Coronavirus

[Double-O]

Generally speaking, i agree with you.

Personally, i don't care that a vaccine mandate was in the works before it got denied. It wouldn't have applied to my day to day so it wouldn't have made any difference for me. Again, my main gripe is the value of a vaxx card.

Instead of just accepting a card to get into places like an arena, concert, etc.. they should ONLY accept testing on the spot. This would allow for people to take part in those activities without any worry and there would be no spread. Vaxx may reduce chance of spread but you can still spread. I don't know if you've seen or been to any games or concerts but majority of people do not wear masks once inside and there's no such thing as social distancing. Asymptomatic individual could bring it into the venue and have it spread to others who then take it home with them and put others at risk. This obviously happens since vaxxed individuals get covid and pass it to their significant other and/or kids. Maybe Asymptomatic or mild symptoms but still covid+. These individuals would never get the blame the way unvaxxed do, even if they're negative or recovered from prior infection.

Having a vaxx card shouldn't be treated equally everywhere but unfortunately, it is.

 

[ohmman]

Having a vaxx card shouldn't be treated equally everywhere but unfortunately, it is.

I agree it's not equivalent, but I don't think that's the point. The point is that mass testing is much more difficult, time consuming, and costly than using vaccination as a proxy for lowered risk. It's a logistical decision based on statistics, not a catch-all.

 

[Daniel in SD]

Generally speaking, i agree with you.

Personally, i don't care that a vaccine mandate was in the works before it got denied. It wouldn't have applied to my day to day so it wouldn't have made any difference for me. Again, my main gripe is the value of a vaxx card.

Instead of just accepting a card to get into places like an arena, concert, etc.. they should ONLY accept testing on the spot. This would allow for people to take part in those activities without any worry and there would be no spread. Vaxx may reduce chance of spread but you can still spread. I don't know if you've seen or been to any games or concerts but majority of people do not wear masks once inside and there's no such thing as social distancing. Asymptomatic individual could bring it into the venue and have it spread to others who then take it home with them and put others at risk. This obviously happens since vaxxed individuals get covid and pass it to their significant other and/or kids. Maybe Asymptomatic or mild symptoms but still covid+. These individuals would never get the blame the way unvaxxed do, even if they're negative or recovered from prior infection.

Having a vaxx card shouldn't be treated equally everywhere but unfortunately, it is.

How much does testing reduces transmission, hospitalization and death? And of course for it to work you would have to do it forever.
You seem to be ignoring that the obvious purpose of vaccine mandates is to increase the vaccination rate in a way that's politically popular and low cost.

 

[nwdiver]

 

[madodel]

How much does testing reduces transmission, hospitalization and death? And of course for it to work you would have to do it forever.
You seem to be ignoring that the obvious purpose of vaccine mandates is to increase the vaccination rate in a way that's politically popular and low cost.

We will be through this finally when almost no one bothers to test for COVID any more because it's not something to fear the consequences of any more. Like visiting your elderly parent(s) in a nursing home or Adult living place.

But testing has a place for the time being in preventing spread by positive cases self-quarantining.

 

[EVNow]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1489261814277758980

 

[madodel]

Coronavirus: Impact on Hospitals

February 10 - 3:00 p.m. ET​

Alaska’s chief medical examiner Anne Zink, MD and Shereef Elnahal, MD, CEO of the University Hospital in Newark, discuss the coronavirus pandemic’s continued strain on hospital and state health systems.

 

[FloridaSun]

I will make the morale argument. If you are a Christian you should get vaccinated. That is what Jesus would say. The Pope said it is a moral obligation for everyone to get vaccinated. He is correct. Part of living in a civil society is the social compact. Sometimes we have to do things for the good of all. The only reason we are talking about "mandates" is sadly there are too many selfish and ignorant people. Health insurance should no longer cover treatment for unvaccinated people. The unvaccinated should not be allowed on planes or trains. The math and science is unequivocal. We have been too timid for too long.

