Coronavirus

[Wenche]

The Norwegian Institute of Public Health (NIPH), in collaboration with the Regional Medicine Information and Pharmacovigilance Centres (RELIS), processes reports of suspected side effects after coronavirus vaccination on behalf of the Norwegian Medicines Agency.
Excerpts:
A large proportion of the people who were offered coronavirus vaccination first in Norway were the elderly, often with severe underlying diseases. Several deaths reported in connection with vaccination have attracted international interest.
«Fatal incidents among these severely frail patients following vaccination do not imply a causal relationship between COVID-19 vaccination and death,» explains Dr Sara Viksmoen Watle, Senior Physician at the NIPH.

By 14th January, 43,740 people in Norway had been vaccinated against COVID-19. A large proportion of those vaccinated are nursing home residents. The Norwegian Medicines Agency reported that up to and including the 13th January, there had been 23 deaths reported in connection with vaccination, and that common side effects may have contributed to a severe disease course among severely frail elderly people.

In order to be able to interpret this information, it is important to see the full picture. Nursing home residents are at very high risk of a severe disease course or dying from COVID-19, and have therefore been prioritised for vaccination. A large proportion of those who live in nursing homes have severe underlying conditions or are in the last stages of life. Life expectancy in nursing homes is relatively short and on average, more than 300 people die in Norwegian nursing homes every week,” says Dr Watle.
In Norway, healthcare professionals and the public can report suspected side effects electronically. All reports, regardless of source, are registered in the same database, giving the Norwegian health authorities a rapid and good overview of all reported incidents.
From the studies performed in connection with vaccines from BioNTech and Pfizer, the health authorities have good knowledge about common and less common side effects among people who are vaccinated.
Link to the official site:

International interest about deaths following coronavirus vaccination

From the latest news in Norway (NRK.no, non commercial state channel) unfortunately in Norwegian, but Google translate may work:
104 meldinger om mistenkte bivirkninger: Vi er ikke bekymret

 

[Wenche]

Norway has a record of transparency in information, you may go directly to the source here, where all the data collected is available to all:
Reported suspected adverse reactions of covid-19 vaccines

 

[dhanson865]

COVID-19 Vaccinations in the U.S. by State - Statistics and Data

 

[dhanson865]

Why West Virginia's Winning The Race To Get COVID-19 Vaccine Into Arms

GRETCHEN GAROFOLI: So we got the vaccines on Tuesday, December 15. And we got the vaccines at the pharmacy around noon. And we were out in the nursing home by 2 p.m. administering our first doses.

NOGUCHI: That was nearly two weeks ahead of when most other states started sending pharmacists into long-term care facilities to vaccinate residents and staff.

GAROFOLI: A lot of people are looking to us as a state because after the first week we had, I believe, around 90% of doses that were allocated to our state into arms, which was really unheard of elsewhere.

NOGUCHI: West Virginia is charting its own path to vaccination. Every other state signed on to a federal program to contract with CVS and Walgreens to vaccinate elder care facilities. Instead, West Virginia delivered its vaccine supply to 250 pharmacies, many of them small, independent stores. Garofoli is also a pharmacy professor at West Virginia University. She says the federal plan to rely on big chains wasn't going to work for her state.

GAROFOLI: We have a lot of independent pharmacies or smaller pharmacies that are in those more rural communities. So in order to get the vaccine out to some of those areas, we needed to follow something a little bit different.

 

[Dave EV]

I had a bad headache yesterday and some dizziness, but it cleared up and I feel fine today. Hopefully it isn't COVID related.

TEG, if I were in your shoes, I would look to get tested again. Might provide some peace of mind knowing one way or another.

 

[TEG]

TEG, if I were in your shoes, I would look to get tested again. Might provide some peace of mind knowing one way or another.

Yeah, my healthcare provider won't cover another one for a while since I took one earlier in the week (which had come back negative.)
I seem to be feeling fine today, so going to hold off on another test. I have a relative who has a Costco home test kit they will drop off if I decide I need it.
My plan is to do that if I get any fever and sinus activity.

