Coronavirus

[TespaceX]

Stanford, Cal State University and the University of California systems have announced they will require vaccinations of all students and staff for the Fall. But, this depends on when the vaccines get formal FDA approval (and not just EUA) and negotiations with unions. Also, anyone with a religious or medical reasoning will be exempt.
Expect a lot of new Christians, heh.

Even in my mostly liberal city, there’s a couple infamous churches. One church tells their congregation that they don’t need to wear any masks inside. So, I have yet to see anyone during this entire pandemic wear a mask every time I drive by. Not sure how they’ve been getting around the mask issue because I’m very positive at least a couple police families attend. (Or, maybe that is the reason they are “exempt”). There’s also a church that is telling their congregation not to get the vaccine because it will mix into their DNA and it’s not God’s will.

 

[bkp_duke]

Stanford, Cal State University and the University of California systems have announced they will require vaccinations of all students and staff for the Fall. But, this depends on when the vaccines get formal FDA approval (and not just EUA) and negotiations with unions. Also, anyone with a religious or medical reasoning will be exempt.
Expect a lot of new Christians, heh.

Even in my mostly liberal city, there’s a couple infamous churches. One church tells their congregation that they don’t need to wear any masks inside. So, I have yet to see anyone during this entire pandemic wear a mask every time I drive by. Not sure how they’ve been getting around the mask issue because I’m very positive at least a couple police families attend. (Or, maybe that is the reason they are “exempt”). There’s also a church that is telling their congregation not to get the vaccine because it will mix into their DNA and it’s not God’s will.

Why the F should "negotiations with unions" have anything to do with something like this?

 

[shinytop]

I don't think religion should have anything to do with this. Religion is a personal affair and if you believe strongly enough when your preacher says don't get it then fine, but that should be no protection for your job. Employers have to consider the overall health of their workforce and if they require the vaccine so be it. It is an individual choice but that choice should not be allowed to jeopardize anybody else. Period.

 

[JRP3]

Hurts to lift it up near horizontal today, didn't sleep well, feeling a bit off in general, tired, slight buzz in my head, (so it's not all bad). Glad I don't need to work, especially physical labor.

Arm pain seems to be going away faster than the first shot and the rest of my body feels mostly back to normal now.

 

[madodel]

I don't recall seeing this, but AZ has named changed to
vaxzevria.

 

[eevee-fan]

I don't recall seeing this, but AZ has named changed to
vaxzevria.

Hey, that's what scam companies do! They get caught then come back under a different name.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

J&J is back in action. If I were a woman under the age of 50 I'd think twice about getting this particular vaccine, especially if I were obese, but it's good that it's back. I'm curious about how they're going to monitor for these rare side effects in the populations that are most likely to get this vaccine (they would typically be difficult to keep track of and ensure they come in if they have excruciating headaches).

9 million doses are ready to go. Guess there will be a lot of vaccine available next week. We'll see whether we're hitting an actual wall in terms of vaccine acceptance.

ACIP opts to lift pause on Johnson & Johnson vaccine

www.cidrap.umn.edu

Here's the evidence base with probably everything you'd want to know about the risk/benefit analysis, as well as an explanation of TTS:

ACIP April 23, 2021 Presentation Slides | Immunization Practices | CDC

ACIP Presentation slides from April 23, 2021 meeting. Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices (ACIP).

www.cdc.gov

I'm not sure what the reason is for the 15 vs. 26 cases discrepancy, but there have been 26 adjudicated cases of TTS so far.

Anyway, doesn't really seem like a close call (overall), but of course we'd all much prefer a vaccine without this side effect profile!

 

[madodel]

J&J is back in action. If I were a woman under the age of 50 I'd think twice about getting this particular vaccine, especially if I were obese, but it's good that it's back. I'm curious about how they're going to monitor for these rare side effects in the populations that are most likely to get this vaccine (they would typically be difficult to keep track of and ensure they come in if they have excruciating headaches).

