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Back to coronavirus - I want everyone to remember when the debate about "costs of healthcare in the USA" come up to remember this pandemic.

Our population is making STUPID choices, just like they have on preventive medicine (vaccines), and on exercise (we are a fat nation). ALL of this makes us a very unique population that results in much more expensive care than other countries. It's not the only factor, but it really is a VERY large factor in cost.

That, and our "do everything possible to save me" mentality once we are hospitalized.

@NikolaACDC - you marked this as "Disagree". Care to share with us your reasons why?
 
Scratching my head over this:

Trump says U.S. would have half the number of coronavirus cases if it did half the testing

“Think of this, if we didn’t do testing, instead of testing over 40 million people, if we did half the testing we would have half the cases,” Trump said at a press conference at the White House. “If we did another, you cut that in half, we would have, yet again, half of that. But the headlines are always testing.”

How does doing half the number of tests equate to half as many people positive in reality? The people are still out there positive whether you test for them or not....not only out there but without being tested and knowing they are positive so going about life passing on the infection to others and increasing the number of people who do have it, having their health compromised and many hospitalized and dying too. Really basic understanding here. Makes me wonder about the veracity of the SAT test statement Mary made in her book.


Wow. I think people on this forum have really missed the ball on this one. Your stable genius leader (who would have made a brilliant doctor) has come up with the cure for cancer and you guys just can't see it.

Simply stop testing for cancer and you have no cases! Problem solved and what's more all those billions spent researching a cure
can be spent on MAGA hats. America will once again lead the world in the fields of Health, Medicine and General Greatness.

What could possibly go wrong?

Of course "Cause of death : Other" will increase, some might say quite a lot. However, we all know that its always "Others" fault.
 
Wow. I think people on this forum have really missed the ball on this one. Your stable genius leader (who would have made a brilliant doctor) has come up with the cure for cancer and you guys just can't see it.

Simply stop testing for cancer and you have no cases! Problem solved and what's more all those billions spent researching a cure
can be spent on MAGA hats. America will once again lead the world in the fields of Health, Medicine and General Greatness.

What could possibly go wrong?

Of course "Cause of death : Other" will increase, some might say quite a lot. However, we all know that its always "Others" fault.

Actually a lot of us have been chronic admirers of the Stable Genius for years. Search Moron Spray in this forum. My business is booming because of his Orangeness. We are so backlogged with orders it's not even funny.
 
Actually a lot of us have been chronic admirers of the Stable Genius for years. Search Moron Spray in this forum. My business is booming because of his Orangeness. We are so backlogged with orders it's not even funny.

I think you could do very good business over here in the UK too. We have milder less aggressive but still dangerous cases here.
You probably haven't heard about the "The test is in the post" case. It promoted chronic overinflation of numbers which proved difficult to treat. Also, masks are only now becoming required for shops etc which might have something to do with us being pretty much the worst-hit country (not) in Europe.
 
@NikolaACDC - you marked this as "Disagree". Care to share with us your reasons why?

The cost of Covid - in the US larger than necessary because of the Clowns playing government - has no impact on the fact that for a long time already the US spends the most on healthcare (as % of GDP).

And while the fatties in the country do increase the amount of money that's spent on healthcare it is not the major contributor to the huge spending.

It's a couple to a few hundred billion dollars in extra cost.
The 2019 estimates for US healthcare spending seem to be ~$3.6 Trillion.
So that's ~10% for the obesity problem.

And it's not like other western countries are all that much slimmer.
I think currently the US numbers for adults are ~80% overweight or worse. ~40% of the population are obese.
For the UK the numbers from 2018 are 63% / 31%.
Canada seems to be roughly 60% / 26%.
Australia at 67% / 31%
Germany about 60% / 25%

So they also have increased healthcare costs due to obesity. Just not quite as much as the US.

The major reason that the US spends so much is that the healthcare system is convoluted and inefficient and designed to maximize profit. Not to keep the population healthy.
 
The cost of Covid - in the US larger than necessary because of the Clowns playing government - has no impact on the fact that for a long time already the US spends the most on healthcare (as % of GDP).

And while the fatties in the country do increase the amount of money that's spent on healthcare it is not the major contributor to the huge spending.