Today my wife was complaining that the hospital is boring and the food sucks, which I take as a good sign if those are her main complaints right now.

 

[Wenche]

Yeah, my healthcare provider won't cover another one for a while since I took one earlier in the week (which had come back negative.)
I seem to be feeling fine today, so going to hold off on another test. I have a relative who has a Costco home test kit they will drop off if I decide I need it.
My plan is to do that if I get any fever and sinus activity.

Today my wife was complaining that the hospital is boring and the food sucks, which I take as a good sign if those are her main complaints right now.

Hopefully you and your wife will recover as soon as possible.
In Norway all tests are free of charge, and we are obligated to test as soon as we get any symptoms, or suspect that we have been in contact with anyone infected.
As of yesterday there was discovered some positive tests with the British Covid variant (with unknown sources) and today the capital; Oslo (in Norway) was closed down, to reject further spread. Only food and medicine stores are open.

 

[heltok]

This is a cherry-picked argument. The fact of the matter is that like Pfizer, Moderna picked their centers for vaccine Phase 3 in areas with HIGH incidence of COVID-19 (it's just how you run these kinds of studies).

Both vaccines work by the SAME mechanism, and both trigger an immune response in the same timeline. We KNOW that the Ab response to Moderna's vaccine produces a robust antibody response BY day 14 (see image below). That doesn't just appear from zero on Day 13 and is there by Day 14. It also does so at 50% of the full dose being given now.

View attachment 630015
Safety, tolerability, and immunogenicity of a recombinant adenovirus type-5 vectored COVID-19 vaccine: a dose-escalation, open-label, non-randomised, first-in-human trial

Pfizer showed data at Day 8 that showed no antibody response, so all we know is that patients getting that vaccine start ramping up their Ab response between days 8 and 21.
COVID-19 vaccine BNT162b1 elicits human antibody and T H 1 T cell responses | Nature

In a nutshell, you CANNOT dismiss that there is a statistically lower incidence of COVID-19 early on in the Moderna group vs. the Pfizer group. That's not supported by the fact that both Phase 3 groups were in population centers with significant COVID-19 incidence.

How can I explain this difference? While both are mRNA vaccines, we know that the carrier fluids are vastly different between the two. Moderna's is far more stable than Pfizer's, as is evidenced by the storage conditions that do not require deep freezing. I would surmise that with the Moderna vaccine, a quicker immune response is triggered because either 1) more mRNA gets into the cells (supported by the fact that both low and mid-dose trials also showed robust immune responses) or 2) less mRNA is lost to degradation because the storage requirements.

Regardless, if it were up to me, I would split the doses we have and give EVERYONE a 1/2 dose immediately, before we tried to get people to the 2nd dose. This would give 4X the doses we have now with 80%+ efficacy throughout the population, instead of 95% at a vastly smaller number receiving 2 doses.

Just trying to understand this. Let’s assume that today we have vaccines for 10% of the population until March. What would be the outcome if we for example decided to lower the dose 1/10x and give it to everyone, then give everyone two full doses after March? Would this lower total deaths in any meaningful way and shorten the time until we can open up society with the cost of requiring 10% more of the vaccine?

If there is a possibility that this would save thousands of lives, should this not have been tried on a small scale, for example in one city?

 

[bkp_duke]

Just trying to understand this. Let’s assume that today we have vaccines for 10% of the population until March. What would be the outcome if we for example decided to lower the dose 1/10x and give it to everyone, then give everyone two full doses? Would this lower total deaths in any meaningful way and shorten the time on the cost of requiring 10% more of the vaccine?

If there is a possibility that this would save thousands of lives, should this not have been tried on a small scale, for example in one city?

You cannot do 1/10th the dose because there is no data that has tested that and shown it may or may not be efficacious. You would literally be trying to run a clinical trial on the population without their consent, and that's not legal.

