Coronavirus

[JRP3]

Because I have family in this camp, we talk. I doubt you have many conversations with the "opposite camp".

Literally, the flip flop pushed people that were more moderate off on vaccines.

"Moderates" that easily swayed by the opposite side are a minority. If they are that easily influenced then the obvious numbers of "their" side dying from covid should have pushed them back. "We hate Dems, but they questioned the vaccines so we believed them, but we'll ignore all the data". Those aren't rational or "moderate" individuals.

 

[JRP3]

You really shouldn’t give away free rent after SCOTUS said you don’t have to.

He was the president at that time, what name should I have used?

 

[bkp_duke]

"Moderates" that easily swayed by the opposite side are a minority. If they are that easily influenced then the obvious numbers of "their" side dying from covid should have pushed them back. "We hate Dems, but they questioned the vaccines so we believed them, but we'll ignore all the data". Those aren't rational or "moderate" individuals.

We're done. You won't listen to anyone outside of your echo chamber. Despite I'm telling you what I see day to day and hear from people. Mind you some of these people have been democratic voters in the deep south for decades (old dems, as they call themselves).

You seem to like to label people and pass judgement, keep doing that, instead of sticking to quantitative facts. LITERALLY present you with left-leaning news articles to support my observation, and you don't want to hear it. Who's not rational?

 

[ElectricIAC]

Those aren't rational or "moderate" individuals.

I take it people are just 1’s and 0’s to you by your way of speaking.

 

[JRP3]

We're done. You won't listen to anyone outside of your echo chamber. Despite I'm telling you what I see day to day and hear from people. Mind you some of these people have been democratic voters in the deep south for decades (old dems, as they call themselves).

You seem to like to label people and pass judgement, keep doing that, instead of sticking to quantitative facts. LITERALLY present you with left-leaning news articles to support my observation, and you don't want to hear it. Who's not rational?

The articles don't prove anything, the NYT article discusses the rational concerns already discussed, and the "left leaning" Hill article is an opinion piece written by a conservative, a Fox contributor and member of the conservative National Review Institute. Who's not rational?

 

[SO16]

Regardless of which party is to blame, we should be beyond the point of where that matters based on what we know about the Covid situation.

I don’t see how any rational person deciding on the shot could still be influenced by US political parties when this Covid situation is not limited to the US only.

 

[ElectricIAC]

He was the president at that time, what name should I have used?

I’m sure you have some ideas on that.

I’ll leave it at this, Donald was set up to fail by his desire to be liked and didn’t raise a firm hand on several occasions when we needed him to last year which is what lost my confidence and vote as classical liberal.

Enter the current group attempting to overcompensate when it is no longer called for, and in fact is making the tailspin worse.

 

[CatB]

Literally, I quoted DEM publications above. The Dems made the mistake of associating the scientific institutions (CDC, NIH, etc) with the Trump administration. They should have attacked Trump, but not those institutions and their validity. They made a critical error in eroding confidence in those health institutions, and now them and all of us are paying the price for that hyper political move.

Given how Trump stifled, embarrassed, shocked, contradicted and then effectively gagged Birx and Fauci, there was ample reason not to trust those agencies while they were under Trump’s control.

Blame belongs with the guy who suggested injecting bleach or taking hydrochloriquine.

 

[shinytop]

Or said there was one case in the country or said there were 15 cases and they would be well shortly or said that it would be gone by Apr 1st. Or said there would be a Rep health care plan shortly ... for four years of his party controlling Congress. Or said his inauguration crowd was the largest ever. Or subjected over 500 people to Covid exposure after he failed a test. There is a man to trust, no doubt.

 

[madodel]

Or said there was one case in the country or said there were 15 cases and they would be well shortly or said that it would be gone by Apr 1st. Or said there would be a Rep health care plan shortly ... for four years of his party controlling Congress. Or said his inauguration crowd was the largest ever. Or subjected over 500 people to Covid exposure after he failed a test. There is a man to trust, no doubt.

More of the same, but the Trump administration refused to allow cruise ships with US passengers with COVID symptoms to dock in US ports. They blocked all non-US citizens from China, but allowed US citizens in without any quarantine requirements. Along the same lines, passengers arriving on international flights were not quarantined or at least checked for signs of illness. A month or so back I posted about the 60 Minutes show on the clown show of the the CDC response team showing up at an airport to check people who had been passengers on a Mediterranean cruise where several had tested positive for COVID.

