Coronavirus

[TespaceX]

Also, there should be a point made about wearing masks properly: I see far too many wearing masks with their nose sticking out.

Amen!

I try to avoid walking by people who do this. Better than nothing, but closer to nothing (for me).

 

[linux-works]

Alright, but consider this:
The fewer police there are, the more citizens will arm themselves. We are already seeing that pan out, with deadly consequences.

I don't believe that.

the cops are primarily there for 'clean-up' and not to provide a presence and certainly not to save you if you are in danger. the surpremes established - much to the surprise of most americans - that the cops do NOT have to help you, save your life, try to save your life, protect you - none of that. so the protect-and-serve is a myth. there's that.

then there's the likelihood that you call a cop and something goes sideways and you (or someone you care about) ends up much much worse off. it happens a LOT - far too much to laugh off.

and finally, the entrance for cops is quite low. new london CT had a famous case were a guy wanted to be a cop and scored too high - and they rejected him for being too smart (essentially). its established and its how it works at most cop shops. ask your relatives and if they are honest, they'll admit it.

too many things wrong. I didn't want to get into it, but there it is. I have reasons for all my assertions, here. this is based on countless reports that come from real people, not left or right news media.

find me some evidence where cops actually increase safety. find me actual proof of this and not hand waving.

 

[linux-works]

Alright, but consider this:
The fewer police there are, the more citizens will arm themselves. We are already seeing that pan out, with deadly consequences.

the way cops shoot, the average gun owner is not all that far behind; and in fact, an enthusiast may actually be better.

cops often are in the news emptying their guns and still not hitting the target.

cops with guns do not increase society's safety. almost every country IN THE WORLD knows this. but US. we think we're special.

 

[bkp_duke]

the way cops shoot, the average gun owner is not all that far behind; and in fact, an enthusiast may actually be better.

cops often are in the news emptying their guns and still not hitting the target.

cops with guns do not increase society's safety. almost every country IN THE WORLD knows this. but US. we think we're special.

A point we can agree upon for sure. I would like to see more non-lethal methods for subduing suspects.

But I don't agree with the current political movement pushing to disband police forces. That will only cause crime to skyrocket. We already have seen a large uptick in CA even before COVID-19 when the law was changed to make thefts below $950 petty misdemeanors. Criminals are not stupid, contrary to popular opinion.

 

[N5329K]

CV-19 and microthrombi. Autopsy studies demonstrate this is definitely not the flu:

Robin

 

[linux-works]

I'm not sure I agree that the break-in of model 3's (for example) can really be blamed on the $950 threshold for misdemeanors. I don't think that enters into it at all. basically, NO one gets caught or arrested for car breakins. they break glass, they grab, they leave. what point is there in high or low fines when its basically impossible to 'police' this crime?

I WOULD be in favor of watchmen (whatever you want to call them) in every parking lot, with radios and maybe more toys. not armed, but at least THERE to deter. presence can help deter much more than absence and cops are simply not walking the beat anymore. and 'the beat' is too large in some areas, so it was never feasable to walk/watch it.

smash and grab is a crime of opportunity and the criminals know that they have a really good chance of not getting caught. given that, the fine or jail structure is not relevant.

 

[TheTalkingMule]

Crime increases with poverty. Petty crime increases with drug addiction, which increases with poverty.

Wealth and income inequality has never been higher in our lifetimes. TaKe a drive through north Philadelphia for 10 minutes and this conversation will seem foolish.

 

[bkp_duke]

I'm not sure I agree that the break-in of model 3's (for example) can really be blamed on the $950 threshold for misdemeanors. I don't think that enters into it at all. basically, NO one gets caught or arrested for car breakins. they break glass, they grab, they leave. what point is there in high or low fines when its basically impossible to 'police' this crime?

Forget model 3. Let's talk something you might have evidence for - package theft. Which is up tremendously after Prop 47 passed.

It means that there are now so many of these kinds of crimes, that even when presented with video evidence (i.e. someone stealing a package off your doorstep and having concrete proof via a camera), the district attorney won't pursue charges because there is no "bite" to the law. No consequences significant enough to deter the crime.

Prop. 47 is linked to increase in auto thefts, study says.

California Property Crime Surge Is Unintended Consequence of Proposition 47 | Lawrence J. McQuillan

 

[shinytop]

Trump's Florida puppet is speaking now about Covid. He is bragging about testing and spinning results. Not changing anything concrete like closing beaches or mandated mask wearing. Big ass.

 

[TespaceX]

Trump's Florida puppet is speaking now about Covid. He is bragging about testing and spinning results. Not changing anything concrete like closing beaches or mandated mask wearing. Big ass.

That’s about the only thing I hear him ever talk about. “We’re doing incredible amount of testing. Testing numbers are way up. We’re doing more testing, blah blah.”