9 million doses are ready to go. Guess there will be a lot of vaccine available next week. We'll see whether we're hitting an actual wall in terms of vaccine acceptance.

View attachment 656481

ACIP opts to lift pause on Johnson & Johnson vaccine

www.cidrap.umn.edu

Here's the evidence base with probably everything you'd want to know about the risk/benefit analysis, as well as an explanation of TTS:

ACIP April 23, 2021 Presentation Slides | Immunization Practices | CDC

ACIP Presentation slides from April 23, 2021 meeting. Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices (ACIP).

www.cdc.gov

I'm not sure what the reason is for the 15 vs. 26 cases discrepancy, but there have been 26 adjudicated cases of TTS so far.

Anyway, doesn't really seem like a close call, but of course we'd all much prefer a vaccine without this side effect profile!

My wife says if J&J were her only option she'd take Eliquis for a month starting just before vaccination. She also wants to know what other factors these 15 women who had clots after J&J had. Did they smoke, were they diabetic, were they on birth control? Nothing about any of this. 15 cases out of 8 million injections is a really tiny occurrence.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

Did they smoke, were they diabetic, were they on birth control? Nothing about any of this. 15 cases out of 8 million injections is a really tiny occurrence.

Actually that's nearly all in the CDC link provided. 7 obese (hence my comment, though I don't know exactly what obesity prevalence is in the US population of women), a couple on birth control, no diabetics. A couple with hypertension and a couple with hypothyroidism.

https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/acip/meetings/downloads/slides-2021-04-23/03-COVID-Shimabukuro-508.pdf

The four presentations there are pretty detailed.

And the correct denominator for these statistics is 4 million (again, according to the presentation), not 8 million. Presumably not all of the cases have been processed or yet reported.

Regarding the occurrence rate: absolute risk of death from COVID-19 in this age bracket amongst women is also quite rare (remember you have to account for exposure too - given infection the risks of course go up considerably). So it's not a slam dunk for this specific demographic - especially given that you can access alternative vaccines, and for those where the mRNA vaccines are contraindicated, you soon will be able to rely on the herd to a certain extent. (One of the links provides an extensive analysis of this taking into account all the factors - existing and ongoing vaccination decreases COVID risk in this group of women a great deal, so it makes the J&J argument less compelling in that group. If J&J were the only vaccine it would be much less of a close call. Fortunately it's not!)

The treatment recommended for TTS is non-heparin anticoagulant and intravenous immunoglobulin (IVIG).

There have been three deaths and at least 4 patients are still in the ICU (presumably with long-term consequences).

 

[tcpilot]

My spouse & I got our 2nd doses of Pfizer yesterday at the local community center. Localized arm pain and some mild lethargy has been about the extent of symptoms. @TEG I gotta ask, I'm wondering if you got your 2nd dose too? There was a Nissan Leaf in the parking lot with the personalized plate TEGLEAF on it .

Cheers,

/TCP

 

[TEG]

You caught me. I got Pfizer #2 yesterday there. I take my old LEAF as a "beater" car to places I might get door-dinged and leave the Model 3 at home.
No side effects for me so far 24+ hours later. I feel fine.

Maybe you spotted me? I was the guy way overdressed with the full face mask and sun hat...

Two weeks from now I plan to retire that mask and save it in case we have more smoky forest fires in our future.
Will be switching to minimal mask once I get 2 weeks past vaccine #2.

My daughter just got her first shot today after having had COVID back in January. We were just having a household "debate" over pain killers if headaches show up after vaccinations. Is there some conclusion there? I was just noticing this:

Experts Answer Eight Key Questions About Covid-19 Vaccine Reactions

Medical professionals weigh in on why some individuals have different responses to the shots and offer advice on what to expect

www.smithsonianmag.com

You should avoid taking pain relievers before your shot because these medications may blunt the body’s immune response to the vaccine. You also shouldn’t get a Covid-19 vaccine at the same time as another vaccine, like the flu or shingles vaccine, according to the CDC.

