Coronavirus

[TespaceX]

San Francisco Bay Area counties now have a mask mandate.

A nearby school district started school late last week, and have confirmed 15 cases so far in children and staff. Therefore some of the classrooms have been closed for cleaning and close contacts quarantined per protocol.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

San Francisco Bay Area counties now have a mask mandate.

A nearby school district started school late last week, and have confirmed 15 cases so far in children and staff. Therefore some of the classrooms have been closed for cleaning and close contacts quarantined per protocol.

In my opinion we're going to regret the slow walk of the FDA toward approval of these vaccines in the 5-11 group. While this does look like it is the absolute lowest risk group, I do worry about them exposing the 0-4 group (higher risk), in addition to the risk to themselves. And it's not clear to me it's particularly low risk, really, especially right now - it does seem possible that Delta is a little bit more dangerous than prior variants (we have no good data though).

I hope I'm wrong and it all works out fine. But with schools opening up, those denominators (specifically, the number infected) are going to start going up to the numbers we see each flu season or higher; they've been quite limited denominators until now, as much as people seem to want to ignore it. (As discussed before it seems like maybe a max of 12-15 million children under 18 infected so far out of 74 million.) In the 5-11 group less than 10% infected (you can see clearly from the CDC data they were highly protected relative to their population - COVID Data Tracker - 124 deaths on 1.2 million cases out of 29 million total) so we're looking at the potential of several hundred (or even over 1000) more deaths there, even under the assumption that Delta is not more deadly.

We'll see how it goes I guess. Not great to think that they were protected for a year and then missed vaccination by a couple months. These are just kids!

 

[dhanson865]

28 year old male, they were vaccine hesitant.

I hate news stories that set it up like that. They show someone with multiple visible preexisting conditions and then say "he had no preexisting conditions" (about 1 min 30 seconds in).

Let's start with number 1 "he"

ethnicity isn't an issue for this story but this backs up the male vs female with a different presentation

Then consider the person they almost always choose is noticeably overweight often to the point it would be labeled "obese" or "morbidly obese" by a professional not in the pay of the media (obeseity is so common in the US they treat it as normal and not a preexisting condition on the news)

Obesity, Race/Ethnicity, and COVID-19

Having obesity increases risk of severe illness from COVID-19.

www.cdc.gov

Obesity Worsens Outcomes from COVID-19​

Adults with excess weight are at even greater risk during the COVID-19 pandemic:

• Having obesity increases the risk of severe illness from COVID-19. People who are overweight may also be at increased risk.
• Having obesity may triple the risk of hospitalization due to a COVID-19 infection.
• Obesity is linked to impaired immune function.2,3
• Obesity decreases lung capacity and reserve and can make ventilation more difficult.4
• A study of COVID-19 cases suggests that risks of hospitalization, intensive care unit admission, invasive mechanical ventilation, and death are higher with increasing BMI.5
  • The increased risk for hospitalization or death was particularly pronounced in those under age 65. 5
• More than 900,000 adult COVID-19 hospitalizations occurred in the United States between the beginning of the pandemic and November 18, 2020. Models estimate that 271,800 (30.2%) of these hospitalizations were attributed to obesity.6

but yeah, we'll pick some guy that weighs more than the average person and say "he had no preexisting conditions"...

 

[cwerdna]

Sigh...

Some people in Missouri are getting vaccinated in secret to avoid backlash from loved ones, doctor says | CNN

The Covid-19 vaccine has become so polarizing that some people in Missouri are getting inoculated in secret for fear of backlash from their friends and family who oppose vaccination, a doctor told CNN on Wednesday.

www.cnn.com

 

[madodel]

Elite party cues increase vaccination intentions among Republicans

Unvaccinated Republicans who were shown a pro-vaxx message from a prominent Republican were 7% more likely to express intent to get vaccinated than those who were showed a pro-vaxx message from a prominent Democrat. The folks shown a pro-vaxx message from a neutral speaker were 5.7% more likely to express intent to get vaccinated.

 

[madodel]

Just venting. I attended my county commissioners meeting today. I asked what plans there were to try to get more people vaccinated since we have now experienced a weekly doubling of COVID cases over the past 3 weeks and there are at least 2 non-vaccinated patients on vents in one of the hospitals. The response was this is just "an uptick" and I pointed out that this is Summer and unless they do something that this has the potential to be a disaster in the Fall. They said there is nothing more they can do, they had 3 mass vaccination events and only 10 people showed up.. I pointed out that it wasn't known and no appointments were required. The one commissioner said "everyone who wants a shot has gotten one and there was nothing else to do". I said that the county vaccination was pathetic and the commissioner said "it's around 51%". They are doing nothing. It's a disgrace.

 

[Krugerrand]

I saw that on ABC. That is so sad. There are still a lot of people who say it's a hoax <edit add> or are just afraid to take the vaccine because it isn't tested</edit>. My wife won't even talk about it any more.

