Coronavirus

[linux-works]

republicans, in their current form, have no plan for covid. they gutted as much of the government as they could over the last few decades and now we're stuck here with no safety net and the only option they are giving us is 'die for our dow'.

if they didn't tie themselves to big religion (I remember it was around the reagan era) they'd have nothing to offer anyone, at this point. admit it, its the only big draw and its one that no one wants to publicly admit - but we all know its true.

the funding going to RELIGION ('why does god need funding?') just proves that the R party has nothing to offer and hides behind emotion. emotion? yes. religion is indoctrinated in the youth and the youth have no choice in the matter. whatever their parents believed is always forced on the young. almost no one questions it and its self-perpetuating. the R's learned this and figured that since their policies were really weak - lets attach ourselves to things that have such a primal emotive connection that you can't easily separate the two.

its very clever that the R's do this. its horrible - but its very clever. they get you, emotionally, and link themselves with jesus and the whole 'we are right, we know better, you must do as we do' mindset.

this is why people are refusing to follow rational rules like mask wearing. their emotional link between what they think is 'right and good' and the political party that co-opted religion - its too strong. they can't break it. they will argue, to their graves, for things that are not actually in their best self-interest.

moving forward, we should try to be the country we once were: separation of church and state. the mingling has gotton us in deep doo-doo. sooner we realize and reverse this cancer, the better.

until then, we'll be at each other's throats.

by design.

 

[ReddykwRun]

This is either proof of karma or perhaps even that there is a God! As the coronavirus crisis continues to spiral out of control, Trump Tower got a fitting front door decoration.

View attachment 562691

Do people actually watch that trash msnbc anymore" How do they keep the lights on?

 

[wdolson]

That was 60 years ago. Hopefully there have been a few developments since then to try to prevent things like this. The biggest question for me is how much damage has been done to the FDA, NIH and the CDC in the past 3 1/2 years that might weaken the ability to find problems. My wife keeps telling me she will do everything she can to get whatever vaccine comes out first. I on the other hand have a Signature X so I learned that going first with cutting edge is not always the safest idea.

There are plenty of more recent examples and not just within the US.
List of withdrawn drugs - Wikipedia

In the US specifically a lot of the regulatory agencies were corrupted before the current administration and this administration has just corrupted them more. The CDC 4 years ago was the world's go to agency for the best information on disease control and prevention, but during the COVID outbreak countries have been giving up on the CDC and this thread has discussed some of the ways the CDC appears to be compromised.

A few weeks ago I heard a story on the BBC radio news (carried on our local NPR station) that went to Jordan and was looking at how Jordan was dealing with COVID. The health minister said that when the MERS outbreak happened, the US CDC was one of their most valuable resources for help, but with COVID, if they get any information for the CDC at all, it's wrong. Most of the time they don't reply or even pick up the phone.

On top of that governments around the world are putting tremendous pressure on vaccine developers to come up with a vaccine yesterday and there is a massive payday for any companies that bring a viable vaccine to market.

Look at what happened in the US with COVID testing and antibody testing. A lot of poor quality tests came to market because many approval steps were being bypassed and lots of companies were throwing their products on the market to make a quick buck.

On top of that there has been much discussion here about all the difficulties coming up with a safe and effective vaccine in the best of times with all the normal steps being followed.

The conditions are there for a perfect storm producing a vaccine that is either ineffective or actually dangerous.

No vaccine would make it out of testing with a 3% fatality rate. No vaccine would make it out of testing with a 0.01% fatality rate (above baseline). It's one of those hard stops that they pull vaccines early for.

What if the 3% fatality rate wasn't seen for a few years after the vaccine came to market? Most of the drugs that were withdrawn for being dangerous the danger wasn't detected until a year or more after coming to market. A lot of withdrawn drugs were withdrawn because they increased cancer risks.

You are comparing morning sickness to Covid-19.

Not too smart

You need to reread what I wrote. I was not comparing the diseases, I was comparing the drugs prescribed. A vaccine has differences from a medication used to treat a condition or symptoms, but both go through the same sort of regulatory approval process before getting to market that are intended to show they are safe. But that regulatory process is not 100% effective in preventing hazardous drugs from making it to market.

As I outlined above, between the corruption in the system and the intense pressure to produce a vaccine, the likelihood of a vaccine proving dangerous at some point in the future is higher than for most drugs coming to market. Each person can choose for themselves what to do when a vaccine becomes available, but I'm going to be cautious. It's highly likely that a vaccine is going to be strictly rationed for some time after becoming available because it will take time to spool up production and this will become the largest vaccination effort (in a short time) in history.

 

[linux-works]

Do people actually watch that trash msnbc anymore" How do they keep the lights on?

1/10

try again for better troll-ness.

 

[SageBrush]

I was not comparing the diseases

You were, you just do not realize it.

I told you already that the safety profile of a drug can only be evaluated in the context of the disease it is treating. If that were not the case, there would be ZERO cancer drugs since they are quite toxic. If you say that a vaccine might be as unsafe and the drugs you mention (DES and Thalidomide) and so you avoid the vaccine in the same way you would avoid DES or Thalidomide, you are saying that the diseases they treat are equal risks.