My wife was saying "take ibuprofen if you get a headache", and I was like "seems to be differences of opinion on that..."

 

[madodel]

Actually that's nearly all in the CDC link provided. 7 obese (hence my comment, though I don't know exactly what obesity prevalence is in the US population of women), a couple on birth control, no diabetics. A couple with hypertension and a couple with hypothyroidism.

https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/acip/meetings/downloads/slides-2021-04-23/03-COVID-Shimabukuro-508.pdf

The four presentations there are pretty detailed.

And the correct denominator for these statistics is 4 million (again, according to the presentation), not 8 million. Presumably not all of the cases have been processed or yet reported.

Regarding the occurrence rate: absolute risk of death from COVID-19 in this age bracket amongst women is also quite rare (remember you have to account for exposure too - given infection the risks of course go up considerably). So it's not a slam dunk for this specific demographic - especially given that you can access alternative vaccines, and for those where the mRNA vaccines are contraindicated, you soon will be able to rely on the herd to a certain extent. (One of the links provides an extensive analysis of this taking into account all the factors - existing and ongoing vaccination decreases COVID risk in this group of women a great deal, so it makes the J&J argument less compelling in that group. If J&J were the only vaccine it would be much less of a close call. Fortunately it's not!)

The treatment recommended for TTS is non-heparin anticoagulant and intravenous immunoglobulin (IVIG).

There have been three deaths and at least 4 patients are still in the ICU (presumably with long-term consequences).

Thanks for the clarification. The 8 million was said on the News tonight. Even out of 4 million it is a tiny occurrence. Interesting none smoked. My wife was sure that smoking and birth control use would be a main contributing factor but it doesn't look like that is the case. But most had some pre-existing condition. They need to make this known that people with those should probably do the mRNA vaccines if possible. According to this tweet, the agreed label just says that specific risk factors for thrombosis with J&J vaccine are still being investigated.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

Interesting none smoked.

I couldn't determine that from the presentations.

Even out of 4 million it is a tiny occurrence.

It's actually 7 per million for the group of interest, NOT including follow-up time, so it's likely higher than that. The highest risk group is women 30-39, according to the limited data available so far.

It's super confusing because it does take time to surface and investigate all cases, and while 8 million vaccines have been administered, we don't know the numerator associated with that. As near as I can tell 4 million was the right denominator to use with 15 cases, but it's always going to be wishy-washy since vaccines were administered on an ongoing basis and onset, reporting, and investigation & confirmation all take significant time. In a couple weeks we'll probably have a final number for this first set of vaccinations, but then it will be confused by new reports from J&J vaccinations that start up again (and literally no one will think to report the two sets of data separately).

It would be nice if they could identify specific risk factors. Seems to me that if you're not a woman between 18 and 49, your risk is very low, though.

My wife was sure that and birth control use

The mechanisms are apparently very different from the clotting mechanisms associated with birth control so it's not that surprising I guess.

 

[madodel]

I couldn't determine that from the presentations.

It's actually 7 per million for the group of interest, NOT including follow-up time, so it's likely higher than that. The highest risk group is women 30-39, according to the limited data available so far.

It's super confusing because it does take time to surface and investigate all cases, and while 8 million vaccines have been administered, we don't know the numerator associated with that. As near as I can tell 4 million was the right denominator to use with 15 cases, but it's always going to be wishy-washy since vaccines were administered on an ongoing basis and onset, reporting, and investigation & confirmation all take significant time. In a couple weeks we'll probably have a final number for this first set of vaccinations, but then it will be confused by new reports from J&J vaccinations that start up again (and literally no one will think to report the two sets of data separately).

It would be nice if they could identify specific risk factors. Seems to me that if you're not a woman between 18 and 49, your risk is very low, though.