It's a couple to a few hundred billion dollars in extra cost.
The 2019 estimates for US healthcare spending seem to be ~$3.6 Trillion.
So that's ~10% for the obesity problem.

And it's not like other western countries are all that much slimmer.
I think currently the US numbers for adults are ~80% overweight or worse. ~40% of the population are obese.
For the UK the numbers from 2018 are 63% / 31%.
Canada seems to be roughly 60% / 26%.
Australia at 67% / 31%
Germany about 60% / 25%

So they also have increased healthcare costs due to obesity. Just not quite as much as the US.

The major reason that the US spends so much is that the healthcare system is convoluted and inefficient and designed to maximize profit. Not to keep the population healthy.


Cite sources please. Otherwise we have to take your word for this, and we all know that won't fly on an internet forum.
 
The Phase I results of the Moderna RNA vaccine have been published in the unrestricted access part of NEJM.
https://www.nejm.org/doi/suppl/10.1056/NEJMoa2022483/suppl_file/nejmoa2022483_appendix.pdf

Good News
Good Antibody formation, including the presumed important neutralizing antibodies (meaning anti-spike)

The Cellular T cell response is mixed
Good Th1 activation
No Th2 or Ts activation

My immunobiology is strained here. I'll have to refresh my memory to be sure but I'm less confident of the vaccine efficacy after reading the T cell data. I'll try to track down T cell profile data from natural infections. If anyone has links, please post.

Addendum: This Nature article summarizes some basic research on the T cell response to natural infection. Most patients have a Th1 phenotype and a Ts expansion.
 
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That is actually a brilliant video disguised as some kind of Stoner Comedy. Absolutely exposes why the United States is leading the world in coronavirus cases, trumpism, AR-15 Mania, and a whole bunch of interlinked social ills. Everybody on this forum should watch that video.

video was good. jeff spicoli would be proud.

I don't see it as stoner, though. its just 'surfer dude' 'tude ;)

"get ready to run"

yeah. challenge some 'deeply held beliefs' and you are taking your life into your hands.
 
one of the argument for forcing kids back to school is that not everyone has good internet access (and equipment) at home.

you know, this is a pathetically EASY problem to solve. damn. its very little money to upgrade peoples' home network plans (a leadership government would declare this an essential utility and mandate ALL citizens have price-capped modern broadband access, but that's for another thread). and its also not much money to provide desktops (not even saying laptops) from even 2 years ago's tech (refurbs, perfectly fine) to those that need them.

there should be plenty of money in the US budget for stuff like this. hey, don't buy 2 or 3 tanks or stuff like that - bingo - money for kids and schools!

then, there is no excuse for 'distance learning wont work'. it does work and it can work.

again, we just don't want the 'poors' to have nice things, so we hold back on the simple solution.

Most suburban middle class and wealthy kids can probably do learning from home just fine. Their families have enough wealth to provide them with the computing equipment and internet access to have a decent learning experience. Washington and Oregon have had virtual academies for 1-12 learning for over a decade now and it works.

However there are multiple reasons some kids will not be able to learn from home. I saw an interview with a special ed teacher who specializes in teaching autistic kids. She said distance learning has been a disaster for most of these kids. The kids lower on the spectrum probably like distance learning better if they have the equipment, but the more severely disabled kids need a human being in the room with them working with them.

Poor kids also aren't able to learn from home for many reasons. Some may have access to broadband internet, but they may not have the equipment at home and giving them the equipment they need might not work because in some households, it would just be stolen. Another thing is that while most middle class and upper class families put a high value on education and will work to tailor the home environment to give the kids space to learn, that isn't true in all poor families (some poor families stress education, but some don't). In the households that don't, the kids are not going to get the space they need to learn.

If you want to see examples of this, either read Hillbilly Eulogy or watch the season of The Wire about education. The former is about the chaos of poor small town white kids in Appalachia and the latter is about inner city African American kids, but the chaos both deal with while trying to learn has similarities.