 

[dfwatt]

More questions about long term immunity

Immunity to Covid-19 could be lost in months, UK study suggests

"People who have recovered from Covid-19 may lose their immunity to the disease within months, according to research suggesting the virus could reinfect people year after year, like common colds.
In the first longitudinal study of its kind, scientists analysed the immune response of more than 90 patients and healthcare workers at Guy’s and St Thomas’ NHS foundation trust and found levels of antibodies that can destroy the virus peaked about three weeks after the onset of symptoms then swiftly declined."
...
"But Prof Arne Akbar, an immunologist at UCL, said antibodies are only part of the story. There is growing evidence, he said, that T cells produced to fight common colds can protect people as well. Those patients who fight the virus with T cells may not need to churn out high levels of antibodies, he added."

-------------------------

But I guess only time and more studies will tell.

It's that second paragraph that's added as an understated by-the-way notion about drawing conclusions on falling antibody levels that should be in bold print. There is every reason to believe that intact T-cell functioning may provide a very rapid ramp into an adaptive in other words antibody mediated response to re-presentation of the virus. Again this is all theoretical. We still don't have really any systematic data. And the couple of anecdotal case reports about reinfection are not useful as a basis for drawing any conclusions either. This is where science can be really frustrating because we all want answers and guess what we have to wait until we can collect decent data and figure it out.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

Here's a good model you can use for FL fatalities which are incoming. Looks like he does a good job of correcting for right censoring. The devil is in the details, of course, but I think it likely gives a good estimate of approximately what will happen over the next 18 days. There are still some issues with things like variable case-to-death lag over the entire course of the pandemic, but with some possible shifts in the data, I think it's likely going to be pretty close. I definitely expect over 100 deaths a day in FL consistently by the end of this week.

mbevand/florida-covid19-line-list-data

Associated discussion:

https://twitter.com/zorinaq/status/1282050371188211712?s=20

He is bragging about testing and spinning results.

That’s about the only thing I hear him ever talk about. “We’re doing incredible amount of testing. Testing numbers are way up. We’re doing more testing, blah blah.”

Testing WILL help. AZ is apparently flattening a bit, in spite of not having done much. Part of that is probably due to testing volume pulling more cases out of the population. And human behavior changes of course. AZ is 1-2 weeks ahead of FL. FL is probably doing less to counter the outbreak, though, I agree. We'll see how much increased testing can help put the brakes on things. Doesn't help much if it takes 3 days to get a result, of course.

 

[SageBrush]

Yes saw something like this about Fauci yesterday. What a sad person. His typical “if you don’t support me I’ll destroy you“ tactic no less. Totally expected move from him. Like I said, sad person.

We just got a text from a trumper relative, neither of the couple believes in wearing masks despite both having known underlying conditions. The wife was just admitted* to hospital this morning with “pneumonia” and told her numbers are bad. They also have a friend who has been living with them for a while who also has similar beliefs about the hoax so this could be very bad for all of them.
* still sitting in ER waiting to get assigned a room.

I consider it an inefficient use of resources, but I suppose one way to clean up the trumper mess is to put them all in hospitals. They can fight over the beds

 

[wdolson]

IIRC, Fauci is one of the senior directors of the NIH. The trump clown can froth all he wants, he cannot fire Fauci.

Can Trump fire Fauci? Technically, no - CNNPolitics

Yes, technically he can't be fired, but he can be sidelined. BTW, little interesting factoid, Stephen Colbert's father was an MD and worked as a director in the same division as Fauci.

In all fairness, I more than made up for the loss in state tax write-offs with the overall decreased fed tax rate. I understand that wasn't the case for everyone in blue states, but for our family, it was a net positive (by 5 figures).

My taxes went down, but it was predominantly because my income went down. The trade war with China cut 25% off my income and it hasn't come back. My primary customer exports their products and they had a lot of customers in China.

A point we can agree upon for sure. I would like to see more non-lethal methods for subduing suspects.

But I don't agree with the current political movement pushing to disband police forces. That will only cause crime to skyrocket. We already have seen a large uptick in CA even before COVID-19 when the law was changed to make thefts below $950 petty misdemeanors. Criminals are not stupid, contrary to popular opinion.

The city of Eugene, OR has had a team of EMTs and social workers who deal with a lot of things dealt with by police in other cities and it works well. When someone is having a mental health crisis, having someone show up armed to the teeth can escalate the problem, whereas a social worker can usually do a better job calming down the situation. Some other cities are now experimenting with the program.

As a society we do need police, but we need to rethink a lot of ways we're going about it.

Some of the misunderstandings with the "defund the police" movement has to do with the hideous job the left tends to do when it comes to branding. There are some people who literally want to eliminate police entirely (which is an idiotic idea), but others talking about defunding the police actually mean reallocating the resources going to police to start programs like Eugene's in which some duties now done by police are done by unarmed people with better training for those tasks.

I think rethinking policing is a good idea at this point. We have way too many police shootings of innocent people and general distrust of police in many places. After 9/11 there was a big push to militarize the police and many police departments got military equipment. Some were departments which had almost zero chance of ever having a terrorist incident.

Additionally there are some bad cops out there. The cop who shot and killed Tamir Rice had been fired from another police department for being too trigger happy. Personally I think we should do away with qualified immunity, or weaken it quite a bit and require that cops carry malpractice insurance like attorneys and doctors. Attorneys and doctors are quick to want to get rid of bad apples in their ranks because lawsuits for malpractice make everyone's insurance premiums go up.

