Got my first Pfizer today... My local community center seems to have a received a new batch of Pfizer & Moderna and recently accepted appointments to randomly give you one or the other.
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Coronavirus
- Thread starter Wenche
- Start date
WHO's 'not credible' coronavirus report angers scientists and politicians alike
A new report from the World Health Organization that seeks to uncover the origins of the coronavirus pandemic has been met with skepticism from Washington, all but ensuring that the question of how the pathogen emerged would remain a nagging issue for President Biden.
rxlawdude
Active Member
You know, proving a negative is a fool's errand.
WHO's 'not credible' coronavirus report angers scientists and politicians alike
A new report from the World Health Organization that seeks to uncover the origins of the coronavirus pandemic has been met with skepticism from Washington, all but ensuring that the question of how the pathogen emerged would remain a nagging issue for President Biden.news.yahoo.com
EVNow
Well-Known Member
Is this going to affect April availability or is this the reason for low March availability ?
ps :
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Likely the same, yes... Long line back into the park...Ditto for my wife & I. Are you in the bay area? Perhaps we were at the same community center.
/TCP
New Helix Covid sequencing update today. It looks like Michigan, Minnesota, and Florida are now around 70% B.1.1.7 with other states continuing to show increases. Texas near 60%. California now shows 40% or higher (mostly sequenced from the San Diego area apparently).
rxlawdude
Active Member
More reason to mask up, socially distance, and for God's sake, get vaccinated!New Helix Covid sequencing update today. It looks like Michigan, Minnesota, and Florida are now around 70% B.1.1.7 with other states continuing to show increases. Texas near 60%. California now shows 40% or higher (mostly sequenced from the San Diego area apparently).
EVNow
Well-Known Member
Interestingly DeSantis seems to be encouraging everyone to get vaccinated (even though he says he will try to make vaccine-passports illegal in some way).
Its all about the culture war + 2024.
Don't freak out if you get these side effects from a Covid-19 vaccine. They can actually be a good sign | CNN
With millions more Americans getting vaccinated every day, some have complained about symptoms they weren't expecting. Don't panic, doctors say. Here's what might happen, and why you shouldn't use side effects as an excuse to skip vaccination.
www.cnn.com
So far, for me, one day after 1st Pfizer, the only thing I am noticing is a slightly sore arm.
bkp_duke
Well-Known Member
Don't freak out if you get these side effects from a Covid-19 vaccine. They can actually be a good sign | CNN
With millions more Americans getting vaccinated every day, some have complained about symptoms they weren't expecting. Don't panic, doctors say. Here's what might happen, and why you shouldn't use side effects as an excuse to skip vaccination.
So far, for me, one day after 1st Pfizer, the only thing I am noticing is a slightly sore arm.
Decent, but not fool-proof indicator that you didn't have COVID-19 previously (more accurate in the young than the old).
Americans should continue to follow Covid-19 precautions despite record vaccinations, experts say | CNN
Millions of Americans have been vaccinated against Covid-19, and more are getting vaccinated every day. But that doesn't mean the US can let its guard down, health officials say.
www.cnn.com
Yes, I was rather curious to know if I would have side effects from first dose since I had been previously closely exposed to 2 family members who had active COVID, but I never showed symptoms and had 2 negative antibody tests. It sure seems like I somehow managed not to catch it even though I was very exposed.
Maybe all those "supplements" I have been taking (including lots of vitamin D, and Zinc) helped out.
Once I knew I was exposed I took cinnamon, licorice, quercetin, famotidine, melatonin and xylitol spray for the next couple weeks.
( Had them sitting on a shelf just in case they might prove helpful. )
Might be superstitious hogwash, but I tried anything "safe" that I saw people suggesting might help.
AlanSubie4Life
Efficiency Obsessed Member
Qualitatively distinct modes of Sputnik V vaccine-neutralization escape by SARS-CoV-2 Spike variants
The novel pandemic betacoronavirus, severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2), has infected at least 120 million people since its identification as the cause of a December 2019 viral pneumonia outbreak in Wuhan, China. Despite the unprecedented pace of vaccine development...
www.medrxiv.org
An informative article showing B.1.351 SA variant escapes neutralization by Sputnik V.