My best friend is an ICU nurse. A couple weeks ago they started receiving Covid contracts again. Just today I got a text from them; ‘I’m in ‘bleeping’ Covidville again. I’m so over it and people dying on every single shift. I’m ‘bleeping’ done.’ The frustration level is very real for our healthcare workers.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

I said that the county vaccination was pathetic and the commissioner said "it's around 51%". They are doing nothing. It's a disgrace.

Yeah it is bad. And as much as people may want to blame the unvaccinated, I am fairly sure there are a large group of unvaccinated who are not because no one has talked to them, they are not easily reached, they fear side effects keeping them out of work for a day or two, etc. Just people who are disadvantaged or lack good information in one way or another. Obviously there are the hard anti-vaxxer group as well, but I suspect that group may be smaller than the other group.

So saying there is nothing to be done is definitely a weak response.

It was really frustrating in May and June to see no sustained outreach to these communities, as I said here. Outreach has tremendously high ROI.

The lack of early mandates was also super weak and shortsighted. Mandates = liberty! At least we are seeing them now.

 

[madodel]

Yeah it is bad. And as much as people may want to blame the unvaccinated, I am fairly sure there are a large group of unvaccinated who are not because no one has talked to them, they are not easily reached, they fear side effects keeping them out of work for a day or two, etc. Just people who are disadvantaged or lack good information in one way or another. Obviously there are the hard anti-vaxxer group as well, but I suspect that group may be smaller than the other group.

So saying there is nothing to be done is definitely a weak response.

It was really frustrating in May and June to see no sustained outreach to these communities, as I said here. Outreach has tremendously high ROI.

The lack of early mandates was also super weak and shortsighted. Mandates = liberty! At least we are seeing them now.

That's what I and another person tried to tell them about them doing something to inform people, but then a bunch of unmasked (the county just started requiring masks to enter the building but no one enforcing it once they are in) people starting shouting about they weren't going to be forced to be vaccinated. We have no Health Dept. This is literally Appalachia but with lots of New Yorkers living here now. The commissioner actually said that people keep asking him why there is no health department and he tells them it is too expensive.

 

[madodel]

My best friend is an ICU nurse. A couple weeks ago they started receiving Covid contracts again. Just today I got a text from them; ‘I’m in ‘bleeping’ Covidville again. I’m so over it and people dying on every single shift. I’m ‘bleeping’ done.’ The frustration level is very real for our healthcare workers.

I think I posted a week or so ago that my wife said she can't go through this again. She should just retire but she loves her job. Our hospital is already short staffed of not just nurses and doctors but every department. If it does get bad again it is going to be very bad.

 

[Krugerrand]

I personally know of two people who managed to avoid getting COVID until recently. Both are fully vaccinated (Pfizer) and picked it up indoors maskless after letting their guard down.

One of those two managed to give it to a half-vaccinated relative before realizing they had COVID. Fortunately, the other relatives did not get it.

The prevalence of "long COVID" or where symptoms persist beyond 6 weeks, appear to be around 20% for people who are vaccinated that get COVID (sorry, don't have the reference handy). Both of those above reasons seem like good reasons to either strongly recommend or require masks indoors again, whether you care about the unvaccinated or not.

I understand the resistance to going back to masking, but honestly, the cat is out of the bag - again.

Here in San Diego County the case rate is almost 10x higher than it was a month ago and there are 3-4x as many people in the hospital. Given that the vaccination rate has not changed significantly in the last month, I would not be surprised to see hospitals filling up again in the next 2-6 weeks, unless we can reduce the rate of COVID infections.

Honestly, I’ve never stopped wearing a mask indoors nor did I stop social distancing after being fully vaccinated. And I’m likely to continue for the foreseeable future; it’s really not a big deal for me. I was born for pandemic conditions.

Most people I know/hang with have also continued being overly cautious even while being fully vaccinated. It’s as much a habit now as anything, but in the backs of all our minds is that we simply aren’t interested in getting it at all and potentially being a long hauler.

 

[Krugerrand]

Interesting discussion going on here. I wanted to post an update on my wife and document a few things (someone here might find them useful). She's at, I'd say, around 95% recovered after three weeks since her initial exposure.

Saturday 07/10: what we think was her initial exposure to the virus
Sunday: no symptoms
Monday: no symptoms
Tuesday: some sneezing (unusual for her but we'd had a ton of rain and mildew/mold was everywhere)
Wednesday: minor sneezing
Thursday: no sneezing, felt fine
Friday: went to work, different symptoms (fatigue, aches and pains) rapidly progressed and she left around noon (went straight to bed)
Saturday: in bed the whole day, wiped out, bad headache (I took her to CVS for a test)
Sunday: started losing her senses of taste and smell, headache
Monday: taste and smell totally gone

At three weeks, the remaining symptoms are, in order of severity: loss of taste+smell, occasional headaches, and more easily fatigued. The loss of taste+smell is still significant. She can barely taste anything. We had some buffalo wings the other day that made my head sweat and she couldn't taste anything. She says it's gradually improving, so that's good.

