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Coronavirus
- Thread starter Wenche
- Start date
"NBC's Sam Brock filmed a video of one store in Naples, Florida where both employees and customers are not wearing masks. The owner says he doesn't think they work and denies 400,000 people have died from the virus. The video quickly went viral."
I don't know how to rate this. There needs to be an angry option. These people are denying reality.
bkp_duke
Well-Known Member
It's not like this was necessarily malicious. There is a significant viral shedding period for most people while they are still asymptomatic.
Also, note that the virus can live on various types of surfaces for hours, and in some cases days. It could be that a customer came in, left some viral particles (they do float for a significant time in the air as well), and that was the source.
The point is, you will never be able to point the finger to exactly who, when, and where. You can get an idea, but that's it. This is also why contact tracing when a virus like this is so prevalent is a complete waste of money. The resources should be used to get more vaccine out there, as quickly as possible.
EVNow
Well-Known Member
Yes - we leave all paper made products for a day and all plastics for 3 days before using.
Infact, it’s likely the virus was passed on the packing rather than the food. This is why even heating the food may not be sufficient.
Yes, it might be kind of late to contact trace now that vaccines available and case number so large.
But, if we had contact tracing apps that everyone used diligently, we may be able to point out how TEG’s family got infected.
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bkp_duke
Well-Known Member
The contact tracing apps I've tried have been @#$%.
I have verified, known, exposures. Not a single one of the apps picked it up.
EVNow
Well-Known Member
Yes, it’s a little mystery. In the Covid ward at my brothers hospital, which had over 50 patients at one time has just 2.
But not sure what to make of the article on the whole. Almost every one of my friends has lost a close family member to Covid in India - including our family. It’s been devastating.
Most all online info I can find still talks about COVID as a respiratory illness and says it is highly unlikely that anyone catches if from eating/touching food, packages, etc.
So, conventional wisdom suggests the more likely way my wife caught it was because she went indoors into contaminated air in a "public" place ( even though she was wearing a mask, and presumably the staff was too, and social distancing was practiced.)
Personally I am going to suspect it could be like sandwich maker touched their face, then the sandwich, then my wife got exposed to it when she touched the sandwich and touched her face (mask removed to eat.)
But searches I did on catching COVID from food all seem to say it isn't a proven vector, and really unlikely to be a way to catch it.
So, conventional wisdom suggests the more likely way my wife caught it was because she went indoors into contaminated air in a "public" place ( even though she was wearing a mask, and presumably the staff was too, and social distancing was practiced.)
Personally I am going to suspect it could be like sandwich maker touched their face, then the sandwich, then my wife got exposed to it when she touched the sandwich and touched her face (mask removed to eat.)
But searches I did on catching COVID from food all seem to say it isn't a proven vector, and really unlikely to be a way to catch it.
ladysbff
Member
So sorry to hear about the troubles you and your family have been experiencing, especially after all the precautions you've taken. Thank you for sharing, as it's been insightful to follow along.
As a lay person, I was thinking - could it be possible that the reason your wife was symptomatic so quickly was because it was the food itself that was contaminated with a significant viral load, and by eating it the virus went directly into the stomach? Could that also explain why your daughter caught it (also ate a sandwich there), but you didn't? I supposed in that scenario the sandwich maker would have had to been still shedding, and perhaps had sneezed onto their gloves. Or perhaps not wearing gloves. If they sneezed on their hands or gloves, then went to cut the sandwich, which requires holding the sandwich firmly, seems like there is opportunity for transmission.
Searching online for information about COVID on food just now wasn't very helpful. All the major orgs say COVID can't survive on food, but that doesn't seem to preclude this theoretical situation where the sandwich was uncooked and eaten shortly after being made?
I am going to try to wind down talking more about my family saga, as I feel like I highjacked this thread for a bit.
With that said, my wife has some major pre-existing conditions including a compromised immune system, so she could have been extra susceptible, and perhaps the virus took hold quicker than usual.
Really she shouldn't have been out of the house at all, but COVID fatigue had really set in and she was desperate to get out and do anything, so going out to lunch with our daughter was a risk she decided to take.
With that said, my wife has some major pre-existing conditions including a compromised immune system, so she could have been extra susceptible, and perhaps the virus took hold quicker than usual.