The discussion is informative: they claim pre-fusion stabilized spike is key (and describe what that is, roughly, though I don’t fully understand it). So J&J, Moderna, and Pfizer have this, so do not suffer from the same issue. Coronavac, AstraZeneca, and Sputnik V suffer from this issue. This has been speculated about here previously by others and it really seems there is something to it, and can help us understand WHY certain vaccines work better than others. (@Jeff N )
The second reminder discussed in the paper is that even though it does not neutralize and prevent infection & spread (key to eliminating the virus), the Sputnik V vaccine very likely prevents severe disease, due to cell-mediated immunity, which is likely still effective. The second line of defense appears to be effective even in the absence of pre-fusion-stabilized-spike-elicited antibodies.
There is also an interesting discussion about the dose-response curve slope vs. just looking at serum dilution for (say) IC50, when trying to establish correlates of protection. The dilution alone for a fixed point doesn’t give all the info.
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scottf200
Well-Known Member
FB: "Your local epidemiologist" I follow provided this. Also in this substack post: Vaccine table updated
Lots of vaccine updates, so I updated the table.
Here is a brief summary explaining the changes (and data sources):
**Pfizer**
1. In a press release yesterday, Pfizer gave us a glimpse of their clinical trial 6 month data!! Super exciting. And it looks absolutely beautiful.
3. Still works against lots of variants, thanks to T-cells
4. FDA approved warmer storage
**Moderna**
1. Phase I for a vaccine booster against B.1.351 (booster against the S. African variant) has started
2. Still works against lots of variants, thanks to T-cells
**AstraZeneca**
1. Efficacy remains high (75%) against B.1.1.7
**Brazil variant**
We are starting to learn a lot about P.1/P.2 (which originally detected in Brazil). It looks like it’s acting a lot like B.1.351 (originally detected in S. Africa). This makes sense because a lot of the mutations are the same. We have some data from J&J trial. For mRNA vaccines, we now know that they will still work against P.1 because of T-cells.
**Frequently Asked Table Questions**
1. Efficacy vs. neutralizing antibodies? There are two ways to measure how well a vaccine works: Efficacy and immunogenicity. Immunogenicity is a more complicated metric that measures the type of immune responses that the vaccine generates and their magnitude over time. Unfortunately, there is currently no definitive set values that “define” a protective immune response (we are still working on this). So, we just know that immunogenicity is “lower” against variants, but we don’t really know what that exactly means in terms of efficacy. Also, there are a lot of different lab studies to measure immunogenicity. So, we can’t compare neutralizing antibodies from one study (like among Moderna) compared to another study (like for Pfizer).
2. Why is there more Pfizer press than Moderna? I don’t know, but I can make conjectures. Pfizer is a seasoned, big fish in this game. This is Moderna’s first vaccine. Less press is not reason to worry about Moderna. The biotechnology is almost exactly the same, so there’s no reason to think that Moderna is meaningfully different than Pfizer.
**Other Random Update**
Vaccine hesitancy continues to decrease in the United States! We still have work to do, though.
Lots of vaccine updates, so I updated the table.
Here is a brief summary explaining the changes (and data sources):
**Pfizer**
1. In a press release yesterday, Pfizer gave us a glimpse of their clinical trial 6 month data!! Super exciting. And it looks absolutely beautiful.
- -12,000 people now have 6 months of data
- -Efficacy is 91.3% (927 COVID19 cases popped up: 850 cases in the placebo group and 77 cases in the vaccine group)
- -No impact on B.1.351 (S. Africa) efficacy. However, this was a really small sample size, so we aren’t too confident in these numbers. But a good sign.
- -Prevented 100% of severe disease on old variants and S. Africa variant
3. Still works against lots of variants, thanks to T-cells
4. FDA approved warmer storage
**Moderna**
1. Phase I for a vaccine booster against B.1.351 (booster against the S. African variant) has started
2. Still works against lots of variants, thanks to T-cells
**AstraZeneca**
1. Efficacy remains high (75%) against B.1.1.7
**Brazil variant**
We are starting to learn a lot about P.1/P.2 (which originally detected in Brazil). It looks like it’s acting a lot like B.1.351 (originally detected in S. Africa). This makes sense because a lot of the mutations are the same. We have some data from J&J trial. For mRNA vaccines, we now know that they will still work against P.1 because of T-cells.