Nobody should be required to have the vaccine, period! As I said before, I'm vaccinated and my wife is vaccinated and I got COVID from my vaccinated wife. While the vaccination certainly reduce risk of severe disease or death DRAMATICALLY, it does not seem to affect infections and spreading of the virus. I've posted this before. Most of our friends are vaccinated and virtually all of them had COVID after being vaccinated. Couples gave the virus to each other, even those who were asymptomatic. I'm 100% asymptomatic but did a PCR test today to see if I still have the virus. My wife did her 2nd PCR test 9 days after her first positive test and she is still positive after 9 days. She has very mild symptoms and I still got none after 6 days since I tested positive.
The protection of these vaccines is incredible and everyone should have them. However, I do not support forcing people protect them from their own actions. I don't buy the argument for a moment that the unvaccinated are endangering the vaccinated. Now that hospital bed shortage is no longer common, all that the unvaccinated are doing is risking their life and health.

 

[Double-O]

Nobody should be required to have the vaccine, period! As I said before, I'm vaccinated and my wife is vaccinated and I got COVID from my vaccinated wife. While the vaccination certainly reduce risk of severe disease or death DRAMATICALLY, it does not seem to affect infections and spreading of the virus. I've posted this before. Most of our friends are vaccinated and virtually all of them had COVID after being vaccinated. Couples gave the virus to each other, even those who were asymptomatic. I'm 100% asymptomatic but did a PCR test today to see if I still have the virus. My wife did her 2nd PCR test 9 days after her first positive test and she is still positive after 9 days. She has very mild symptoms and I still got none after 6 days since I tested positive.
The protection of these vaccines is incredible and everyone should have them. However, I do not support forcing people protect them from their own actions. I don't buy the argument for a moment that the unvaccinated are endangering the vaccinated. Now that hospital bed shortage is no longer common, all that the unvaccinated are doing is risking their life and health.

Unvaxxed were never really the cause of spread. They were just the most convenient to blame.

All this info just falls on deaf ears..... or in this case, blind eyes. Vaxxed can keep blaming the unvaxxed though. It'll get them somewhere..... just not in reality.

 

[nwdiver]

I don't buy the argument for a moment that the unvaccinated are endangering the vaccinated.

So... if I get hit by a drunk driver and need an ICU bed but they're all full of unvaccinated idiots are they going to triage the one least likely to survive so I can have a bed?

 

[FloridaSun]

So... if I get hit by a drunk driver and need an ICU bed but they're all full of unvaccinated idiots are they going to triage the one least likely to survive so I can have a bed?

This scenario has become very rare at this point and keeps decreasing.
One issue with the health system is that they are understaffed because they fired too many nurses for being unvaccinated

 

[Yuri_G]

Unvaxxed were never really the cause of spread. They were just the most convenient to blame.

All this info just falls on deaf ears..... or in this case, blind eyes. Vaxxed can keep blaming the unvaxxed though. It'll get them somewhere..... just not in reality.

Completely false and deluded statement. The unvaccinated are far more likely to die, be hospitalized, and catch covid. That's what vaccine efficacy means.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1489622202546679809

 

[nwdiver]

This scenario has become very rare at this point and keeps decreasing.
One issue with the health system is that they are understaffed because they fired too many nurses for being unvaccinated

How many nurses are alive and working because of the mandate? Is an unvaccinated nurse that dies of COVID any more useful than one that quits?

The conditions of hospital strain during July 2020–July 2021, which included the presence of SARS-CoV-2 B.1.617.2 (Delta) variant, predicted that intensive care unit bed use at 75% capacity is associated with an estimated additional 12,000 excess deaths 2 weeks later. As hospitals exceed 100% ICU bed capacity, 80,000 excess deaths would be expected 2 weeks later.

 

[Yuri_G]

This scenario has become very rare at this point and keeps decreasing.
One issue with the health system is that they are understaffed because they fired too many nurses for being unvaccinated

Like Duke firing 0.08% of their staff for not being vaccinated?

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.newsobserver.com/news/local/article254610982.html

 

[FloridaSun]

How many nurses are alive and working because of the mandate? Is an unvaccinated nurse that dies of COVID any more useful than one that quits?

The conditions of hospital strain during July 2020–July 2021, which included the presence of SARS-CoV-2 B.1.617.2 (Delta) variant, predicted that intensive care unit bed use at 75% capacity is associated with an estimated additional 12,000 excess deaths 2 weeks later. As hospitals exceed 100% ICU bed capacity, 80,000 excess deaths would be expected 2 weeks later.

