah, if those people that get sick are allowed to sue those people that don't comply with "common sense" guidelines and regulations designed for the safety of the population, perhaps we might see some of these attitudes change.

My 0.02.

Sure, but how would you prove who is the one to sue?

Masks are great. But it is even more important to stay away (6+ ft) from everyone not in your household.
Especially indoors
And you must minimize the duration of any violations of the above. And be wearing your mask.

You should not have enough time to get the name of any non-mask wearing idiot.
 
Mumps, measles, rubella...
The hard vaccines are the ones that haven't been done yet. SARS-CoV-2 is brand new so it may turn out to be easy.

Those have a respiratory component and are airborne diseases, but they do their work in other parts of the body. This page has a list of lung infections:
Respiratory Illnesses: 13 Types of Lung Infections

We do have a vaccine for whooping cough, but that's a bacterial infection. Work has been done on a MERS and SARS vaccine. The SARS vaccine can't be tested because no new human cases have been seen in over a decade.

Many people think coming up with a vaccine is like building a new highway, it might be expensive and take some time, but it is a well know procedure. Just about every new vaccine requires advancing medical science as the first step, then try a large number of approaches and hope one works. Then when a promising candidate comes to the fore, they have to do lots of testing first to see if it works on animals without side effects, then run several trials on humans in ever increasing population sizes. Not only are they looking to find a vaccine that prevents the disease, they are also concerned about side effects. To find a vaccine that protects you from the virus, but causes 10% of people who get it to have a fatal heart attack is too dangerous to use.

Studying a vaccine is also tough to do and takes a lot of time because it is unethical to expose someone who has been vaccinated to the virus (in the early days of vaccine research they did do this), so you have to rely on people encountering it in the wild. If someone gets the vaccine and doesn't get sick, you don't usually know if it's because they are now immune or if they never got exposed with enough of the pathogen to get sick if they haven't been vaccinated. We know that some people have been definitely exposed to COVID-19 through contact tracing, but never got infected. Through luck of the draw they didn't get the virus into the critical places to get the infection.

The early human trials of the COVID-19 vaccine are more looking for side effects than whether it works because there are too few people in the study to ensure many are going to be legitimately exposed.

Then once all the testing is done, scaling up production will take time. Coming up with enough doses to cover just the United States is a monumental task bigger than any previous vaccine roll out. It could take more than a year to scale up to enough doses to cover everyone.

The fastest a vaccine has ever been developed to date is 5 years start to full production. There is a lot of talk of shattering that record with a COVID vaccine, but that might just mean cutting the record in half.

We have some candidates now, which is very quick, but we have no idea how long immunity lasts if it does work. If the immunity is very short lived, like 2 months, it will be vastly more difficult to produce enough vaccines to cover everyone because it will require 6 shots a year per person and to cover a country like the United States requires 1.8 billion doses a year pretty much forever.

And what if the only vaccine that works costs a lot to make?

This could become a haves get the vaccine and the have nots are left to suffer and die.

Like most things these days, the US doesn't make many vaccines. 60% of world production is in India. To make a home grown vaccine is going to require rebuilding the expertise in this country to make vaccines again.

Most industrial processes include institutional knowledge that isn't written down anywhere. If you get the right people who know that institutional knowledge from somewhere else, you can flatten the learning curve, but the expert needs to teach a bunch of newbies how to do it and that takes time. Tesla suffered from this and didn't really get down the art of dinosaur car building tech (bend metal and welding it together) to a level on par with the rest of the industry until about a year after the Model 3 was in production. In many other areas the rest of the car industry is trying to catch up with Tesla on industrial knowledge, but Tesla had to learn some things the hard way.

Biological processes are probably more difficult to control effectively than a traditional production line. A minor contaminant in a batch of product being grown can ruin the whole batch and can literally kill people if not caught. Biological processes also involve a lot of waiting for things to happen at their own pace. Each year's flu vaccine has to be started a year before the first person gets vaccinated.