The mechanisms are apparently very different from the clotting mechanisms associated with birth control so it's not that surprising I guess.

While we definitely need the J&J vaccine in the mix for areas not capable of supporting the mRNA variant requirements, just the constant news about these negative outcomes are confusing people about all the vaccines and causing people to refuse any vaccination. They need to figure these risk factors out soon and widely publish them so people have confidence and will take the version best for them.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

While we definitely need the J&J vaccine in the mix for areas not capable of supporting the mRNA variant requirements, just the constant news about these negative outcomes are confusing people about all the vaccines and causing people to refuse any vaccination. They need to figure these risk factors out soon and widely publish them so people have confidence and will take the version best for them.

Yeah, it's unfortunate. I think the messaging has to be that for everyone other than women between 18 and 49, the risk is exceedingly low, and ideally they figure out the exact risk factors as time goes along so they can minimize negative outcomes. That's essentially what the warning is though, so I don't know what else they can do right now. I suspect given the mechanism that there is going to always be some randomness to it, though. Some people's immune systems just go a little nuts or whatever. It's complicated! And figuring out risk factors for such small numbers is very difficult - once we've vaccinated 10x as many people it will be more clear. It's very interesting that it's basically always younger women (it doesn't appear this is due to who was vaccinated based on the rates) so I wonder if that provides some sort of clue as to the causative mechanism.

I'm sure the news media will be...unhelpful...in their coverage, though. They don't do nuance or "details" well.

My hope is that they'll be super emphatic at the time of vaccination about telling people what the EXACT symptoms are (it's a pretty short and distinctive list), WHEN they occur (takes at least 6 days), and to IMMEDIATELY go to urgent care or the ER if there is any question that you might be having symptoms. It seems to me that early intervention could save lives and make the impact and any long-term consequences minimal (which would make this not nearly as big a deal). There's plenty of time when giving a vaccination to just read from a script for the people in the risk groups (or just read it to everyone but emphasize which group is most at risk). Making it a disclaimer you have to sign is just not going to cut it (though you can do that too for the visual learners).

They won't do this of course.

One other factor to consider is that these early vaccinations may have been generally in higher risk groups, so we can hope that as time goes on and we hit healthier cohorts that the overall risk will go down, but I don't know what the chance is of that. Worldwide vaccination and treatment of this condition is also something that people are going to have to start thinking about managing, as there's really no avoiding it. Maintaining the cold chain for the other vaccines is more difficult in many places (though possible).

 

[dhanson865]

Do We Still Need to Keep Wearing Masks Outdoors? (Published 2021)

Science shows that the risk of viral transmission outside is very low, and federal health officials now have updated their advice. The “two-out-of-three rule” can help you decide whether to mask up.

www.nytimes.com

This 2 of 3 rule would have been good to keep in mind before vaccination. Now in fully vaccinated groups (everyone!), I plan to go 0 for 3, unless I can hit 1 for 3 easily with no hassle. COVID is over (under those specific conditions). When I go back to the office I’m probably going to go with a mask since I don’t trust those filthy engineers (and I can’t ask everyone their vaccine status - and some people are completely nuts).

I plan to continue to do this, unless the picture on variants becomes more clear and suggests vaccines are not effective enough AND those variants are common.

paywall, I couldn't get past the first paragraph.

 

[JRP3]

paywall, I couldn't get past the first paragraph.

Turn off java script.

 

[dhanson865]

oh and I got my 2nd shot of Moderna today.

 

[dhanson865]

Turn off java script.

blocked javascript on www. nytimes .com in one browser so I could see it. Not sure if I can do that on my work PC, will try tomorrow if I think about it.

 

[JRP3]

blocked javascript on www. nytimes .com in one browser so I could see it. Not sure if I can do that on my work PC, will try tomorrow if I think about it.

I use the Disable Javascript extension for Firefox which provides a button to turn it on and off for individual pages. Might be similar addons for other browsers.