Even as late as the end of March, 2020 it was impossible to get a COVID test anywhere outside of a hospital in the US. The CDC refused to use the working WHO COVID test and instead developed one that was completely unreliable and took precious months to get working. The federal government didn't replenish the Emergency PPE stockpile despite warnings in 2017 that the supplies were extremely depleted from several national emergencies. And they discarded the NSC pandemic response playbook which would have mitigated some of the above. To say that the many rightwing folks were made hesitant because of left leaning press stating facts is just incomprehensible. And yet having the vaccine program promoted by the narcissistic criminal psychopath oddly didn't dissuade the majority of progressives, liberals, moderates, conservatives and socialists from getting vaccinated. Mostly the extreme fringe right and their equally insane fringe left wing compatriots are basing their decisions on propaganda against vaccination. Apparently hatred for all government is a major deciding factor in who is still dying from COVID.

 

[Double-O]

The amount of commercial ads being circulated on the radio is alarming. Every commercial break, you're guaranteed to hear an ad promoting the vaccine. Gotta reach the masses one way or another.

"Festivals, football...some say fall is the best season of the year. It's also a great time to get vaccinated. Brought to you by pfizer and biontech."

With soothing sounds playing in the background of the ad, it almost reminds of other commercials promoting some medicine that helps one thing but is forced to disclose 10 possible side effects in the process. Then again, those are TV ads which are mandated to disclose possible side effects.

 

[msm859]

This is a bit one-sided. If you look up old videos, the DEM party made vaccines an issue before Biden took office, with many MANY politicians saying they could not trust the current vaccines just because the Trump administration was involved.

Sorry, but both parties are guilty of hyperpoliticization in the "recent past".

Here is the problem with dismissing my comment as one -sided. It is very dangerous to continue to dismiss things and say "both sides do it." Although as you point out there may be some truth to it, it ignores the degrees. All politicians lie - Clinton lied about getting a blow job. Trump lied about virtually everything - most concerning perhaps secrets to the Russians. It is a false equivalency. Did the Democrats have some initial concerns - yes. Was it politics - maybe. But who with a brain would trust ANYTHING Trump said. When people simply say both sides lie, it is an excuse to not continue with any critical analysis of what is specifically being promoted. Democrats are rank amateurs compared to the GOP in trying to lie, cheat and hypocrisy. Sadly too many people today fall prey to a cults. Trumpsters today are a cult and the GOP has fully embraced him and January 6 has shown this experiment - Democracy - is far more vulnerable then most would have imagined. Look how few GOP are willing to speak the truth.

 

[ElectricIAC]

Here is the problem with dismissing my comment as one -sided. It is very dangerous to continue to dismiss things and say "both sides do it." Although as you point out there may be some truth to it, it ignores the degrees. All politicians lie - Clinton lied about getting a blow job. Trump lied about virtually everything - most concerning perhaps secrets to the Russians. It is a false equivalency. Did the Democrats have some initial concerns - yes. Was it politics - maybe. But who with a brain would trust ANYTHING Trump said. When people simply say both sides lie, it is an excuse to not continue with any critical analysis of what is specifically being promoted. Democrats are rank amateurs compared to the GOP in trying to lie, cheat and hypocrisy. Sadly too many people today fall prey to a cults. Trumpsters today are a cult and the GOP has fully embraced him and January 6 has shown this experiment - Democracy - is far more vulnerable then most would have imagined. Look how few GOP are willing to speak the truth.

You really should tag CNN/MSNBC when you lift articles verbatim from them.

 

[jjrandorin]

(Moderator note)

Re: Re : Re surfacing this quote again, since once again people are starting to report things from this thread:

Unlike the rest of TMC, this thread is not moderated with the exception of things that would be "bannable offenses", and the quote I made above previously still applies.