We may have a COVID vaccine and we may have it in record time. We may get lucky and it's both cheap and easy to produce. But we may not and it may be very difficult to produce and/or it may take years to come to market. There is also the possibility that we may never have a viable candidate for a vaccine.

Over the last 100 years we have managed to create vaccines for the worst of the diseases that have plagued humanity through most of our history. Most of the people here have lived their entire lives in the tiny blip of human history when the developed world really didn't have to worry that much about infectious diseases. People would get hair on fire when there was a measles outbreak or a few people caught the bubonic plague from some animal, but the real risk to most of us was small.

Last year there was a "major" measles outbreak in my county. I think something like 65 people got sick and there were a few cases spread around the region. Compare that to 1940 when there were 600,000 cases in the US. Even with anti-vaxers leaving their kids at risk, the magnitude of outbreaks is several magnitudes smaller than they used to be.

We have been lulled into thinking that medical science will always solve the problem and it will become a minor threat or none at all. We've done a pretty good job with the old diseases and some of the new ones like HIV/AIDS are in decline in many parts of the world (by driving the r number way down), but there is no guarantee that this one will be solvable with just a shot. It might be, but there is no guarantee.

We live in interesting times.
 
I know this sounds cruel to say but as long as ICU'S aren't at 85% or more capacity we shouldn't roll back stages of opening.
ICU capacity is a lagging indicator

Think about the implication:
ICU capacity 85% today, reflecting daily cases from ~ 5 days ago
Cases today 25 - 50 % higher than ~ 5 days ago. ICU crisis has been baked in.


Second, it is foolish to not take the growth rate into account.
You are making the mistake of the trumper Governors by not extrapolating forward
 
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Gotta say though, on a good and encouraging note, the fatality rate is less than half of what it was 2 months ago. No idea why, just good news.

Multifactorial and too early to say whether or not that lower case fatality rate will hold up. Need another 2 to 3 weeks to see emerging trends but I would throw out several factors: 1) as noted, 2+-3+ week lag between emergence of infection and fatal outcomes; 2) younger cohort; 3) modestly improved treatment algorithms that may reduce fatality.
 
I have criticized Arizona for obscuring the impact of Covid-19 on the hospitals in the way it reports data, and it is true in the graph I was looking at. However, other graphs released by the AZ DOH are much better so I change my assessment of them from an 'F' to a 'B-' -- and it is not an 'A' because I think the Covid-19 specifics should be presented front and center.

Curious about the impact of Covid-19 on the ICUs in AZ ? This graph tells the story, even looked at from a distance. The general hospital bed graph looks much the same. Arizona might have ~500 more ICU beds it can call into service if personnel are available. Covid-19 ICU bed occupancy is increasing at ~ 50 patients a day and accelerating.

I would ask trump how increased testing is causing this ICU utilization trend but he is no longer engaged, having decided that Covid-19 is not important enough, and certainly less important than a golf outing.

AZ ICU Covid Beds.png
 
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Happy July 4th, we just keep extending the Y axis. I remember when this graph topped out in the low 20s and we were discussing if I was reading something into it as we opened up and cases were rising but not enough to be painfully obvious.

New record of 93 cases positive on the same day, testing numbers are backlogged but hospitalization numbers are going up at a strong clip so this isn't just more testing finding what is already there.

upload_2020-7-5_10-26-10.png

upload_2020-7-5_10-30-14.png

upload_2020-7-5_10-41-57.png

upload_2020-7-5_10-48-23.png
 
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Very true, which is why if wearing a mask is worth doing, then it worth doing right with a respirator.

But faces are different, due to fit and comfort, we (old site) supplied disposable masks (p2 respirator) from 2 differing suppliers and a reusable (silicone) from a third.

But even so, ventilation is always ascendant over PPE as a control measure.

