Cost driving electric

[pgwoosley]

Found on another board:

"Okay guys, the facts are in.

After owning my two electric cars for one PG&E month now, I can tell
you that my use of them has pushed my bill to where I have gone from
.23 cents per KWH to 31 cents.

My bill has gone up by $100 and that is entirely due to driving my
"around town" miles in one of two alternating electric cars.

I just listened to several You Tube clips whereas one "voice over"
claimed TWO CENTS per KWH which they claimed saved a lot of dollars
over gas prices.

My $100 got me 600 miles of town driving in one month. Now then, say
a car gets 20 mpg in the city at $4.75 per gallon, those 600 miles
would cost $142.50 so I save $42.50 by buying a new electric car.

How many years will it take me to break even?

Oh yes, I forgot, must figure in the cost of batteries too..........

And if you think TIME OF USE METERING would save me money you have
another think coming. My bill would have been substantially higher
had I had one.

[Note that electric rates in some areas go up dramatically with the amount that you use.]

 

[vfx]

This has to be a fake. Someone actually owns TWO electric cars? Even if I were to believe that farfetched premise AND that they drove them singlarly for a month (no gas at all) that much then, what about the PGE discount for EVs? The cost should have gone DOWN not up.

And again, what kind of person who buys TWO EVs and be griping about the cost of electicity. There are many reasons to buy EVs and someone who has invested that much in the Green-ness of that world surely has more interest than the price of gas (or oil, or filters, sparkplugs, brakes etc.). They are as much going to be about all the other reasons to get off oil.

I missed it. Did he charge at night when rates are cheaper?

Wait! What about that math where he calculates the gas mileage of one car but compares that total to the two Evs on his PGE bill.

Me thinks something is fishy here...

 

[stopcrazypp]

@pgwoosley
I would like to know what board this is, so I can see the story, I'm interested.

This has to be a fake. Someone actually owns TWO electric cars? Even if I were to believe that farfetched premise AND that they drove them singlarly for a month (no gas at all) that much then, what about the PGE discount for EVs? The cost should have gone DOWN not up.

First of all at least the rate numbers weren't total BS:
Here's the price for PG&E:

Total Energy Rates ($ per kWh)
Baseline Usage $0.11559 (I)
101% - 130% of Baseline $0.13142 (I)
131% - 200% of Baseline $0.22580 (R)
201% - 300% of Baseline $0.31304 |​

Over 300% of Baseline $0.35876 (R)

He was probably already 131%-200% of baseline (23 cents) and the 2 EVs popped him over 201%-300% (31 cents). But anyone can find those numbers online so...

Another thing is if he made a purchasing decision without even calculating this, then it's his fault. He has all the numbers already, and he should know what it will cost him to run 2 EVs before he bought them. If he is already 2 levels over baseline then it probably wasn't smart to buy two EVs anyways. Who knows how much he spent on the EVs either.

Based on his $100 cost and 31 cents/kWh max energy cost, he bought at LEAST 323kWh of energy. He went 600 miles on it. That's 538Wh/mile for plug-to-wheel efficiency. That's horrible for an EV even taking into account all charging inefficiencies. That's about half of what the Tesla Roadster gets. It translates to about 63 mpg equivalent and that's not much better than a hybrid.

So either the guy got duped and bought two (relative to common EVs) horribly inefficient EVs (or the charger is inefficient or it's not in good shape) or he's a fake.

Regardless of it being a fake or not, he does bring up a good point about the metering, b/c most people aren't rated for peak/offpeak usage, so there is no cost benefit for charging overnight. However, if you sign up for rating based on peak/offpeak usage the rates are usually higher for the peak side. So if you use electricity mostly on peak, then it's not to your advantage to use this type. If more EVs get adopted, I bet there will be better metering schemes to cater to EV users, esp if V2G or smart charging gets implemented. Solar panel users already have such special metering schemes.


I suppose a warning should be put for people who are a few levels above baseline that driving an EV could cost significantly more than for other people because you end up paying energy rates that are a couple times more than baseline, which is the number that most cost estimates for EVs use (some even use offpeak rates, which are even lower).

 

[vfx]

PGE links
scroll down to Electric Vehicle Charging Rate and Economics
Electric Vehicles

The E-9 rate is for EV chargers.

PDF of it here:
http://www.pge.com/tariffs/tm2/pdf/ELEC_SCHEDS_E-9.pdf


Tangentally related stuff.

July 2007 Bill Inserts

http://www.pge.com/includes/docs/pdfs/about/rates/rateinfo/rateoptions/res/e-9.pdf

 

[Chris H.]

Whoever this person is, he/she would have been much smarter to buy one EV and a PV solar array to offset their increased electricity usage, than to buy two EVs. At this point in the evolution of EVs I would think that if you need two cars, then one should still be a fuel efficient ICE vehicle such as a Honda Civic, Toyota Corolla (or Yaris) or a Mazda 3.

Oh well, live and learn, I guess...

PG, I would also be interested to know the source of this post. :smile:

All the best,

Chris H.

 

[pgwoosley]

Followup post from the same source - Arcane_autos : Arcane Autos

"Found this info on EV electricity rates on the PG&E website (as I'm in
the midst of planning an EV conversion myself):

http://www.pge.com/tariffs/pdf/E-9.pdf

"It spells out applicable rates for charging an EV, what peak/off-peak
hours are, etc. Very informative!

"Not sure about your assertion that recharging MUST begin immediately
after use, but if you could charge after midnight, the rate drops to 5 cents/kwh, up to 130% of baseline, then 12 cents up to 200%. Of course, this change also moves your "normal" summer evening activities (watching TV, cooking dinner, etc.) into peak hours, as they last until 9pm in the summer (but no peak hours in winter at all).

"So, you'd have to do the calculations for your own personal situation
to see if it made sense to switch."

<End of Quote.>

I am just the messenger.
pg

 

[pgwoosley]

@pgwoosley
I would like to know what board this is, so I can see the story, I'm interested.

.[/SIZE][/FONT]

Arcane_autos : Arcane Autos

 

[stopcrazypp]

PGE links
scroll down to Electric Vehicle Charging Rate and Economics
Electric Vehicles

The E-9 rate is for EV chargers.

PDF of it here:
http://www.pge.com/tariffs/tm2/pdf/ELEC_SCHEDS_E-9.pdf


Tangentally related stuff.

July 2007 Bill Inserts

http://www.pge.com/includes/docs/pdfs/about/rates/rateinfo/rateoptions/res/e-9.pdf

This person said "And if you think TIME OF USE METERING would save me money you have another think coming. My bill would have been substantially higher had I had one."

Maybe the person uses a lot of energy during peak hours.
But the site says "E-9 Low-Emission Vehicle Fueling Service. This schedule is required for customers with an electric vehicle and is optional for customers with a natural gas vehicle NGV where an associated home refueling appliance (HRA) has been installed. "

So it seems the plan is required for people with EVs. If the person is just using a standard plug then the power company might not know. That person might benefit from the program and not know it, the rates are MUCH better than your standard time of use metering.

 

[Iz]

Did the person who posted this indicate the make/models of the EV's?

We know from the massive amount of shared information on this site that there are, for all intents and purposes, no mass-produced EV's available - yet. If the information is accurate, the vehicles may be inefficient conversions and at the very least do not look at the long term cost-of-ownership as vfx indicated.

There are many reasons to buy EVs and someone who has invested that much in the Green-ness of that world surely has more interest than the price of gas (or oil, or filters, sparkplugs, brakes etc.). They are as much going to be about all the other reasons to get off oil.