Ergo, morning sickness = Covid-19

As I outlined above, between the corruption in the system and the intense pressure to produce a vaccine, the likelihood of a vaccine proving dangerous at some point in the future is higher than for most drugs coming to market.

This "reasoning" is a mixture of ignorance and phobia. Again, dangerous is a matter of context. Do you think Covid-19 is dangerous ? As for your ranting, do you really have any idea at all how many people are treated, and for how long before routine meds are FDA approved ? Can you compare to phase III Covid-19 vaccine trials ?

 

[wdolson]

You were, you just do not realize it.

I told you already that the safety profile of a drug can only be evaluated in the context of the disease it is treating. If that were not the case, there would be ZERO cancer drugs since they are quite toxic. If you say that a vaccine might be as unsafe and the drugs you mention (DES and Thalidomide) and so you avoid the vaccine in the same way you would avoid DES or Thalidomide, you are saying that the diseases they treat are equal risks.

Ergo, morning sickness = Covid-19

I also talked about the problems with the early polio vaccine.

 

[ZeApelido]

Daily New Deaths updated.

 

[dfwatt]

Do people actually watch that trash msnbc anymore" How do they keep the lights on?

Haven't you heard? They get paid to troll right-wing nut jobs like you! just like Fox & Friends trolls the other side of the political Spectrum.

 

[ReddykwRun]

There was a report on that I saw a couple of days ago. A study showed that what brought COVID into the nursing homes was infected employees not elderly people released from the hospital after recovery.

I have a neighbor who works in a nursing home and now she has the virus. Working on the front lines.

 

[ReddykwRun]

I BET HER MIDDLE NAME KAREN

A woman who claimed to be a teacher assaulted a man and spit in his face when he took his mask off while exiting a Costco store in Illinois, police said.

Elizabeth Mach, 45, allegedly approached a 50-year-old man after he removed his face covering while leaving a Costco store in Mettawa in Lake County, on June 16, the Sheriff’s Office announced Thursday.

Police said Mach slammed her shopping cart into the stranger and told him to put his mask back on because he hadn’t fully exited the store.

“I am a schoolteacher and I have COVID-19,” Mach allegedly told him, before taking her mask off and spitting in the man’s face, police said. She left the store but was later identified by police, who arrested her on Wednesday.

Mach was charged with battery and disorderly conduct and released later that day after posting 10 percent of the $40,000 bond imposed by the judge, police said. She is due back in court on July 29. It is unclear if she did actually have COVID-19.

 

[deonb]

Do people actually watch that trash msnbc anymore" How do they keep the lights on?

So you're thinking that MSNBC photoshopped the black lives matter in front of Trump Tower and it's all fake news?

Ok, well, fine, here's a link from what you would consider to be a more more "trust-worthy" source:
Curtis Hill: Black Lives Matter movement should prioritize Black fatherhood to improve Black lives

because Fox will NEVER create fake content right... ?

 

[bkp_duke]

What if the 3% fatality rate wasn't seen for a few years after the vaccine came to market? Most of the drugs that were withdrawn for being dangerous the danger wasn't detected until a year or more after coming to market. A lot of withdrawn drugs were withdrawn because they increased cancer risks.

Again, NOT POSSIBLE.

SAFETY is the entire point of Phase 1 clinical trials, and they would certainly pick up a 3% mortality rate.

Additionally, this is not some new design drug, this is a vaccine, something we have been perfecting for about 100 years. You see vaccine recalls now for VERY nuanced things, not for gross misses like mortality.

 

[SageBrush]

because Fox will NEVER create fake content right... ?

I don't think you are going to convince the troll of the day. To him all terrorists look identical. In fact, they may be clones produced at the secret Jewish industrial complex code named "Wall Street" where they use god fearing white christians as slaves with Covid mind control

 

[bkp_duke]

I also talked about the problems with the early polio vaccine.

Which is even worse than comparing a horse and buggy, missing one wheel, to a Tesla. The Polio vaccine was state of the art when released in . . . 1935.


EDIT - 1955, not 1935.

 

[jerry33]

Which is even worse than comparing a horse and buggy, missing one wheel, to a Tesla. The Polio vaccine was state of the art when released in . . . 1935.

Is that a typo? I thought it was not available till the mid 1950s? say, 1955?

 

[bkp_duke]

Is that a typo? I thought it was not available till the mid 1950s? say, 1955?

Yes, sorry. I have a tendency to "over" multitask. 1955. Full history here:
Polio vaccine - Wikipedia

 

[SageBrush]

 

[wdolson]

Again, NOT POSSIBLE.

SAFETY is the entire point of Phase 1 clinical trials, and they would certainly pick up a 3% mortality rate.

Additionally, this is not some new design drug, this is a vaccine, something we have been perfecting for about 100 years. You see vaccine recalls now for VERY nuanced things, not for gross misses like mortality.

They aren't going to delay rollout of the vaccine for a year to see if people develop something a year after getting it.

 

[dfwatt]

View attachment 563108

I thought it was spelled "Morans"?

We had a serious Gap in our orders for a month until Google started auto correcting "Moran Spray" to "Moron Spray." We were almost out of business!

 

[SageBrush]

They aren't going to delay rollout of the vaccine for a year to see if people develop something a year after getting it.

No, "they" are going to test in numbers large enough to simulate years of testing.

Would you please get a clue ?