It should be the choice of the nurses if they take the risk. As I said, vaccinated or unvaccinated people can spread it, so, the only one they are putting at risk are themselves. BTW, we are no longer in the summer of 2021. The issue with hospital beds is getting much better.. More and more people are either vaccinated or have obtained immunity via infection..

 

[nwdiver]

It should be the choice of the nurses if they take the risk. As I said, vaccinated or unvaccinated people can spread it, so, the only one they are putting at risk are themselves. BTW, we are no longer in the summer of 2021. The issue with hospital beds is getting much better.. More and more people are either vaccinated or have obtained immunity via infection..

And what of the hospitals responsibility to maintain a healthy workforce? Should Flu shots not be mandatory? Measles? Where's the line?

And.... you mean it's not 2 weeks ago? Hospitalizations are still much higher than over the summer....

 

[wdolson]

This is a bit of a tangent, but I thought it provided some perspective on where we are now. This is a history podcast I've been listening to for a few months and they covered the history of disease in a two parter. There was some interesting things about that history, as well as the human immune system I didn't know.

146. Disease vs. the rise of civilisation – The Rest Is History – Podcast

Humans have more infectious diseases than any other animal. And before 1900 infectious disease killed more humans than other causes of death. Around 1900 the balance began to flip and death from other causes began to become the primary killers.

It's unknown why humans are so susceptible to infectious diseases. Personally I think it's because of the very narrow genetic diversity among the human race. Humanity is very inbred compared to most other animals.

Anyway, it isn't COVID specific, but I found the history of infectious diseases in humanity to be an interesting sidebar to the COVID pandemic.

 

[msm859]

Unvaxxed were never really the cause of spread. They were just the most convenient to blame.

All this info just falls on deaf ears..... or in this case, blind eyes. Vaxxed can keep blaming the unvaxxed though. It'll get them somewhere..... just not in reality.

Before Omicron, the Vaccines were doing extremely well stopping the spread. Breakthrough cases were rare. The more people unvaccinated increases the chance for more mutations. And will continue to do so. And why should I get sick at all because some people are too stupid and selfish to live in a civilization and not do their part to stop a highly communicable disease? And why should I have to pay for all the medical expenses for those stupid selfish people. Go to ANY hospitable in this country who are in the ICU units being treated for Covid - the unvaccinated about 20 to 1. My insurance rates are going to go up because of that. People have in FACT died because beds were not available because the ICU's were full of unvaccinated Covid cases. What is an acceptable number of innocent deaths? The "unvaccinated" have become obsessed against "mandates" so much that they are incapable of making an intelligent argument of why they actually do not want to be vaccinated. The "principle" has become a life of its own. Sorry, but the "reality" is there is NO good reason not to get vaccinated for @99.99% of the population. Idiocracy here we are.

 

[JRP3]

A look at the 1918 flu. Hopefully we fare better this time.

The 1918 flu lasted far beyond 1918. Two years after it began, just as officials such as Copeland were declaring victory and cities were easing restrictions, a fourth wave hit parts of the country, bringing punishing caseloads that pushed some hospitals to the brink of collapse and left many more Americans dead.

The 1918 flu didn't end in 1918. Here's what its third year can teach us.

In New York City in 1920 - nearly two years into a deadly influenza epidemic that would claim at least 50 million lives worldwide - the new year began on a bright note. "Best Health Report for City in 53 Years," boasted a headline in the New York Times on Jan. 4, 1920, after New York had...

www.yahoo.com

 

[Unpilot]

What data is there showing infection rate due to Omicron for Vac vs unvac?
I keep hearing that being vac. Makes little difference whether one gets the Omicron variant VS someone unvac?

Sorry for the poor phrasing.
Hope my question is clear enough.



edit to say I found this

CDC: Unvaccinated adults 3-5 times more likely to get omicron infection | AHA News

According to data from 25 state and local health departments, adults who were unvaccinated against COVID-19 as the omicron variant emerged in December had nearly three times higher risk of infection than adults fully vaccinated against COVID-19 and five times higher risk than adults who had...

www.aha.org