**Frequently Asked Table Questions**
1. Efficacy vs. neutralizing antibodies? There are two ways to measure how well a vaccine works: Efficacy and immunogenicity. Immunogenicity is a more complicated metric that measures the type of immune responses that the vaccine generates and their magnitude over time. Unfortunately, there is currently no definitive set values that “define” a protective immune response (we are still working on this). So, we just know that immunogenicity is “lower” against variants, but we don’t really know what that exactly means in terms of efficacy. Also, there are a lot of different lab studies to measure immunogenicity. So, we can’t compare neutralizing antibodies from one study (like among Moderna) compared to another study (like for Pfizer).
2. Why is there more Pfizer press than Moderna? I don’t know, but I can make conjectures. Pfizer is a seasoned, big fish in this game. This is Moderna’s first vaccine. Less press is not reason to worry about Moderna. The biotechnology is almost exactly the same, so there’s no reason to think that Moderna is meaningfully different than Pfizer.
**Other Random Update**
Vaccine hesitancy continues to decrease in the United States! We still have work to do, though.
Just a general comment that I think there are 2 main "lines of attack" we have that are most effective at stopping this from harming people:
#1: (obviously) the various vaccines
#2: Monoclonal antibody treatments EARLY in the course when symptoms are first detected.
If #2 were widely available, I wouldn't even be worrying so much and think of this as a more minor illness. The problem is their availability and when you get approved to get them. From what I can tell, they are highly effective at stopping symptoms. But (unless you are some high profile official), I think the only way to get them is through randomized trials, so you might end up with placebo which isn't a good place to be.
Is there any news on more widespread availability? And ability to get them prescribed without being in a randomized trial?
I assume it will always be only in a hospital settings, so no chance of some monoclonal antibody "home cure" ever coming?
All the other drugs... Remdesivir, etc, are really just about reducing the most severe symptoms. Monoclonal antibodies are more like an antidote/cure from what I can tell.
#1: (obviously) the various vaccines
#2: Monoclonal antibody treatments EARLY in the course when symptoms are first detected.
If #2 were widely available, I wouldn't even be worrying so much and think of this as a more minor illness. The problem is their availability and when you get approved to get them. From what I can tell, they are highly effective at stopping symptoms. But (unless you are some high profile official), I think the only way to get them is through randomized trials, so you might end up with placebo which isn't a good place to be.
Is there any news on more widespread availability? And ability to get them prescribed without being in a randomized trial?
I assume it will always be only in a hospital settings, so no chance of some monoclonal antibody "home cure" ever coming?
All the other drugs... Remdesivir, etc, are really just about reducing the most severe symptoms. Monoclonal antibodies are more like an antidote/cure from what I can tell.
EVNow
Well-Known Member
Don't freak out if you get these side effects from a Covid-19 vaccine. They can actually be a good sign | CNN
With millions more Americans getting vaccinated every day, some have complained about symptoms they weren't expecting. Don't panic, doctors say. Here's what might happen, and why you shouldn't use side effects as an excuse to skip vaccination.
So far, for me, one day after 1st Pfizer, the only thing I am noticing is a slightly sore arm.
I compiled this partial list for Pfizer. Side effects are worse
- after second dose
- for younger people
| Pfizer Dose 1 | Pfizer Dose 2 | ||||||
| <55 | >55 | Placebo | <55 | >55 | Placebo | ||
| Fever | 4% | 1% | 0% | 16% | 11% | 0% | |
| Fatigue | 47% | 34% | 23% | 59% | 51% | 17% | |
| Headache | 42% | 25% | 18% | 52% | 39% | 14% | |
| Chills | 14% | 6% | 3% | 35% | 23% | 3% | |
| Diarrhea | 11% | 8% | 7% | 10% | 8% | 6% | |
| Muscle Pain | 21% | 14% | 8% | 37% | 29% | 5% |
Look at the number of Placebo people getting side-effects. Definitely some of that is in the mind.
BTW, I guess people with previous Covid infection & people receiving the second dose have worse side effects for the same reason. Infact it also explains higher side effects in younger folk. The better your immune system / immunity - the stronger the reaction.
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