I still don't understand why I wasn't infected (at least, to a detectable degree). I was massively exposed multiple times during that week. I didn't isolate her from me at all (e.g. we slept in the same bed every night with the exception of one). We had the same vaccine, Pfizer, back in March/April. We went together, so it was the exact same time and batch. It's my understanding that the mRNA vaccines are pretty "narrow" which means our immune systems were sensitized to the same narrow irritant.

Out of curiosity, did you both experience the same level of side effects when you got vaccinated or did your reactions to the vaccine differ? Is your wife typically more prone to illness in general?

 

[Krugerrand]

Darwin award

Business Insider: Conservative radio host who downplayed vaccines is on an oxygen machine.

A conservative radio host who downplayed vaccines on his show is on an oxygen machine after a severe COVID-19 infection

Phil Valentine has previously said the only people who should get a COVID-19 vaccine are those with "underlying health issues."

www.businessinsider.com

No, that’s called Karma.

 

[Krugerrand]

Allct

Yeah it is bad. And as much as people may want to blame the unvaccinated, I am fairly sure there are a large group of unvaccinated who are not because no one has talked to them, they are not easily reached, they fear side effects keeping them out of work for a day or two, etc. Just people who are disadvantaged or lack good information in one way or another. Obviously there are the hard anti-vaxxer group as well, but I suspect that group may be smaller than the other group.

So saying there is nothing to be done is definitely a weak response.

It was really frustrating in May and June to see no sustained outreach to these communities, as I said here. Outreach has tremendously high ROI.

The lack of early mandates was also super weak and shortsighted. Mandates = liberty! At least we are seeing them now.

All they’d have to do is put together mobile units and have them driven to these communities by ‘celebrity’ types whom these people look up to. Draw a crowd with the celeb, have the celeb educate, vaccinate. See you in a few weeks.

 

[jerry33]

Allct

All they’d have to do is put together mobile units and have them driven to these communities by ‘celebrity’ types whom these people look up to. Draw a crowd with the celeb, have the celeb educate, vaccinate. See you in a few weeks.

That would require both action and empathy. They won't do anything until the groups they care about are affected.

 

[Krugerrand]

That would require both action and empathy. They won't do anything until the groups they care about are affected.

No argument there. I’m just gobsmacked that it’s often being presented as some insurmountable problem. How do we reach these people? Oh, woe is me.

It’s really, really easy to influence people, even stubborn people. You just have to find out what’s important to them, what/who they admire/respect and use that to advantage. Then show up with free vaccines and whatever else (food, money, clothes, empathy, understanding, education, etc…) that they might need.

 

[jerry33]

No argument there. I’m just gobsmacked that it’s often being presented as some insurmountable problem. How do we reach these people? Oh, woe is me.

It’s really, really easy to influence people, even stubborn people. You just have to find out what’s important to them, what/who they admire/respect and use that to advantage. Then show up with free vaccines and whatever else (food, money, clothes, empathy, understanding, education, etc…) that they might need.

If you are rich enough and don't have to rely on politicians or their hand picked appointees, the second part is really easy.

 

[madodel]

My wife just came home. Now half the patients in the ICU are COVID, unvaccinated on vents. One died yesterday and one was sent to a major university hospital for a lung transplant. What upsets her the most is she saw a patient today who was only in his 40's with no risk factors who had been vaccinated 6 months ago and last week got really sick and turned out was COVID + with major clotting in the spleen and kidney. He had no COVID symptoms just extreme abdominal pain. My wife is telling me we are taking aspirin daily starting now. He was actually lucky that the clots went down instead of up so he has no neural deficit. Anyone know of any studies on aspirin preventing COVID thrombus?

 

[madodel]

Allct

All they’d have to do is put together mobile units and have them driven to these communities by ‘celebrity’ types whom these people look up to. Draw a crowd with the celeb, have the celeb educate, vaccinate. See you in a few weeks.

That takes effort and money. Ths county really doesn't do effort and it definitely doesn't do money.

 

[FoverM]

Out of curiosity, did you both experience the same level of side effects when you got vaccinated or did your reactions to the vaccine differ? Is your wife typically more prone to illness in general?

My side effects from the vaccine shots were the same: a quarter-sized area around the site that felt bruised. Lasted a day or so.
Wife's side effects were different: nothing on the first shot and a little soreness on the second shot.

I don't think she's more prone to illness. She did suffer from significant arthritis in her twenties and early thirties (until our only successful pregnancy, then it went away).