We CAN, however, do 1/2 doses because Moderna did those tests in the clinical trials and at 1/2 the dose, it was essentially as effective as a full dose. That is legal, because the data exists to support the practice.

Additionally, we know that 2 weeks after the first dose of Moderna vaccine you are reasonably well covered in terms of immunity. The 2nd dose (booster) pushes that up further, but it's an incremental gain.

 

[heltok]

You cannot do 1/10th the dose because there is no data that has tested that and shown it may or may not be efficacious. You would literally be trying to run a clinical trial on the population without their consent, and that's not legal.

This frustrates me so much. Thousands of lives might go to waste, huge economical costs etc because ”not legal”. Ok, I understand that this is the case, but with some creativity there must be some solution to this obstacle. For example, why not offer it as volountary option to a hundred thousands 65+ year olds in high risk areas or some other group that would have gotten the vaccine in March, that still will get it in March. Just to get the data so we can consider doing it on a much larger scale or not.

Imo there is not enough sense of urgency, not enough war time thinking here. People are dying, personal economies are being destroyed. It’s like 911 happening every day. We shoud take some small calculated risks with some probability of a cost to far with some probability outweigh the alternative cost which is huge...

 

[rxlawdude]

And I am saying that based upon the LACK of Ab data before day 8, and the lower infection rate in the Moderna group that a valid argument can me made that the Moderna vaccine is more effective early on. By all valid scientific methodology that cannot just be tossed aside based upon on a whim.

Great discussion. I think what we can agree on is that the vaccine arm participants showed significant increases in antibodies, and apparent resistance to contracting symptomatic COVID-19 after 21 days, regardless of which mRNA vaccine is used.

 

[rxlawdude]

You cannot do 1/10th the dose because there is no data that has tested that and shown it may or may not be efficacious. You would literally be trying to run a clinical trial on the population without their consent, and that's not legal.

We CAN, however, do 1/2 doses because Moderna did those tests in the clinical trials and at 1/2 the dose, it was essentially as effective as a full dose. That is legal, because the data exists to support the practice.

Additionally, we know that 2 weeks after the first dose of Moderna vaccine you are reasonably well covered in terms of immunity. The 2nd dose (booster) pushes that up further, but it's an incremental gain.

You know what's going to happen? When it was discovered that with microbore syringes and needles, six doses could be obtained from each "5 dose" vial of the Pfizer vaccine guess what happened? Now the vials are "deemed" to be 6 doses. And microbore syringes/needles are becoming harder to get. Oh, and Pfizer gets credit for the extra dose from the feds.

If Moderna in fact advocates for half-doses and the FDA assents, they get credit for twice as many doses as nominally manufactured and labeled. Sweet deal!

Of course, both of these situations make more doses available now, which is a good thing!

 

[Wenche]

This frustrates me so much. Thousands of lives might go to waste, huge economical costs etc because ”not legal”. Ok, I understand that this is the case, but with some creativity there must be some solution to this obstacle. For example, why not offer it as volountary option to a hundred thousands 65+ year olds in high risk areas or some other group that would have gotten the vaccine in March, that still will get it in March. Just to get the data so we can consider doing it on a much larger scale or not.

Imo there is not enough sense of urgency, not enough war time thinking here. People are dying, personal economies are being destroyed. It’s like 911 happening every day. We shoud take some small calculated risks with some probability of a cost to far with some probability outweigh the alternative cost which is huge...

Some countries including Norway, is saving doses in fridges, to ensure that dose 2 is secured for those that had their first doses. I think it’s better to vaccine as many as possible now, and maybe only by half a dose to those lightweighted?
I would be happy for getting that 80% immunization, and get on with my life

 

[heltok]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...faf420-5453-11eb-acc5-92d2819a1ccb_story.html

Not great news

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

An employee's spouse tested positive, and nobody, not even that employee, received the alert.

Did the employee’s spouse go through the steps on their phone to manually report the positive result (after receiving a text message prompt, or directly)? They are the only ones who can do it.