And as you and others touched on, rural internet can be poor. Where my sister lives their only option for broadband is satellite internet and their latencies are 170ms. But that's geostationary, Starlink has the potential to be faster, though you're going to be constantly switching from satellite to satellite which could cause dropped packets and latency. Knowing Elon, he has probably worked that out.

again, the tech is stupid simple to install/upgrade (at the carriers, etc). there are lots of ways to extend broadband; I used to work at an RF networking company that did tower-to-tower data relays for carriers and we had amazing performance and the cost was not outrageous, either. but, well, NO telco wants to spend money. they are more cheap-ass than car companies (and that's saying a lot).

if the feds came down and forced all telcos to act more like utilities, we'd have this solved.

do people not have electricity? not have plumbing and hot and cold running water? sewage? mail deliveries?

why OH WHY is internet not in that catagory?

Politics. Politicians who represent rural areas don't want to see high speed broadband in their areas because people will start getting their news from a wider variety of sources and they won't be locked into cable/satellite news channels that tout messages favorable to them.

Barack Obama kept getting blocked with implementation. Here is just one story. There are stories of his talking about this almost every year of his administration:
President Obama presses for high-speed Internet for rural Americans
 
.

If you want to see examples of this, either read Hillbilly Eulogy or watch the season of The Wire about education. The former is about the chaos of poor small town white kids in Appalachia and the latter is about inner city African American kids, but the chaos both deal with while trying to learn has similarities.

'the wire' is an amazing show and has gotton to be a must-watch for pop culture references.

it seriously is must-watch. it says a lot, in that show. and its entertaining - coming from a person who can't stand most tv and even most modern movies.
 
She's still at it

San Diego woman wants half of $100K raised for Starbucks barista following mask dispute

"Now, Gilles believes she is entitled to half of the cash, KGTV reported Tuesday.

"It was discrimination, and everybody is OK with it and enabling and rewarding that behavior," she told the news outlet.

Gilles, who previously told KNSD that she is considering suing Cowan, added that she has contacted attorneys, but they all charge too much. She said she hopes to raise money with her own crowdfunding campaign, KGTV reported.

Gilles also claimed that she can't wear a mask because she experiences symptoms such as shortness of breath, dizziness, asthma and mask acne, according to KGTV. She went on to show KGTV documentation from a 2015 pelvic exam, as well as a note from a chiropractor saying that Gilles "has underlying breath conditions that prevent her from wearing a mask." The chiropractor declined to discuss Gilles with the news station."

------------
How deluded do you have to be to think any of that money should or will be yours?
 
I have not found what the performance is going to look like. ping times. ping streams. bandwidth is rarely the issue, for many of us, but its about latency. when we WFH and we are VPN'd in to work, our keystrokes go all the way in, to a server at work then the screen updates and key echo comes all the way back. latency is what makes this style of work really sluggish.

for pure streaming, you can just add buffersize but for interaction, you need short distances to the backbone and satellite has a distance problem that you can't get around (speed of light).

Actually, yes and no. Currently east-coast to west-coast you're already dealing with 50ms of roundtrip latency with ideal fiber, and in practice it's closer to 85ms.

Initially StarLink will introduce a 15ms to 25ms latency overhead up and down to their nearest fiber backbone.

But they plan in phase two to introduce a direct Satellite-to-Satellite laser-based backbone, which can actually perform at speed-of-light-in-vacuum instead of speed-of-light-in-fiber, and that is about 47% faster (300k-km/s vs. 204k-km/s).

That means west coast to east coast idealized roundtrip latency will drop to 33ms. And add the 25ms for Starlink and you're at 58ms instead of 85ms.

So unless you're gaming with people in your own neighborhood, Starlink might actually be your lowest latency option.
 
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So unless you're gaming with people in your own neighborhood, Starlink might actually be your lowest latency option.
Exciting. Elon has said much the same thing. I don't care about latency for gaming but I look forward to excellent audio and video chatting as well as a cloud hard drive that works as well as my local one.

By the way, I presume you mean msec (millisecond) rather than m/s
 
did not know about the sat-to-sat links. that's cool! lets hope it all works.

a lot of things work on paper and then take forever to solve the last 10 or 5%.

but I'm all in favor of more network choices.

oh, and as for cross country packet switching, a lot of content is served locally and you lose that benefit if you have to go 'to the sky and back' when it was just a few miles down the road.

now, put caching servers 'up there' and NOW we're talkin' !