 

[wdolson]

it was a bit difficult when the _leaders_ of the trump admin were not the most believable, including his personal doc and folks knew their veracity was quite questionable.
always tell the truth straight up, no matter how unpalatable, and they would have been trusted "magically go away"
trumps doctor, very professional and the epitomy of the picture of health, completely trustworthy
(is that a Windows 98 or Windows XP screen on the display, ie, no security updates for a very long time)

That picture is from 2015 or 2016 and the screen looks like Windows 7. He might be using a utility like Open Shell that makes newer Windows look like older OSs for those who don't like the new gadgets. I've used Open Shell and it's predecessor for more than 10 years. I do note that his printer in the lower right hand corner is an HP Laserjet from the 90s. Those things were tanks and hard to kill, but they were getting pretty old by 2015.

 

[daniel]

One thing I have trouble comprehending: Trump got vaccinated and told his followers to get vaccinated, and he claimed credit for developing the vaccine.

So why are so many Trumpers anti-vax?

 

[bkp_duke]

One thing I have trouble comprehending: Trump got vaccinated and told his followers to get vaccinated, and he claimed credit for developing the vaccine.

So why are so many Trumpers anti-vax?

EXCELLENT question. It's not like Trump told people not to go get vaccinated.

My executive assistant's father recently passed from COVID, and he was unvaccinated. I tried to gently ask questions as to why he and his wife refused the vaccine, but the family was pretty tight lipped and it wasn't really a good time to discuss it in detail (raw wound of patriarch of the family passing is not when you bring up things that even have a hint of "I told you so"). The only thing definitively that they said was that they don't believe the government should be allowed to force them into vaccination. They didn't really question the science, or anything like that. They just didn't want to be told they HAD to do it.

 

[ElectricIAC]

One thing I have trouble comprehending: Trump got vaccinated and told his followers to get vaccinated, and he claimed credit for developing the vaccine.

So why are so many Trumpers anti-vax?

You are assuming people are just 1’s and 0’s like another poster in this thread.

I know just as many Blue No Matter Who voters who will not get the jab “Because it was rushed” as I know independents, ancaps and conservatives who just do not like being told what to do by The Man.

 

[winfield100]

Same when the LEADERS of the Biden admin voiced skepticism of the vaccine. Both Biden and Harris are on video record during their campaign stating they (paraphrased) would have trouble promoting any vaccine developed by the Trump administration.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/biden-trump-coronavirus-vaccine/2020/09/16/2ffbea6a-f831-11ea-a275-1a2c2d36e1f1_story.html

Biden, Seizing on Worries of a Rushed Vaccine, Warns Trump Can’t Be Trusted (Published 2020)

Thrusting the issue of a coronavirus vaccine to the center of the campaign, Joe Biden said he trusted vaccines, but not a politicized development process. His comments came as the president publicly rebuked the top federal scientist.

www.nytimes.com

Guess who undermined public confidence in vaccines?

The Biden administration is trying to shift blame to social media for the predictable effects of its own demagoguery.

thehill.com

Then, the instant they were in office, the message did a 180.

Sorry, but both parties are culpable in the current mess. No one gets a pass. The Biden admin has at least been firm in their stance SINCE taking office, but they used the vaccine development process as a political weapon against the Trump admin before the election, and that really makes it hard for supporters of the previous administration to trust them on this message.

More importantly, this entire situation has made the job of physicians that much more difficult. I have a lot of colleagues retiring early, or strongly considering doing so, just because of how the pandemic/vaccines/healthcare have become so political. They no longer feel valued and are tired of getting drawn into political arguments.

if i may point out, one of the very first “180’s” was done by the previous administration,
internally they knew how bad it was, stated 180 opposite from that, clown shows of drinking bleach, doing rectal cleanses of the virus with UV lower GI, promoted veterinary medicine as cures, refusing cruise ships landing due to total covid numbers making the previous administration look bad, etc.

it was patently obvious the previous administration could not be trusted in most anything, so protestations that the biden administration did a 180 is quite a weak argument.

 

[ElectricIAC]

if i may point out, one of the very first “180’s” was done by the previous administration,
internally they knew how bad it was, stated 180 opposite from that, clown shows of drinking bleach, doing rectal cleanses of the virus with UV lower GI, promoted veterinary medicine as cures, refusing cruise ships landing due to total covid numbers making the previous administration look bad, etc.

it was patently obvious the previous administration could not be trusted in most anything, so protestations that the biden administration did a 180 is quite a weak argument.

Are you saying it’s (D)ifferent?