Really she shouldn't have been out of the house at all, but COVID fatigue had really set in and she was desperate to get out and do anything, so going out to lunch with our daughter was a risk she decided to take.
Cynical responses:
The video itself isn't the only thing that will "go viral" there...
Politicians figured out they can reduce the statistical positive test count easier by firing their data science team instead of asking people to wear masks.
They figure they will lose votes if they tell people to change their behavior. If someone catches COVID and dies from it they won't have a chance to vote against them.
bkp_duke
Well-Known Member
Just got 2nd Moderna dose.
Have blocked off the weekend to deal with potential side-effects.
Have blocked off the weekend to deal with potential side-effects.
AlanSubie4Life
Efficiency Obsessed Member
It's not THAT prevalent. In San Diego 97% of close contacts are traced in 24 hours from a positive test result (so more like 2-4 days), which is undoubtedly helpful, though not as fast as it needs to be. To the extent these things (contact tracing, vaccination) are not competing for the same resources (it's far from clear that they are, as contact tracers have a completely different skill set than those trained for vaccine transport and administration), we should do both. As you have said, we must do everything in our power to crush this virus and stop the spread, to avoid the possibility of escaping mutations emerging (fortunately has not happened - yet). Every single transmission chain that is broken is a win. Every single vaccine administered is a win. We should attempt to walk and chew gum.
Most likely, by far, given an inadequate mask was used, is airborne transmission. N95s are required; cloth masks have relatively low protection for the wearer (if everyone wears masks, they likely are helpful, since they reduce aerosol production, though data is limited). Just read a paper yesterday showing no significant protection for mask wearers (but note this is 1) only for the person who was infected, 2) the quality of mask was not assessed, and 3) I find it highly doubtful that masks were actually used at home in most cases even for a "yes" for mask use, where the highest risk of transmission was). https://twitter.com/DiseaseEcology/status/1357117171369824258?s=20
It's a respiratory virus. Wear a proper respirator. Not saying these other modes of transmission can't happen (food, objects), but for any particular incident one should assume it is from virus that was inhaled (if a full-face respirator was in use, which it wasn't here, I would suspect food in this case).
(Aside: one of the interesting things from this study is that it shows that age, health status, cardio status, and diabetes status have no statistically significant impact on the risk of becoming symptomatic if you are infected. It confirms what sort of seemed to be the case in my mind - asymptomatic infections are apparently randomly distributed amongst the population. Being super healthy and fit doesn't seem to have a significant impact on whether you end up symptomatic (which was about 45% of the infections in this study). It's very interesting. Obviously GIVEN a symptomatic infection, these factors matter a great deal for your prognosis. Would be really nice to know why half the people who get infected, even if they're super old and weak, show no symptoms, though! It's very odd.)
Here's another little writeup; sort of summarizes some of the prior posts here:
Why You Should Take Any Vaccine
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Tiger
Active Member
As coronaviruses (like covid-19) seem to be quite aggressive, could it be possible to engineer non-human coronaviruses to target human cancer cells? An article discusses using bispecific single-chain antibodies to target to human cancer cells.
Could such cure then (intentionally) spread among people and cure the particular targeted cancer form from everyone?
And conversely, could there be risk of such remedy mutating into a menace after first being intended as a cure?
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bkp_duke
Well-Known Member
Thank you for taking the time to explain all the science behind why it wouldn't work, LOL...
( I am sure he knows, but doesn't want to spend all day digging up the papers and research that explains why not. )
My wife had 2 doses of Pfizer. First dose little to no problem. Second dose no problem until about 3 days after then she felt weak and dizzy for a day. No idea how that relates to Moderna but looking forward to your comments. Stay safe and best of luck.
EVNow
Well-Known Member
Agreed - almost always human contact. But if human contact never happened or happened for very brief periods, then food+packaging becomes equally as likely as a distant airborne transmission.
So my wife gets bloodwork done more than most due to pre-existing conditions...
So she pulled up her recent Hematocrit results chart and saw this:
Guess which part of the graph shows when she was in the hospital with COVID. As has been reported, this virus can mess with your blood so it doesn't carry oxygen well.
So she pulled up her recent Hematocrit results chart and saw this:
Guess which part of the graph shows when she was in the hospital with COVID. As has been reported, this virus can mess with your blood so it doesn't carry oxygen well.
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