 

[Puma2020]

For about 10 months, we (my wife and I) did everything we thought was prudent to protect ourselves. We wore masks while out in public, social distancing, no indoor dining (very, very little contact-less dining), frequent hand washing, no gatherings over the 10 months (including the holidays). It worked for 10 months. Sadly, my wife got C19 in late December and I got it a few days after that. Luckily, both mild cases.

After 3 weeks, I had a remnant cough that was driving her crazy, so I went to the doctors last week. Got a PCR test (shoved up the nose) and some blood work. The blood tests showed a significant issue with blood clotting (a known C19 issue). That sent me to the hospital for a CAT scan and I got a rapid test (shoved up the nose) there. The rapid test was negative. The PCR result (the next day) was positive. The doctor said that PCR can return a positive result up to a month after you got the virus. Cat scan showed no blood clots. Got the needed antibiotic for the cough which is now much better. Not sure how much $$$ I will end up paying to get a simple prescription, but am hoping that the TSLA stock goes up to cover it!

The doctor said to increase my vitamin D (up to an additional 3,000 IU) and take a multivitamin (which usually has 1,000 IU of vitamin D). Other folks have mentioned vitamin D as well.

I pass along this information to possibly help others.

 

[TEG]

(This may be stating the obvious, but...)

I think the #1 factor in catching COVID is getting exposed to it (in spite of whatever PPE one might be hoping will protect you), and the total number of cases "skyrocketed" in December... So you (and my family too) may have gone 10 months without having been exposed at all, but the odds of encountering someone with COVID increased a lot as the case counts rose.

Along with that, the holiday period caused more families to take risks with "joining isolation bubbles together", and some people just hit the end of their rope in terms of isolation ("COVID fatigue") and started taking more exposure risks for that reason as well.

There is also the theory that new COVID variants are more communicable, so perhaps the types of PPE that protected us before weren't good enough anymore.

 

[bkp_duke]

(This may be stating the obvious, but...)

I think the #1 factor in catching COVID is getting exposed to it (in spite of whatever PPE one might be hoping will protect you), and the total number of cases "skyrocketed" in December... So you (and my family too) may have gone 10 months without having been exposed at all, but the odds of encountering someone with COVID increased a lot as the case counts rose.

Along with that, the holiday period caused more families to take risks with "joining isolation bubbles together", and some people just hit the end of their rope in terms of isolation ("covid fatigue") and started taking more exposure risks for that reason as well.

Spot on. We know PPE helps, but is far from a perfect solution because 1 in 6 infections are healthcare workers and their families.
Health workers and their families account for 1 in 6 hospital covid-19 cases | BMJ
And these are the people that know how to use PPE properly (effectiveness drops off markedly for poor use of PPE).

People got COVID Fatigue in Nov and Dec and decided to risk things to be with family. We are paying the price for those decision now.

 

[ReddyLeaf]

Just another data point: A neighbor just got it. 100% WFH, no eating out, always masking, etc. He went to the dermatologist and had to unmask for the examination. It was his only “real” exposure that he can remember. FWIW, I’m reading and hearing about more and more cases, even amongst very careful people. I haven’t been to a restaurant since March, always masked when going to Home Depot, grocery or coffee shops. My biggest risk was picking up used coffee grounds daily (Sept-Dec) at three shops for my garden compost. Now, I rarely go to the grocery and have decided to stop all other shopping. Definitely looking forward to getting the vaccine by June.

 

[JRP3]

What I wonder about are the procedures people use after being around other people. My procedure, other than not going inside any building for months now, (besides my mother's house, where I wear an N95 mask and gloves), is after I've left a building I would remove my mask, then my gloves, put them on the floor of my vehicle, then use hand sanitizer. Usually I'll use the hand sanitizer on the gloves as well before I take them off.

Also I'm not sure why more people don't take advantage of curb side pickup where available. I have no need to go inside a store for months, I order online and either get delivery or have them bring things to you outside the store. Items are loaded into the back of my truck and then stay in the garage for at least a day.