Not sure why you're on this anti-mask rant / jag in terms of your recent posting. You don't seem to realize that the issue is the cost-benefit ratio and for even simple cloth masks (let alone n95) it's actually a very good ratio. Masks are significantly protective around your exhalation of virus onto others, less protective around your inhalation. That means my mask wearing mostly protects you but protects me somewhat. Your mask wearing is more protective of my health on the other hand. Apparently those social reciprocities seem to escape you. Your argument is illogical in that taken to its extreme, we should all be walking around with face Shields and full PPE. That's not going to happen, and it's probably not necessary either in terms of getting control over this. Because mask wearing has been politicized in the United States along with social distancing and other mitigation measures, and Defiance of Common Sense epidemiological recommendations has become a political badge of honor for right-wing folks in this country, we now lead the world in covid-19 infections, and states that were previously under good control are now badly out of control.

In view of these undeniable realities my question is in what Universe therefore is mask wearing a bad idea or a poor option in places struggling with covid-19 spread?
 
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We have some candidates now, which is very quick, but we have no idea how long immunity lasts if it does work. If the immunity is very short lived, like 2 months, it will be vastly more difficult to produce enough vaccines to cover everyone because it will require 6 shots a year per person and to cover a country like the United States requires 1.8 billion doses a year pretty much forever.

You would just need to do it once inside of a 6 week period in a given zone with closed borders. The virus would die out quickly after that.

So countries can do a rolling vaccine where they do a 6 week vaccine pass, then open borders with other countries that have done the same.
 
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Deaths keep dropping. 254 on the 4th, 512 last Saturday and 582 on June 20th. Health crisis continues because of the amount of hospital patients remaining high. Deaths are less of a concern.
I know this sounds cruel to say but as long as ICU'S aren't at 85% or more capacity we shouldn't roll back stages of opening.
United States Coronavirus: 2,935,770 Cases and 132,318 Deaths - Worldometer
Holiday reporting is always down. Memorial Day was also down a bit more than 50% from the prior Monday.

States showing declines w/o new outbreaks (NY, MA, PA, etc.) are collectively at ~100 deaths/day now. Maybe they drop another 50/day, but I don't see them going to zero. States with recent outbreaks and flat or rising death rates (FL, TX, AZ, CA, etc.) are collectively at ~250 deaths/day. The rest are mostly stable, plus a few mixed cases like GA with deaths declining and a very recent outbreak.

We are near the tipping point, when outbreaks in new areas overwhelm declines in the early hotspots. We might have seen early signs -- e.g. this past Wednesday was up vs. the prior week. Same for the last weekend in June. Scott Gottlieb predicts multiple days over 1000 this week. I don't think it will jump that fast, but I do think the decline will stop in the next week or two.
 
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Or just different reporting mechanisms affected by the holidays to different degrees. Wait until Tuesday
Were I live (R.I.) they've closed some testing sites since there are so few cases. Tourists are all over our beaches (I know 6 that just came from California a day before 14 quarantine req) still very few cases. Restaurants open to 50% capacity, bars too. Something is different.
 
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I would ask trump how increased testing is causing this ICU utilization trend but he is no longer engaged, having decided that Covid-19 is not important enough, and certainly less important than a golf outing.

...

In California, the ICU beds are filing with Mexican migrants. They are 56% of the hospitalizations. Arizona might have the same porous border issue. Healthcare is not free in Mexico but it is in the US.

What do you believe Hillary would have done for Arizona? Obviously hindsight is better than 20/20, but let me know what the DNC has to offer that is so magical. Remember ALL our large city outbreaks are DNC hostage zones.
 
Were I live (R.I.) they've closed some testing sites since there are so few cases. Tourists are all over our beaches (I know 6 that just came from California a day before 14 quarantine req) still very few cases. Restaurants open to 50% capacity, bars too. Something is different.

This is how it starts, FYI. Good luck.

If community transmission gets started, look out!