At least that's the case with all the lawyers I know. All are paranoid about getting sued and that helps keep the ones that might want to stray more in line. And most attorneys want the shady ones gone.

A national database of cops that new employers could check would also be a good idea. Laws that open jurisdictions to liability if they hire a bad cop with a record in the database and that cop does something would help curb the common practice now of bad cops getting fired and finding a job soon after in another police force.

But this is sort of a tangent from the topic at hand.

 

[SageBrush]

What do people think about mask wearing being made mandatory in public, enforced by police & fines issued?

You mean what should have obviously been done since February ?

 

[SageBrush]

I think rethinking policing is a good idea at this point. We have way too many police shootings of innocent people and general distrust of police in many places. After 9/11 there was a big push to militarize the police and many police departments got military equipment. Some were departments which had almost zero chance of ever having a terrorist incident.

I'll post my thoughts on this, but fair warning: my wife hates my opinion:

Society will never change the basic fact that security organizations are authoritarian, if not fascist, in nature. The best we can do is to root out the most extreme elements. The US police is infiltrated by and infested with despicable white nationalists. Beyond that however, the root cause of the 'shoot first, don't ask questions' policy of police is the widespread gun ownership by the citizenry. Police are going to look after themselves, and in the USA today every citizen is presumed armed and dangerous. The disproportionate killings of non-whites is just some racism and racial profiling layered on top.

 

[jerry33]

The city of Eugene, OR has had a team of EMTs and social workers who deal with a lot of things dealt with by police in other cities and it works well. When someone is having a mental health crisis, having someone show up armed to the teeth can escalate the problem, whereas a social worker can usually do a better job calming down the situation. Some other cities are now experimenting with the program.

Agree with this. In addition, I like the way Canada does policing. The big problem in the U.S. is that every city is responsible for their own police force, and most just can't afford it, so they have minimum qualifications, minimum or no training, and the policeperson doesn't have much support or a career path. In Canada a city can either roll their own, hire Mounties, or even a combination of the two. In practice most large cities either hire their own or have a combination, and most small towns rent the Mounties. The good thing about this is that every RCMP officer has training, a career path, and can be relocated. Also because the standard is high, any city that rolls their own had better have policing at the same high standard or the Mayor and City Council will get voted out quickly. The goal is that people should not be more afraid of the police than they are of the criminals. Sadly, that's not the case in America today.

 

[linux-works]

Forget model 3. Let's talk something you might have evidence for - package theft. Which is up tremendously after Prop 47 passed.

I just don't see any correlation with 'severity' of jail sentences and the total lack of thinking that petty criminals exhibit.

they are not known for forward-thinking; you can make the jail sentence 10x and that is simply NOT a deterrent. the tough-on-crime stuff HAS NOT BEEN WORKING. we put more people in jail than any other country and that has not helped us be safer. not at all. we can jail 2x as many people and our 'safety' would not change. there are other things at play, its a very complex problem and not linked to just a few variables.

increased police presence has some effect but not a big one. and fines and jail time don't matter to criminals.

fix the inequity (which is a HARD problem but has a bigger payback) and we fix most of the other ills we are suffering. when you feel you have zero chance in life, you just don't CARE about rules and laws. but we don't want to fix that; that would be leveling the playing field and sorry to say, the R's will NEVER EVER allow that. they'll die first.

 

[S4WRXTTCS]

You mean what should obviously been done since February ?

I agree with them being mandatory like in WA State where you're supposed to wear a mask inside a public place, and outside if you can't maintain 6ft+ distance.

The question comes down to whether it needs to be enforced or not.

I would argue that you don't really need to as long as the leadership itself is on board with it. It's kind of ridiculous to enforce mask wearing when the president or some state governor refuses to wear a mask.

The vast majority of people will behave according to who they identify with. So if you have all the leaders on board with mask wearing then you don't really need to enforce it aside from low hanging fruit type enforcement like fining companies that don't enforce mask wearing by employees or customers. Things of that nature.

I've worn a mask at a grocery store as soon as mask wearing hit around 50%. At the time I felt like the evidence had reached a point where the greater good meant more than my own "you live you live, and if you die to you die" take on life. That's pretty typical of me where I have average or slightly below average empathy levels along with wanting to trim the population size (preferably through less breeding and not early death).

When it became mandatory in my state the mask wearing went from around 33% (the rate fell because I think people thought it was over) to around 95%. Then WA state went from mandatory to telling stores to deny service to people without a mask. So it went from 95% to 100% on my last visit a couple hours ago.

The only time I can see cops ever being involved is breaking up gatherings. But, I'd rather see water dropping drones after verbal warnings.

 

[madodel]

Sign sparks outrage at Union County grocery store
Owner of a grocery store posts a sign saying to respect "respect people inside the store who choose to wear a mask as well as those who choose not to wear one." and "A lot of these same people support LGBTQ. This lifestyle is a sin in God's eyes and spreads deadly diseases and sickness. Are they really concerned about people's health???"